I have made a nice trip report from my bahama trip, you can watch it on Youtube http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3jjx6rQOM

This is a must see video. It's hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!

pretty silly bearing in mind the recent event out there.

Thats a 10+ I loved it, regardless of recent events

Seems like pretty irresponsible and unnecessary behavior to me ... particularly from the guy who threw the stick at the tiger shark.

i am very glad i was not in the water with these idiots. i would deffinatley of had more than a few words to say to them. it is behaviour like this that could turn an animal into thinking that humans are a threat to them, they could disappear or even attack.

I've never been so offeneded in my life.........All those involved shold be ashamed...It just shows that human stupididty is endless

Well, I thought it was hilarious. Some of the behavior makes light of the potential danger that comes with being in the water with large sharks, but I'm glad that they were having so much fun!

Also, I had never seen video footage from the Dolphin Dream. The shark diving doesn't seem very well regulated. I'm sure the boat will start tightening things up over time as they realize what they are doing.

Are you serious? Would you not describe it as harassment ? I certainly would. Mind you, I feel the way you probably get some of your shots would probably fall into a similar catagory. I am sorry if you feel that this a personal attack, but to condone what they did, in your postion, I feel is wrong.

Imagine the scene, man throws pole at tiger shark, hits tiger shark in the eye, tiger shark reacts and attacks innocent diver who was there to respect the sharks and photograph them. Another statistic for the Bahamas within a few weeks, NEWS HEADLINES : shark diving banned in the Bahamas.

going slightly off topic Eric, what are your views regarding the recent posting regarding DD shots. Have you ever moved a nudibranch to get a better shot? I and I am pretty sure a lot of other members would like to know. I cant recall seeing you comment on the DD posting, I could be wrong though

The shark that the pole is thrown at is not a tiger shark but a lemon shark. Not that that makes a different for your point, but just saying. The lemon sharks are not at all interested in anything happing underwater on those trips. Even the tigers would probably not have reacted.

I think that the whole scene looks chaotic. Having just come back from a similar trip on a different boat I cant imagine them letting any of us behave like that. We'd be banned to the surface immediately. It seems a little irresponsible to let divers be so careless but i suppose every boat has their own rules.

I dont really get the endless karatechopping..but i guess you had to be there

I'm just sayin' ... who throws a javelin at a shark? Tiger, lemon, nurse, whatever ... right?

I appreciate the "enthusiasm" ... seems a little "german" for my taste, but I appreciate "good times" ...

I've never been on a shark dive but one of my young lieutenants did go to the Bahamas himself and he was really surprised that the operators let them go so crazy with the sharks in the water. He was in the water with another shark operator on the day that guy got bit and later died.

But you guys have been in the water with sharks a bunch and no doubt have a better sense of what's safe and what's not.

My reaction when I saw the footage was two-fold ...

>>>> Seemed dangerous to be so spastic and un-focused on the task at hand ... Maybe I'm just still reeling from seeing Jaws at 8 years old in the movie theater.

>>>> Seemed unkind to throw a javelin at a shark

I know I'm too old to appreciate the dumb karate chopping / dancing dragon thing, but I did do stuff like that when I was 18 I suppose.
I just wonder what the reaction would have been if this stuff had been filmed from Abernathy's boat, maybe on the same trip of the recent accident. Furthermore this was filmed from the Dolphin Dream who I believe were big participants in slamming Abernathy after the accident.
I'm all for having fun, do underwater dancing if that's what runs your motor; but I can't see anyone here looking around them, paying any attention to currents and the direction of the chum slick, where the tigers, or occasional bull - if any - might be coming from, etc. I assume as well that everybody on the dive was into the party, anybody who was not certainly could not have enjoyed being down there with the rest of the group.
I guess this could be posted as a movie of how not to conduct a group dive at Tiger Beach.

I never condoned it. I just thought it was hilarious. It did look dangerous and was not that way I'd like to be in the water with large sharks.

I don't know you, Stew, and we've never been in the water together. I didn't take what you said was a personal attack because we have no personal relationship whatsoever. You have no first-hand experience with my methods underwater.

I don't know you, Stew, and we've never been in the water together. I didn't take what you said was a personal attack because we have no personal relationship whatsoever. You have no first-hand experience with my methods underwater.
[/quote]

or above water, you are correct. i found this video to be harassment to the sharks. you may not, but that would be your personal opinion, and what i have written is mine, which hopefully i am entitled to.

perhaps it would have been better for your original reply to have said.

