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2 X Subsee +10 stack together !


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#21 kc_moses

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 10:25 AM

Thanks Puffer Fish, since I never use SMC before, how do you test if the diopter do great for contrast focus or not? For the CMC-1, the chart listed it as 74mm working distance. If the Aquako is less than that, does it consider good or bad? I thought when come to UW photography/video, you want to get as close as possible.

 

Sorry I'm still new to macro and I'm going to Anilao next month, so I'm stressing out about absoluting getting the right tool before the big trip.



#22 Puffer Fish

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 11:54 AM

Ok, lets see if we can make this less stressful.

 

First off, I am guessing that the cmc is used by zooming all the way out, and using that for macro (P&S lens normally have their macro with the lens at the widest field of view).  If so, then one gets a greater working distance, but that is true with any wet lens.  Usually, it is best to have the lens as close as possible to the macro lens (which can be zoomed out or something close to being zoomed out, just watch how the lens move as you zoom)

 

You need enough working distance to protect your port and allow you to get lighting on the subject...so around 2 inches (or 50mm) is a very good number.  Depending on the port size, you might be able to go down to around 40mm or so.

 

If you had the Saba, subsea and SMC, you can actually see the difference between a high contrast and low contrast lens.  Higher is better with contrast detection systems.  All can take very nice images..but the lower  the light, the less clear the water and the lower the contrast can make focus more difficult.  Higher is better, but all work for at least 70% or more of the time.  Saba was the worse, subsea next and SMC the best I have used (so far).  This is a glass issue for the most part.  It was easy to see the difference between the SMC and the Saba, but not so with the subsea.

 

I think Aquako, used the same as the CMC should produce very similar magnification (a bit better) and should work fine.  I would go with that for now.  

 

Learning to use a high power macro is a bit difficult unless you have had a lot of experience with weaker ones, so everyone will have a steep learner curve.  Just have fun and enjoy.  Oh, and remember..start with the camera lens as far out as it goes....use the highest F stop you have and move the camera first to get focus.  After that, it is practice.



#23 kc_moses

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 12:03 PM

Thanks! A lot of it make sense now. I was comfortable using a +7 before. This time I'm bringing a tripod that's why I want to try out super macro. Super Macro on a point & shoot could be challenging, but I like this kind of challenges, as long as at the end of the day I can solve and learn from it.



#24 Puffer Fish

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 12:17 PM

If you have used a +7, you will do fine.  By the way, hand held works with all of super macro lens...one just has to be very, very stable.



#25 kc_moses

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 12:32 PM

He he, I'm shooting video, hand held won't cut it especially I don't want my viewer to get motion sickness. :lol2:



#26 Puffer Fish

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 12:41 PM

Excellent point.



#27 pullbear

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 01:59 PM

I know it's weird to reply one year later.

Because recently there's one new super wet diopter called NoodiLab, which is said to be *3.5 magnification. subsee +10(*1.97), SMC (*2.13), Aquako IV (*2.5).

Even by searching google for Noodilab only pops up quite few items.

I realy wonder any body tested Noodilab? How does it look like?



#28 Puffer Fish

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 09:15 AM

Pullbear, this is a seriously complex issue, and one filled with lots of questionable information.  The first question is "should I be using a full frame camera for taking super macro images?"  The answer is yes and no.  You can do it, but you will have all sorts of limitations.  You will need a super strong wet diopter.  You will have reduced image quality due to diffraction from using a super high F stop, the object will be way too close and difficult to find due to the huge size of the camera.  A long time ago, I used a 4x5 for macro images.  Worked great in a studio, and really, really sucked to use in the real world.

 

So what should you use:  Well, if you think of:

 

1.  Full frame

2.  Cropped sensor

3.  4.3rds (half sized, but actual 1/4 area)

4.  Hight end Point and shoot.

 

Cropped sensor is a far better choice,  but in most cases the difference is pretty small.  You get better magnification, but only by 1/3...more working space, but only by 1/3 and only 24 meg images (that is a joke, 24meg is equal to a 36 meg full frame.  So for super macro (and only supermacro), one can get a slightly better image than a 36 meg full frame can do.

