Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Epic Dragon DXO score


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 CheungyDiver

CheungyDiver

    Tiger Shark

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 635 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Lots. I take things apart, modify things and make things.

Posted 03 March 2014 - 06:28 PM

Holy smoke The Epic Dragon just scored DXOmark test score of 101. Higher than nikon d800E. That means for the first time a digital cinema camera is as good as one for digital stills. Sorry Adam I know how much you like your D800. LOL. :)

 

http://www.dxomark.c...r-score-barrier

 

Here is a link for those who are nerdy like me.

 

 

excerp: " The highly configurable RED Epic Dragon is the latest version of the firm’s original Epic-M Digital Still and Motion Camera (DSMC). Although we are more used to analyzing still cameras at DxOMark, we’ve had a unique opportunity to assess RAW output from a prototype using all of our usual industry standard tests. As the results were extraordinary, we thought we would share the findings. Read on to find out how this high-performance sensor performs.

Overall score: Epic Dragon takes first place (101 points)

Dynamic range and color depth: First place in both categories (14.8Ev, 26.5 Bits)

Low Light ISO: 10th place (ISO 2745)

Nikon D800 vs Red Epic Dragon

Specification"

 

 

In Depth Analysis

Conclusion

Edited by CheungyDiver, 03 March 2014 - 08:45 PM.

Proprietor of Scubacam, Singapore. Commercial videocameraman. Also shoot digital stills. I modify and built stuff. I love technology. Camera: Red Epic/ Scarlet and soon Dragon

Email: info@scubacam.com.sg

http://www.scubacam.com.sg/


#2 CheungyDiver

CheungyDiver

    Tiger Shark

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 635 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Lots. I take things apart, modify things and make things.

Posted 03 March 2014 - 08:50 PM

More to the point is that now with still frames (24fps or higher) taken out of a videocamera can perform or outperform one of the best digital still camera around the era of the convergence between still and video is right here now. Of course the cost is out of of  most people's  pockets except for working professionals.

 

 

note: Low light is still not as good as larger sensor like the D800 or 5D MIII

 

 

Cheers

David


Proprietor of Scubacam, Singapore. Commercial videocameraman. Also shoot digital stills. I modify and built stuff. I love technology. Camera: Red Epic/ Scarlet and soon Dragon

Email: info@scubacam.com.sg

http://www.scubacam.com.sg/


#3 jonny shaw

jonny shaw

    Orca

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1318 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney

Posted 03 March 2014 - 09:16 PM

Pretty cool actually, would love to see an Alexa and BMC get tested

www.ginclearfilm.com
www.facebook.com/ginclearfilm
GATES DEEP EPIC Based in Sydney


#4 CheungyDiver

CheungyDiver

    Tiger Shark

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 635 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Lots. I take things apart, modify things and make things.

Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:58 AM

Well the form factor of the Alexa will not be as portable for digital stills as the Dragon. Not only that 2K raw may not be enough for professional photography. Same goes for taking stills from the BMC. What the DXo mark test did is for testing digital stills. It is quite astonishing to find a camera that outguns FPS digital stills and provide a whole lot more in color depth and DR. One achilles heel for the Dragon is the S35 sensor will not have better low light capability of a full frame. 

 

Yes I would love to see all the top end cameras tested. More information and better choice for the client on what system to go for. 

 

Cheers

David


Proprietor of Scubacam, Singapore. Commercial videocameraman. Also shoot digital stills. I modify and built stuff. I love technology. Camera: Red Epic/ Scarlet and soon Dragon

Email: info@scubacam.com.sg

http://www.scubacam.com.sg/


#5 pmooney

pmooney

    Orca

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1232 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cairns Australia
  • Interests:Growing Grapes

Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:44 AM

Here is a link to some fairly interesting testing that John Brawley has just completed.

 

http://johnbrawley.w...way-comparison/

 

Johns niche is high performance storytelling with strong cinema drama - his interest in the F55 / Alexa test is self explanatory , to mix it up he chucked both the 4K and 2.5k BMCC cameras into the mix.

 

It makes for some interesting reading.



#6 Scuba_SI

Scuba_SI

    Great White

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1067 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indonesia
  • Interests:Owner / Photo Dude at NAD-Lembeh.

Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:58 AM

Any news on how it does on blues yet?  :)

 


Nauticam Rossa / 5Dmk3 / A7r / EM-1 / S110

http://vimeo.com/lembehmuckdiver

www.nad-lembeh.com: 2:1 diveguide ratio in an photographer owned / operated resort


#7 CheungyDiver

CheungyDiver

    Tiger Shark

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 635 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Lots. I take things apart, modify things and make things.

