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Sony A7S for 4K - what a disappointment


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#1 kc_moses

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 04:37 PM

Well, look like Sony have a track record of getting the job done HALF right again! The first was their stupid issue of custom white balance setting for the RX100 series for video recording, Now with the A7S, they're not providing 4K recording internal to the camera. The HDMI 4K out is only 8-bit instead of 10-bit. So if you want it for 4K recording, you will need to get the $2000 or so Atomos, and if there is housing for the Atomos....... things get super expensive quick! I think the Panasonic GH4 is more suitable for now. I hope H.265 just get utilize already so many more camera can do 4K!

 

http://www.eoshd.com...-party-recorder


Edited by kc_moses, 06 April 2014 - 06:14 PM.


#2 Drew

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:29 PM

It's a full frame sensor in a small package with a good pixel-pitch and hopefully great high ISO performance (as far as Sony can do it :)).  Makes sense that the Bionz processor would probably have a meltdown trying to crunch 4k from a big sensor in such a small space. It's quite a bit smaller than a GH4.

The good news is that when the Shogun ships to allow the A7s to work in 8bit, waiting for housings etc will put it into the end of the year so CES and NAB will be around the corner again and the decision making starts again! :)
 


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#3 rtrski

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 03:02 AM

From a stills standpoint I have to admit this release is a bit of a headscratcher too.  The claimed dynamic range, low-light focus ability, and sensitivity is amazing...but only 12 mpix on a FF sensor seems a bit low to me from an enlargement point of view.  Guess I'll wait to see some more specs and pics.  So far the A7 isn't quite far enough in AF performance for me to give up the SLT pellicle yet (the A6000 seems like it might be but I really hate that body style's out-of-water ergonomics), and the A7R has even slower AF with no phase detect at all, and no first curtain electronic shutter to boot.  But from an as-housed standpoint the ergonomics and packability of these tiny beasts for their image quality is droolworthy...the housings look great.


Edited by rtrski, 07 April 2014 - 03:03 AM.

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#4 kc_moses

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 06:48 AM

 

The good news is that when the Shogun ships to allow the A7s to work in 8bit, waiting for housings etc will put it into the end of the year so CES and NAB will be around the corner again and the decision making starts again! :)
 

 

But I want to make up my Xmas shopping list now and save up for it :laugh: . Oh well, May be I should just consider the Sony A6000 since it's so cheap, not jumb on 4K until 3 years from now when Canon finally could do something about it. I'm very hesitate to jump on the GH4 mainly because there is no solution to use Canon lens yet even on land, I have already invested a bit on Canon lens so it's hard to start from new.



#5 Drew

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:00 AM

The best noise performance comes from pixel pitch.  If the Bionz processor isn't too bad, the noise performance should be very good.  The 400k ISO is a gimmick but paired with a f1.4 lens @ ISO64k isn't too noisy or low res, it can probably "see better than" the human eye! :)


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#6 Stuart Keasley

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:04 PM

Convergent Design have confirmed today that their Odyssey 7Q will also support 4k over HDMI from the A7S... Still no housing available for it yet, but at least it's another option.

Edited by Stuart Keasley, 07 April 2014 - 10:05 PM.

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#7 kc_moses

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:21 AM

External recording is really not for everyone, consider the cost of the recorder and amount of stuffs you have to pack and drag into the water. Since the Nauticam GH3 housing can accommodate the GH4, does it has HDMI out to external recording?  



#8 thetrickster

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 09:20 AM

Yes the GH3 / GH3 can provide external recording via the HDMI port.

 

Additionally the GH4, will be able to output uncompressed 10bit 4:2:2 footage too!! (but at the cost of no simultaneous SD card recording)


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#9 A.Y.

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 07:58 PM

Personally I'm very excited. Full frame sensor is four times the size of M43 = 4 times the light each 4K pixel will receive = 2 full stops difference. Look at the price difference between F2.0 vs. F2.8 vs. F4 lens with the same focal range from the same brand!