It did look dangerous and was not that way I'd like to be in the water with large sharks.

instead of

Some of the behavior makes light of the potential danger that comes with being in the water with large sharks, but I'm glad that they were having so much fun!

Sorry Stew. I spent 15 days diving & photographing with Eric and I can tell you he is one of the most environmentally cautious photographers I have been in the water with. I wonder why you would assume such a thing without witnessing or direct proof. I know we have never met, so how is my diving?

i wasnt saying anything at all about the way eric dives. if i did please show me where.

Having dived the tigers on Jim's boat a number of times, I have to say I have not seen behavior like this before. Jim's methods are calculated and deliberate. Every dive is taken seriously and no one messes around. You would be dropped on land and flown home if you every tried this on Jim's boat. That is probably one of the reasons Eric and I choose to dive the Bahamas with Jim. His respect and appreciate for the sharks is unmatched.

I suppose there will always be those who take something a step too far. The video unto itself was entertaining and edited well. Under other circumstances I would have appreciated it more. My lack of appreciation for the carelessness these divers displayed underwater makes it hard for me to enjoy the video. I hope the Dolphin Dream takes note and exercises greater discipline in the future.

Finally, Eric is very much environmentally concerned. His artistic appreciation for the video says nothing for his concern for safe and environmentally sound diving practices. If there is an environmental film project to do, Eric is at the top of my call list.

-shawn

I wasn't going to name names, but there you go. Amen to that. Im a little surprised actually to see that another boat allows this type of behavior in the vicinity of tiger sharks. I honestly thought that all pretty much used the same safety principles.

Cor

it is quite good that this video was posted. i was going to be chartering the dolphindream for early next year, and the deposit was meant to be paid a few weeks after the poor guy died out at tiger beach. not knowing what the outcome would be from the incident, and thinking there would be some kind of enquiry into what took place, i decided to put it on the back burner. another WP member had PM'd me a couple of times regarding safety concerns with the dolphindream. he didnt have any first hand experience but he did know of someone that did. after watching this video, i emailed dolphindream to get a full explanation from them and asked to hear their views. below is a copy of my email to which i have not had any reply.

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3jjx6rQOM

please find attached a link to a video that was shot by others, whilst diving the bahamas with your compnay,. i had already made enquiries with yourselves regarding chartering the dolphin dream and would like to know a few facts from yourselves first.

firstly what is your opinion of this video, i do not mean quality i mean content.
secondly did you know that the people involved in the making of this video were acting like this underwater, and would you allow these guys to be repeat customers
and finally, were any guides or crew in the water when this film was being made. if they were why did they not stop these fools from acting like this.

i find it hard to believe that after a recent fatality out where this video was made, and that you would allow such total nonesense to happen.

please reply to me with your honest answers,

yours, a future customer

Having been on a very similar shark dive and completed 2,000 other dives I offer the following comments:

1. At first glance it is a well edited and funny video.
2. The video contains unsafe and irresponsible diver and boat safety criteria.
3. It protrays to the public irresponsible diver behavior and denigrates the majority of good divers

It should be pulled off public viewing.

While I usually do instigate controversial threads, I do think that the thread has been veered away from Bruno's video and more about politics of diving. I mean, there are 3 JackAss movies and a plethora of antic themed shows so obviously there are people who appreciate videos of this nature. Not that I'm saying that Eric likes JackAss movies, but he is allowed to, despite his 'status' (which I'm not sure what status that is...homeless? single?). Why does Eric have to defend himself for finding something funny? I mean, is he or anyone else running for office? Does everyone have to state their beliefs/positions on every issue every time they post? This is a forum and the movie, however inane to some, is funny to others. For those who have issues with the safety and disrespect for sea life, write to the BDA and the operators. Why put someone on the spot for thinking it's funny because you are appalled by it?
Now if Eric was one of the karate divers, then I would question his technique since I believe he's more into wushu shaolin styles and we all know crane and snake boxing kicks ass over karate. Sorry Cor, silat is for posers
Finally please do not compare the incident of Markus Groh to this incident, unless you know what happened in that incident. That sort of association is never substantiative or even helpful.
Afterall, all those opposed to shark diving in general (and I'm one of them) would think activity like this is bad in general. And I still speak to almost everyone who does it regularly... except Shawn now.
Most importantly, I'm most peeved that so many admin and mods have read this thread DID NOT put this in the video subforum, where video sharing should be.


Even if I were there, I would've done taichi... more serene than chops and the 'qi' flow would've shown in the water. If I used 'qi' to deflect a shark, I wouldn't be officially touching it.



Biatch, you mean that man purse carrying dude is above me on the list?

