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Interesting new Sony (DSC-R1)


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#1 herbko

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 01:08 AM

Sony just announced a new groundbreaking fixed lens camera

http://www.dpreview....01sonydscr1.asp

APS-C 10.8 Mpixel CMOS sensor! A preview of the D200 sensor?

Live view!

3 frames/sec

24-120mm equiv F2.8-F4.8 lens looks good but probably not optimal for underwater use. The wide end is not wide enough and it has a long travel in the zoom so it's probably hard to make a wet WA lens for it.

Phil's summary did not include a X-sync speed. He wrote Max Shutter 1/2000 for all modes. If by that he means the X-sync is 1/2000, that'll be very impressive. I think it's unlikely based on my understanding of CMOS sensor designs, but Sony could have come up with something new.

Cost: $999
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#2 DesertEagle

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 07:40 AM

And the lens looks better than the cheapo kit lens that comes with the Drebel. One area of concern for UW is the location of the LCD. I have a feeling that if Ike makes a housing, you would have to use the EVF.
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#3 Trevor Rees

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 09:22 AM

At last - a non SLR camera that uses a bigger sensor.

I agree that the 24-120 zoom will limit serious wide angle options and the LCD position looks a pain to design a housing around.

Perhaps other models will follow

#4 herbko

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 09:42 AM

And the lens looks better than the cheapo kit lens that comes with the Drebel. One area of concern for UW is the location of the LCD. I have a feeling that if Ike makes a housing, you would have to use the EVF.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Probably is. At least it has a larger zoom range. However, for underwater use, I think it is a show stopper for many. The wide angle range is not enough and I think adding a wide adapter will be very difficult. Now that Sony showed that it can be done. I hope that Canon will come out with one that uses interchangeable EF lenses: a 350D with live view.
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#5 DesertEagle

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 09:49 AM

Sony has an adapter lens for it. Shot behind a dome port that would be very nice. Even without an adapter, the 24mm shot behind a dome port would approximate a Nikonos 20. Not bad.

It's only a matter of time before the other manufacturers start using that sensor on their cameras. One of them is bound to be successful underwater.
Canon 30D. Olympus SP-310, PT-030 housing with Sea & Sea 16mm lens. Sea&Sea YS-50 and YS-60 stobes. Heinrichs-Weikamp DA2 adapter. ULCS base & arms. A little Magic (original & auto).

#6 gobiodon

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 12:00 AM

According to the rumours, SONY will enter the DSLR market soon with KonicaMinolta mount, AntiShake technology, and live view.
I hope, KM will also benefit from this cooperation and will have a better underwater support.
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#7 davephdv

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 01:59 PM

I would agree that the equiv. of 24 mm is wide enough for UW photography. Though the current trend is to go much wider with your lenses the NIkonos 20mm lens, with the same angle of coverage has long been considered a very desirable lens for UW use. You can get excellent wide angle yet still fill your frame with a decent size subject such as a shark or sea lion at the closest distance to that subject that you are likely to get.

Sony will also offer add on wide angle and macro lenses for this camera.

The biggest problems I see is that a housing will be the size and cost of a dSLR housing and the LCD screen is not probably usable in a housing. Others seem to dislike using EVF but I have used mine several times with my 8400 and it works very well UW; especially in bright light. This even with the synch socket being in the way on my housing.

A lot of people may prefer a camera like this over entry level dSLRs even though the size is no less and the cost as much or more. If it has a good autofocus and very little shutter lag it could be an excellent camera.

The one thing I wonder about is if enough people will want to house one to justify making a housing.
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#8 herbko

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 08:58 PM

The biggest problems I see is that a housing will be the size and cost of a dSLR housing and the LCD screen is not probably usable in a housing. Others seem to dislike using EVF but I have used mine several times with my 8400 and it works very well UW; especially in bright light. This even with the synch socket being in the way on my housing.

A lot of people may prefer a camera like this over entry level dSLRs even though the size is no less and the cost as much or more. If it has a good autofocus and very little shutter lag it could be an excellent camera.