 

 



#10 kc_moses

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:00 PM

Well, told you Sony have that "Half done right" track record, look at it:

 

http://www.eoshd.com...ng-shutter-test

 

 

So that kind of not ideal especially on land use. Also, for rolling shutter issue, there is my question: If a big school of fish swim across you, would that school of fish turn jello?


Edited by kc_moses, 11 April 2014 - 12:01 PM.


#11 CheungyDiver

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 02:00 PM

jello cam :)  looks a bad as the DSLRs….but for UW this may not be such a serious as on land.

 

 

I don't know if it was just me. The background silhouettes (in blue) looks like the same specular highlight issue with LED lights as with Sony FS100. May be it is just the  odd blue lighting.


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#12 SPP

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 12:18 AM

KC,

 

I think its not totally about  "Half done right".

When an OEM has professional models above the consumer level, they need to protect those pro models. 

Pro model is where the $$ killing is made...I mean the buyers get stabbed here....ha ha ha.

 

Sony is loosing money as an electronic company, but their insurance business is making good money.

http://www.businessw...rofit-forecasts

http://www.smartplan...-business/20595

 

Black Magic is a good example of a company which it probably has nothing to protect, it only has so few cameras and they try to make

the best for these models......at a reasonable cost. But R&D need money. Small company like BlackMagic can not order sensors by the 500K quantity, so they will progress slowly but I hope they will do well.

 

Its quite the same like Nvidia graphic cards, the crippled some functions of their new high end gaming cards in order to protect the crazy expensive Quadro line which is used mainly by professional graphic station.

 

Recently FLIR did the same thing :

http://hackaday.com/...high-end-model/

They sell low cost US$1K unit by locking its capability, while the engine-internal is the same as a unit costing US$6K ....ha ha ha.

Just firmware lock....holy cow.

 

Its all about busines, how to rip off more $$.

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Dive safe.........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#13 Drew

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:55 AM

Boy, there is a lot of negativity on Sony.   :)  
Obviously with a small housing (even with a HDMI recorder), the probability of panning fast enough (none of that hand shot shaky stuff they use to acerbate the rolling shutter) is going to be still pretty minimal unless you purposely want that handheld look. Quite a bit of it can be reduced in post as well.

The Sony Bionz processor and sensor technology seems to love boosting that green channel for low light performance.  The LED color bleeding can be looked at 2 ways, that Sony's products are defective or that the cinematographer should use higher quality LED lights! :)

 

I'm also a little shocked about the Hermés tie in! :)  But like everything with expert craftsmanship and exclusivity have a price. :)


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#14 Cp

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:22 AM

Hi All,

 

We were able to check out the A7S at NAB, and verify that it does work properly in the Nauticam A7 housing. The body is identical physically, but does weigh a bit more due to the extra heat sink.

 

Regards,

Chris

 


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#15 kc_moses

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:50 AM

Yeah, there is a lot of negativity for SONY, but so far I'm holding up for the A6000: good price, nice photo spec (speedbooster is a plus), great 1080 (read that it's comparible to the FS700). I think it might take a couple models for 4K gear to really have a great "all around" features.



#16 dragon_a

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:26 PM

Does anyone have any experience of how the A6000 performs if used primarily for video?

 

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#17 kc_moses

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 12:08 PM

Tony,

 

Surprisingly, the Panasonic GX7 is preferred over the Sony A6000, you can see the comparison over here:

 

http://www.eoshd.com...x7-a6000-review

 

Moses



#18 Interceptor121

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:26 AM

You need to be careful with those land comparisons. I have now used the 24 mbps mode at 25p on the RX100 and is much better than the panasonic 28 Mbps 60p mode. Other than slowing down you never produce clips at 60p as nothing can play them well so for me a good 25p mode is essential. The new 50 Mbps 25p mode of the rx100 mark III sounds far more interesting shame about the 70mm max zoom

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#19 John Doe

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 11:18 PM

That S Log 2 is looking pretty darn good graded.