Posted 04 March 2014 - 05:44 AM

The last I read is Red is testing different optical low past filters for different shooting situations. The new advance dragon debayer method in the latest red cine-x seems to yield even more dynamic range and details out of the sensor. More depth for colour correcting. The sensor IQ seems to be noiseless at native iso at compression ratio of 5:1. Even at iso 3000 the image is free of noise. I find UW With the Epic anything above iso 1000 noise or grain starts to appear. One colourist in the red forum suggested using some light gel filter. Helps in repairing the missing red channel UW.. Now with extra DR of the dragon there may be a way to find out which colour filter in conjunction with if there is one a special OLPF just for the UW folks. The new debayer program would help too by drawing out as much information out of the sensor as possible. Anyway I will do some tests once my fire-breathing dragon returns home. Cheers David

Proprietor of Scubacam, Singapore. Commercial videocameraman. Also shoot digital stills. I modify and built stuff. I love technology. Camera: Red Epic/ Scarlet and soon Dragon

Email: info@scubacam.com.sg

http://www.scubacam.com.sg/


#8 CheungyDiver

CheungyDiver

    Tiger Shark

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 635 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Lots. I take things apart, modify things and make things.

Posted 04 March 2014 - 05:46 AM

Oh one last thing. My guess is that there is no one OLPF or gel filter for All UW conditions. Likely to be several and each for different water conditions.

Proprietor of Scubacam, Singapore. Commercial videocameraman. Also shoot digital stills. I modify and built stuff. I love technology. Camera: Red Epic/ Scarlet and soon Dragon

Email: info@scubacam.com.sg

http://www.scubacam.com.sg/


#9 thani

thani

    Wolf Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 149 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dubai, UAE
  • Interests:Water

Posted 04 March 2014 - 06:46 PM

Holy smoke The Epic Dragon just scored DXOmark test score of 101. Higher than nikon d800E. That means for the first time a digital cinema camera is as good as one for digital stills. Sorry Adam I know how much you like your D800. LOL. :)

This is really an amazing revolution for a digital cinema camera.

David, did Red had similar problem like the Sony FS100/700 in rendering blue water?
Best Regards,
Thani

#10 CheungyDiver

CheungyDiver

    Tiger Shark

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 635 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Lots. I take things apart, modify things and make things.

Posted 04 March 2014 - 10:22 PM

Not in the same way. It is a lot less problematic compared with the Sony f100 & f700. I personally never had any magenta or red R3d footage break down like the Sony with the Red Epic. I only come across other pro shooters that under certain conditions and location the image has colour cast problem. I think it affects just ambient light not when you bring down lighting. I show with a thin gel filter which addresses the red channel. This way the green and blue is skewed to much to the colour extreme in post. I watch the histogram quite a lot on a dive and just to be sure exposure is not shifting too much into the blacks.

Proprietor of Scubacam, Singapore. Commercial videocameraman. Also shoot digital stills. I modify and built stuff. I love technology. Camera: Red Epic/ Scarlet and soon Dragon

Email: info@scubacam.com.sg

http://www.scubacam.com.sg/


#11 thani

thani

    Wolf Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 149 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dubai, UAE
  • Interests:Water

Posted 05 March 2014 - 02:11 AM

Thanks David & wish you wonderful shooting with your RED dragon :)
Hence videography is only a hobby - a very expensive one - such cameras will always be out of my league :(

But thanks for the new comers like Black Magic Design for pushing the price/value to a new competitive level :)

BTW, I am testing BMPC 4k right now. Done two dives, vis was bad. For such a crude test results are not bad.
Best Regards,
Thani

#12 CheungyDiver

CheungyDiver

    Tiger Shark

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 635 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Lots. I take things apart, modify things and make things.

Posted 05 March 2014 - 04:41 AM

How do you find the low light with the sensor? at what depth before the LCD display becomes too difficult to differentiate details. I dove recently with the BMPCC at Palau. Mixed results. I was shooting raw at 2K. A good friend of mine who is a colorist advise to shoot with film picture style so what I see from the uploaded footage was very washed out. When he ran it through Da vinci resolve I was so surprised to see so much color depth and details could be pulled out from RAW. I would love to learn how the BMCC 4K fare. Oh one thing i find when shooting ambient light is to use a light red filter. The magic filter for video works quite well. What you want to avoid is total lost of the red channel. With 4K raw you can really do a lot to color balance and fix the footage before final edit. I am sure you know that anyways. 

 

regards

 

David


Proprietor of Scubacam, Singapore. Commercial videocameraman. Also shoot digital stills. I modify and built stuff. I love technology. Camera: Red Epic/ Scarlet and soon Dragon

Email: info@scubacam.com.sg

http://www.scubacam.com.sg/


#13 thani

thani

    Wolf Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 149 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dubai, UAE
  • Interests:Water

Posted 05 March 2014 - 05:24 AM

How do you find the low light with the sensor? at what depth before the LCD display becomes too difficult to differentiate details. I dove recently with the BMPCC at Palau. Mixed results. I was shooting raw at 2K. A good friend of mine who is a colorist advise to shoot with film picture style so what I see from the uploaded footage was very washed out. When he ran it through Da vinci resolve I was so surprised to see so much color depth and details could be pulled out from RAW. I would love to learn how the BMCC 4K fare. Oh one thing i find when shooting ambient light is to use a light red filter. The magic filter for video works quite well. What you want to avoid is total lost of the red channel. With 4K raw you can really do a lot to color balance and fix the footage before final edit. I am sure you know that anyways. 
 
regards
 
David


Yes. It is astonishing how much color depth you can get from the 2.5k BMCC RAW. The 4k is still ProRes. Can't wait for the RAW which is a firmware upgrade and I hope it come before summer :). Hence they have already got Pocket version camera shooting lossless compressed RAW. My expectation NAB 2014 should be the optimistic date for 4K Raw:)

BMCC low light performance is really good and the 4K BMPC is not on bar due to Global shutter.