 

The high end point and shoot has 20 meg sensors...and if lens were equal to that sensor, would be ideal, however there are lots of limitations and for the most part, while they can take good images, there are way too many limitations (limited f stop and focus issues just to name a few).

 

But the 4/3rd by accident happens to be in the sweet spot.  There are several ideal lens....they can do 2/1 at the same distance as a full frame can do 1/1.....because they use smaller macro lenses, depth of files is better.....and they current have far better resolution (20 meg micro 4/3 for super macro is equal to a full frame with an 80 meg sensor).

 

None of the above was done by design...it just worked out that way, and has nothing to do with taking any other type of image.

 

So why point this out...well it effects what wet lens you use, and the image quality you get.

 

I current use the Panasonic GX8 (there is now an Oly with the same sensor), and I use the Aquako iV.  I have the subsee +10, and gave away the SMC.  I need to buy the Aquako III, as the IV is only usable in some, very calm conditions.

 

If I had a full frame, I would need a +5.00 to get the same results, but it would be way too close, way to difficult to focus and you would have to use the highest F stop you had.

 

In truth, that 2/1 covers most things I would take images of, and I can use F8 (the sweet spot for image quality) most of the time.

 

So if my dive buddy had a full frame, and used this new 3.5... I can take the same image with a 1.75...except I would have twice the working distance, be able to use half the F stop and would be a lot easier (although find and focus would be the same for both cameras)  Using less glass, all things equal, my image quality would be better.

 

If I used a 3.5, that would be 7X magnification, and would be better called a microscope..might be fun to try though.

 

I so wish all of the above was not true, as I dearly love full frame camera's...and larger.  

 

So, I'm no longer looking a stronger wet lens, I'm looking for the best image quality one around +2



#29 pullbear

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 01:37 PM

 

 

Thank you for your reply. I totally agree with you. Macro photographers like 4/3 system.

I had subsee+10 and Inon 165 for my compact RX100 but now I gave those to my wife after I upgrade to 5D Mark III, then need to buy another wet diopter.

Currently I'm struggling with Aquako IV and SMC, then my gear supplier recommends this mystery NoodiLab.

Well, I still need 5D3 to shoot wide angle, no plan buying cropped or 4/3. So I guess SMC and probably additional SMC multiplier should be the best choice for me.

 

Aquako is a good diopter because it's the lightest among those


Edited by pullbear, 14 April 2016 - 01:38 PM.


#30 Puffer Fish

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 07:26 PM

The SMC (other than the weight) is an excellent lens, and about the limit that can be used with a full frame..ironically I gave it to a 5D3 owner, and he is still using it.

 

I believe it is about the limit one can use under normal conditions.  Remember more magnification means shorter working distance, narrower field of view and reduced DOF.  You can use a longer lens to increase the working distance..but that makes the DOF even smaller.  There is a point with every system that things get really, really hard to use...



#31 diggy

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 11:28 PM

I have used the SMC and have got some really good images which are tac sharp. The really difficult part is using this with the Nauticam super multiplier added to the SMC. Here are some images that have been taken with both stacked together. I was quite pleased with the bokeh kind of result. BUT NOT easy to use.

