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D2x+105mm+2xTC+Woody's diopter


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#41 mrbubbles

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Posted 02 September 2005 - 02:30 PM

I used a woodys diopter extensively with a 105 on my recent trip to the solomons. See post here of soft coral crab a few days ago. I remember being in mabul malasia about 8 years ago. At that time it was the place to go for macro,like suawaysi is now. I remember all the japanese had housings with diopters and teleconverters. The set ups blew us away. They were taking pics of gobie eyeballs and such. Their shots were amazing, altho with slide film the depth of field was nothing like digital. There was a dive master there named yoshi, who had a book of his work out. Im not sure of his last name?hirata? You guys might want to check out his old stuff, just to see their work, it was facinating.

#42 randapex

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Posted 02 September 2005 - 07:42 PM

Herb, FWIW, the D2x doesn't adjust f stop # if the TC is on, I can add or remove it at f20 for instance and it won't change. What I did find, is the max aperture will drop from f40 to f32 as you zoom.

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#43 acroporas

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Posted 02 September 2005 - 07:55 PM

Rand, testing it at f/20 doesnt tell you anything because the lens is capible of f/20 in both cases.

See if the camera will let you set the aperature to 2.8(or what ever is normally wide open without the teleconverter) with the teleconverter on. If it will let you set it to 2.8 then it is not correcting for it, if it will not let you set the aperature to 2.8 then it is correcting for it.
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#44 herbko

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Posted 02 September 2005 - 08:15 PM

Rand, testing it at f/20 doesnt tell you anything because the lens is capible of f/20 in both cases.

See if the camera will let you set the aperature to 2.8(or what ever is normally wide open without the teleconverter) with the teleconverter on.  If it will let you set it to 2.8 then it is not correcting for it, if it will not let you set the aperature to 2.8 then it is correcting for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yes. That's a good check. I would double check by spot metering a subject at a fixed distance. If putting on the TC does not change the EV, then it is adjusting. If it does not the EV should drop 2 stops with the 2x TC added.
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#45 james

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 07:36 AM

It might also depend on whether you are using a Nikon TC made for that lens or a Kenko Pro TC. I'm making a big assumption here but I'd assume Nikon's TC would at least have a better chance of "talking" to the camera.

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#46 Kelpfish

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 07:42 AM

Hi all,

I have done a fair amount of super macro using the Nikon 105, with a screw on +2 diopter and a 2X converter. The picture below is a tiny hermit crab way inside of its shell. The trick with slow shutters is, of course, stabalization. Even at a 60th or even 125th shutter, the shallow working space requires one to make sure their housing is pinned between some rocks, as in a make-shift tripod. The slightest movement can cause blur and not only that, it is damn near impossible to compose unless you are stable and not moving around. Also, at slow shutter speeds your light has time to bounce back from the negative space, thus giving you the lighted background you discuss, especially at 1/25th. This pic was shot at F22 at 1/60th using Ikes Substrobe 50, two of them pinned against my port. My housing was wedged between 2 rocks.

Spectacular images can be had once you get the hang of using this kind of set up. I am even contemplating this same set up with the addition of a Macro Mate, but I will probably use my DS125's for more light.

Great thread.

Joe

Attached Images

  • hermit_eyes_small.jpg

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#47 randapex

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 08:02 AM

I did the test and it will stay at 2.8 with the TC added so I'm fairly certain, it's not recognizing it. And it is the Kenko TC.

Joe, thanks for posting that shot. The eyes are incredibly sharp. Your point is well taken on stablizing. I've found that supporting the port by cradeling it in my open left palm really helped. The real positive on this type of shooting is fantastic air consumption ;)
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#48 james

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 08:14 AM

Joe,

One thing to consider when purchasing macro strobes is the amount of light that they direct to the center of their spread. Since the field of view is so small (hopefully less than 36mm across, no?) you aren't always served well by a wideangle strobe like the DS125 or SS200.

I tried using my SS200's in Bali for macro, but I was happier with the Inon's for this type of shooting.

According to tests I've seen, Ike SS50's throw more light (higher reading on a flash meter) at a small subject than do the DS125's.

Cheers
James
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#49 Kelpfish

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 08:21 AM

That is correct. I have tubes that I put on both my macro and WA strobes to funnel the light. But you have to be accurate when aiming.

Joe
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#50 james

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 08:28 AM

Joe,

Can you post a photo and perhaps a description of your snoots?