For the monitor in Sultan's housing it is visible all the time hence there is plenty of shade. The trick is to put the display in VIDEO mode and BRIGHTNESS at 100%. The camera will still shoot FILM & Raw.

I will try to post some frame or clip after the weekend :)
Best Regards,
Thani

#14 EspenRekdal

EspenRekdal

    Wolf Eel

  • Industry
  • PipPip
  • 188 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway

Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:42 AM


I will try to post some frame or clip after the weekend :)

Looking forward to this Thani!

 

E.


Nikon D4, D3s, D2x, etc etc.. Nauticam housing, Inon z240s, Subtronic Mega Cs and housed Nikon Sb900s...

#15 jonny shaw

jonny shaw

    Orca

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1318 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney

Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:31 PM

Have you heard anything about your upgrade David? Nothing on my end but I was pretty late in upgrading


www.ginclearfilm.com
www.facebook.com/ginclearfilm
GATES DEEP EPIC Based in Sydney


#16 CheungyDiver

CheungyDiver

    Tiger Shark

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 635 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Lots. I take things apart, modify things and make things.

Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:49 PM

My Red Rep replied after I badgered them with emails. Most likely after NAB.

 

I signed up quite early. My business associate has no less 3 Epics. He wanted to upgrade all three but still nothing. Not even one.. I think Asia or SE Asia is lagging behind....

 

 

cheers

David 


Proprietor of Scubacam, Singapore. Commercial videocameraman. Also shoot digital stills. I modify and built stuff. I love technology. Camera: Red Epic/ Scarlet and soon Dragon

Email: info@scubacam.com.sg

http://www.scubacam.com.sg/


#17 loftus

loftus

    Blue Whale

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4571 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Winter Park, Fl

Posted 13 March 2014 - 04:32 PM

 

Holy smoke The Epic Dragon just scored DXOmark test score of 101. Higher than nikon d800E. That means for the first time a digital cinema camera is as good as one for digital stills. Sorry Adam I know how much you like your D800. LOL. :)

 

http://www.dxomark.c...r-score-barrier

 

Here is a link for those who are nerdy like me.

 

 

excerp: " The highly configurable RED Epic Dragon is the latest version of the firm’s original Epic-M Digital Still and Motion Camera (DSMC). Although we are more used to analyzing still cameras at DxOMark, we’ve had a unique opportunity to assess RAW output from a prototype using all of our usual industry standard tests. As the results were extraordinary, we thought we would share the findings. Read on to find out how this high-performance sensor performs.

 

Overall score: Epic Dragon takes first place (101 points)

 

Dynamic range and color depth: First place in both categories (14.8Ev, 26.5 Bits)

 

Low Light ISO: 10th place (ISO 2745)

 

Nikon D800 vs Red Epic Dragon

 

Specification"

 

 

 

In Depth Analysis

 

Conclusion

 

Impressive yes; one little drawback though - almost 20 x the price of a D800 for a functional system.


Edited by loftus, 13 March 2014 - 04:32 PM.

Nikon D800, Nikon D7000, Nauticam, Inons, Subtronic Novas. Lens collection - 10-17, 15, 16, 16-35, 14-24, 24-70, 85, 18-200, 28-300, 70-200, 60 and 105, TC's. Macs with Aperture and Photoshop.

#18 CheungyDiver

CheungyDiver

    Tiger Shark

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 635 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Lots. I take things apart, modify things and make things.

Posted 13 March 2014 - 05:56 PM

Agreed. Then again no movies will be shot with dslrs with a few exceptions. I own a d800 myself and it is still the go to camera for me for hi-res digital stills. I am only highlighting the dxo mark test not stating the dragon is the only camera to use.

Proprietor of Scubacam, Singapore. Commercial videocameraman. Also shoot digital stills. I modify and built stuff. I love technology. Camera: Red Epic/ Scarlet and soon Dragon

Email: info@scubacam.com.sg

http://www.scubacam.com.sg/


#19 thetrickster

thetrickster

    Sting Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 258 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:44 AM

WATER BREATHING DRAGON.....

 


Regards, Richard

---

GH4, Ninja2, 8mm, 7-14mm, 12-35mm, 14-42mm PZ, 60mm - all in a Nauticam wrapping, plus a couple of Keldan Video 8M CRI Lights

---