 

Cheers,

 

Diggy

Attached Images

  • _MG_2511.jpg
  • _MG_2570.jpg

SERENE I FOLD MY HANDS AND WAIT,    FOR WHAT IS MINE WILL KNOW MY FACE

Diggy          http://www.scubadiggy.com/

Canon7D, Nauticam housing, mini and large dome, canon 100mm, canon 60mm, 10-17 tokina, macro ports, extensions, two inon Z240, Nauticam SMC converter, +3, +5 diopters. Two Sola 2000, One Sola 1200, Go Pro hero 3 Black 


#32 diggy

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 11:33 PM

And here are two with just the SMC

Attached Images

  • _MG_2051.jpg
  • _MG_9423.jpg

SERENE I FOLD MY HANDS AND WAIT,    FOR WHAT IS MINE WILL KNOW MY FACE

Diggy          http://www.scubadiggy.com/

Canon7D, Nauticam housing, mini and large dome, canon 100mm, canon 60mm, 10-17 tokina, macro ports, extensions, two inon Z240, Nauticam SMC converter, +3, +5 diopters. Two Sola 2000, One Sola 1200, Go Pro hero 3 Black 


#33 Puffer Fish

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 06:05 AM

Diggy, you have shown the issue with using a larger camera and lots of wet glass.

 

Here is an eye on a squat anemone shrimp...roughly the same size as the eyes in your first image.  and a bit smaller than the eyes in your last image.  As I only post in facebook these days, will have to show that image, which is seriously compressed.

 

I cropped the image (so one could see the detail.

 

This is not because I'm some super photographer, rather it is just the technology.  If you want really sharp super macro images, you need to use as close to F8 as you can (high means less resolution) and you need the least amount of total glass.

 

I shoot lots and lots of medium to poor resolution...and that is where I would put yours.  But every so often I get everything right.  As you never see that level, I understand your view. 

 

https://www.facebook...&type=3



#34 kc_moses

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 07:32 AM

Good thing I know how to read Chinese, I found more information about the Noodilab diopter, for some reason they have two name for the product, "Shamu" and "Mobi" and they price differently.

 

It's starting to be sold on the market now and only sold by "Fun Dive UW", don't be confuse them with "Fun-in/Diver Vision" which is a reputable UW photography equipment seller in Taiwan. I have never heard of Fun Dive, but I think this company is base in China, and they have to use French Facebook page for some reason (Facebook is band in China).

 

Anyway, you need to have Facebook logged in to see the information below:

1.) Aquako IV vs Noodilab vs SMC vs CMC-1 side by side:

 

2.) Working distance/DOF of the Noodilab (Not good for video!!!!! Shot with Sony RX100IV) https://video-mia1-1...9cc&oe=571130E3

 

3.) Where to buy in TaoBao: US$362  https://world.taobao...00902.26.GrAf5Q

 

4.) Come in different color and where you can buy (US$502?): https://world.taobao...00902.29.GrAf5Q

 

TaoBao is like Amazon/Ebay for China, very similar to AliExpress. From the seller page, it looks like the mail is going to route through Singapore. I had similar experience buying stuff from China where the item is ship from China/Hong Kong to Singapore, then from Singapore it goes international where you have better tracking and reliable mail system.

 

Hope this help.


Edited by kc_moses, 15 April 2016 - 07:33 AM.


#35 Puffer Fish

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 09:22 AM

I think the two versions are different strength (hence the price difference).  Interesting item.  I would doubt it would provide coverage for a full frame, but it seems to work fine with the Sony.

 

I remember buying a SAGA, and the throwing it away.  It is made with low contrast glass, so focus is very difficult if you have a camera with contrast focus.

 

As nothing is said about the design (number of lenses, and grouping)....and It is shown with a sony point and shoot (a very nice point and shoot)....buy one is a serious gamble.  Particularly when they show an image (video) where only the center is used.

 

But for those that will try anything new..go for it.  



#36 kc_moses

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 01:01 PM

Alex Mustard tested the Noodilab, he used Sigma 150mm on Nikon D4. Not sure if he will write up a review of some sort. Since I shoot video, I'm going to stop at CMC-1 as it's hard enough to use.



#37 Puffer Fish

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 01:06 PM

Interesting used a 150mm...would seem to indicate it does have some limitations.  I hope Alex does write up something, as all the info one can get is valuable.