The one thing I wonder about is if enough people will want to house one to justify making a housing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I think any housing for it would have to make accomdations to use the LCD. That is the only reason I can think of for choosing this over one of the low end DSLR. I've now shot a couple of years with the DRebel and I still miss being able to compose shots on the LCD. I think with the LCD, I can get the camera closer to the subject and at angles I can't do while looking thru the viewfinder.
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#9 DesertEagle

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 11:06 AM

The LCD would cetrainly be tricky. I could also see a decent sized viewfinder magnifier as an option.

About the lens, here's why I'm happy:

One of the biggest barriers to buying a DSLR for underwater work is the cost of the optics. You've spent $1000 on a camera with 28 to whatever lens that isn't really wide enough. Now I'm supposed to spend an extra $600 to $1000 on a wide angle zoom. Someone please tell Nikon and Canon to make a 13mm and 16mm APS-sized prime. The optic ought to be small and "relatively" inexpensive to manufacture. At least with the R1, it would be a decent 24mm optic. And for general travel photograhy, 24-120 is ideal for me.
Canon 30D. Olympus SP-310, PT-030 housing with Sea & Sea 16mm lens. Sea&Sea YS-50 and YS-60 stobes. Heinrichs-Weikamp DA2 adapter. ULCS base & arms. A little Magic (original & auto).

#10 herbko

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 04:50 PM

If you are happy with the limitations that's fine. 24mm equiv is wide enough to require a well designed dome, that's going to cost you. It would be nice to have a setup with that range underwater. I suspect the port design required is not easy. We'll see what quality you can get.

Now if Canon would make a 350D with live view and keep all the other features the same, I would be the first in line for one.
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#11 Marc Furth

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 08:43 PM

The latest pictures posted by dpreview are very disappointing, to much noise at higher iso.


http://www.dpreview....nyr1prevupd.asp

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#12 gobiodon

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 12:31 AM

Looks not so bad to me.
Ok, high iso pictures are not comparable to recent DSLR performance.
But its a fair punishment for live view.
Marcell Nikolausz
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#13 DesertEagle

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 05:33 AM

Looks good to me. Just like the 8MP monsters of of two years ago, the price on this puppy will come down.

To quote DPreview:

As can be seen in the crops above, luminance noise does appear to be kept under control up to ISO 800, at ISO 1600 and 3200 the visibility of noise (especially chroma blotches) is more obvious. Comparing detail the most visible difference between the DSC-R1 and EOS 20D is at ISO 800 where the R1's image looks over-processed and smudged, the EOS 20D maintains detail (at the slight expense of a little more noise).

Oh, and then there's resolution:

CameraOutput pixels
Horizontal resolution

Canon EOS-1Ds
11.0 million
2400 LPH

Sony DSC-R1 (Pre-production)
10.0 million
1900 LPH

Canon EOS 20D 8.0 million 1850 LPH
Canon EOS 350D
8.0 million
1850 LPH

Olympus E-300
8.0 million
1800 LPH
Canon 30D. Olympus SP-310, PT-030 housing with Sea & Sea 16mm lens. Sea&Sea YS-50 and YS-60 stobes. Heinrichs-Weikamp DA2 adapter. ULCS base & arms. A little Magic (original & auto).

#14 decapod_dude

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 09:17 AM

Wonder how difficult it would be to shoot looking down on the LCD monitor when it is folded face up? Shooting 'from the hip' so to speak like the old medium format cameras. That would eliminate the need for a huge housing.

-T

#15 derway

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 09:59 AM

Alas, RAW mode is still slow, compared to canon G series or pro1, though much improved for sony - down to 6-8 seconds, depending on memory speed.

Looks like speed of handing, focusing, shooting is not as good as the V3 or 828, but maybe just due to pre-production unit under test..??

I also wonder if that might apply to the relatively high noise level at high iso..??

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#16 herbko

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 10:15 AM

Alas, RAW mode is still slow, compared to canon G series or pro1, though much improved for sony - down to 6-8 seconds, depending on memory speed.

Don

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20MB raw + 3.6MB jpeg! Canon applies lossless encoding to the raw files and reduces the size by almost a factor of 2. The 6Mpixel Rebel's raw+jpeg file size is between 5-6 MB when the smallest & most compressed jpeg is chosen.
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