Cheers
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#51 Kelpfish

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 08:35 AM

James,

Sure can. I am currently in Arizona but will do so when I get home in a few days. All is purchased at The Home Depot. I originally used them for close focus wide angle to reduce backscatter and really make the foreground image pop. Then I began experimenting with macro and in super macro, it seems to help a lot.

Joe
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#52 Rocha

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 09:17 AM

Yeah, you should also post it in the do-it-yourself area! That's an interesting solution, and sometimes I find myself wanting more power from my SS200 in macro shots, I think this would help.

Luiz

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#53 segal3

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 03:14 PM


Given a perfect optical lens, a camera captures the most resolution (resolving power) when the aperture is wide-open


Not true

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to repeat that this is in fact true. However, given that we don't have perfect optical quality lenses, more times than not the best lenses have a resolving power peak around f4-f5.6 and the worst lenses have a peak around f8-f11. After that, you're on the way to serious diffraction on a cropped-sensor dSLR.
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#54 scorpio_fish

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 05:24 AM

I have to repeat that this is in fact true.


Yes, this is true (to the extent one defines perfect optical quality as maximizing image definition). Must read more carefully before firing.

R=1800/N where R is resolving power and N if the f-number. So wider apertures always increase diffraction-limited resolving power.
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#55 james

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 06:36 AM

Check out this post by Thom Hogan on DPreview.com:

http://forums.dprevi...essage=15003348

"I believe I've been consistent in saying f/11 is the diffraction limit on the D2x. Beyond that and you'll have some diffraction effects. On the 6mp bodies, f/16 seems to be the last aperture free from diffraction.
--
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#56 Ryan

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 08:04 AM

I agree w/ Thom re: f11 being the threshold for diffraction w/ pixels that small, for what its worth, that can be calculated here:
http://www.digitaldiver.net/dof_x.php

It might also depend on whether you are using a Nikon TC made for that lens or a Kenko Pro TC. I'm making a big assumption here but I'd assume Nikon's TC would at least have a better chance of "talking" to the camera.


Nikon cameras display the bellows effected f-stop in the viewfinder, but do not account for the multiplier of a third party teleconvertor. The 105 can't be used w/ E-series TC's from Nikon, only the manual TC-201 and TC-14. So, it is safe to say that no combination w/ the 105 is going to display the true aperture in the viewfinder, and Nikon doesn't even sell a combination that allows AF or metering w/ the 105.

When I use the 105 w/ a Nikon TC-201, I set the aperture on the lens to f11, and lock it at 1:1 w/ a piece of tape.

I've played w/ the 150 & Kenko 2x at a range of apertures, but haven't reached a good compromise f-stop. I plan to revisit this on the grass flats in Biscayne Bay, and will report back in early October.

I'm really fond of Sigma's 150 & 1.4x TC. The 1.4 holds sharpness much better than does the 2x. I'll usually use this combo w/ a Canon 500d and Woody's diopter. I have used this w/ a borrowed macro mate, but wasn't able to get much in the razor thin dof.

In my opinion, trying to shoot these at any shutter speed slower than the inverse of the focal length is going to be a challenge, anything less than half the inverse of the focal length will be impossible.. If the strobes are where they need to be, the Z-220s have surplus power.

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#57 james

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 08:12 AM

Good post Ryan, thanks. Which 1.4x TC did you use with your Sigma 150?

Cheers
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#58 herbko

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 09:42 AM

In my opinion, trying to shoot these at any shutter speed slower than the inverse of the focal length is going to be a challenge, anything less than half the inverse of the focal length will be impossible..  If the strobes are where they need to be, the Z-220s have surplus power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yes. For tiny stuff at reasonable aperture the Z-220 is fine. Rand had trouble only because he was shooting at F/59. For medium size fish and WA I often wish my Z-220's are brighter.
Herb Ko http://herbko.net
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#59 Ryan

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 12:22 PM

Good post Ryan, thanks. Which 1.4x TC did you use with your Sigma 150?

Sigma, in this case. I have both Sigma and Kenko, and can't tell the difference in 200% blowups of text & graphic chart shot from a macro slide on a tripod.

Posted Image

Yes. For tiny stuff at reasonable aperture the Z-220 is fine. Rand had trouble only because he was shooting at F/59. For medium size fish and WA I often wish my Z-220's are brighter.


I have been using DS-125s for wa, and if I had an ISO 100, I'd travel w/ 200s. I use the ds-125 mainly for its warmer color temp and recycle.

EDIT: Had to fix my link because I can't spell shrimp.

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#60 Rocha

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 12:37 PM

Ryan, I can't see the photo you posted, all there is here is "used posted image".

Luiz

EDIT: Now it works ;) . Is this a crop or full frame?

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