Ok now that it's in the right subforum, please comment on the content and editing of the video.

Drunken fighter everytime.. You can take on multiple assailants and using a special 'Chi' technique not feel a thing until the next morning...



Dive safe

DeanB

Drew,
I do not think anyone has 'compared' this video (not an incident itself really) to any other incident. It is a fact though, that as a result of the Marcus Groh incident, the safety of this type of diving has been called into question, and specifically the safety procedures of an operator many of us support have been questioned to the extent that the operation's viability could have been affected.
I think it is fair to observe that shark diving as done from another boat, at least in this video, is being conducted in a somewhat disorganized fashion, that many would consider less safe. This video could be used by those who wish to terminate this activity as an example of these supposedly unsafe practices. It is also ironic that the owner of this boat was involved in questioning the unsafe practices of his competition.
Whether or not anyone thinks their antics are amusing or not is of course up to the personal taste of the viewer.

Jeff et al
I think much of the 'disorganization' is attributed to the way Bruno edited his video (which on reflection was kinda well done). Although I've only watched it once with paying too much attention to detail, most of the karate stuff was not around the the main baiting area but cleverly cut to appear so. The main baiting scenes were fairly normal for such dives. The pole throwing was probably thrown to 'appear' it was aimed at the shark but it fell quite short of the target and actually behind the shark. It's a camera angle trick much akin to how Harrison Ford throws his punches in Indiana Jones. Bravo to Bruno for managing to "sell" that shot (as the industry would say) to so many people that it invokes such reactions.
Let's also keep in mind that Bruno put up the video to share his fun, not be crucified for not appealing to everyone's sensibilities. Let's give him the respect to start another thread about the objectionable actions of the operators, since Bruno is not one of them.
If there is going to be a debate over the different operators and the politics of shark diving in the Bahamas (which is getting far away from the purpose of the video), let's do it logically and with facts and not gut reactions and unsubstantiated assumptions, as I see how a few people have reacted to the video.

Is it just me or did anyone think the music actually didn't go very well with most of the film... Ok its a take on the location and the divers banged their heads to the main up tempo parts (Wayne's worldesque) but it, to me, just didn't gel...

Apart from that, nicely put together and some lovely sequences.. I guessed the stick throwing incident was a camera angle trick but if it wasn't then.. shame on that man and I hope the shark sues the idiot next time.. or worse I didn't like the sharks being dragged out the water for their amusement but if sharky did'nt like it I guess it would have let go...Just me being the softy I am.. I loved the Wushu display how many of us did that when we were younger in the swimming pools.. But if they want to be 'brave' trying it on the sharks or just do it for the cameras then I hope they never lose a hand or arm as it would be detrimental to the shark, with bad press and thats a terrible thing.. Please think before you act for both your sakes...

I cannot wait for the 'part 2' when they try the same in Africa in the middle of a pride of lions... .. as my mate Paul weller would say "Now thats entertainment"...

Dive safe

DeanB

I guess I didn't understand the rules of your forum.

Sorry for spoiling everyone's fun.

Later.

If you look closely you see the 'No Tigers Allowed' sign in one of the frames

Personally I dont care about the video itself, only about the reactions it can bring from people with even worse sensibilities than the divers here.

Cor

It is not solely a question of intent. People could find videos of enlarged puffers being carried by divers as fun, people skinning sharks fun, people dancing on reefs fun and just post them to share the fun. Those are rather extreme examples and would probably offend everyone's sensibilites here, but as you can see from responses in this thread there was enough in the video to approach a line in many people's minds.

Unless the operators were the only ones doing these things, the diver's actions have opened them up to discussion. Though there is the issue that the operators appeared to have let these things happen without any intervention, I am not sure that participating, whether filming or otherwise, should not be mentioned in discussing the video. It happens all the time when people post pictures or other items (was there too much Photoshop, was the animal harrassed, etc.)

I agree that assumptions are being made to some degree. Though it seems like certain things occurred, in fact this may have taken place in a couple of moments and the operator may have stopped the divers immediately, gave them a lecture and made them sit out dives, and the divers may have not realized that their actions could be off.

Jeremy - I don't think Drew is talking about the "rules" of the forum. He's just saying that people can think the video is funny, and that's fine. As long as there is mutual respect, everything is fine here.

Not a fun thing.. but we all have different opinions on things.. Obviously.. I was talking to a bloke in a pub not long ago who agreed with the seal culls in Canada.. Because he said that they were depleting fish stocks and people were losing their jobs.. Well.. I had to walk away.. or he would have lost his teeth..

But this is what forums are for in a way, to put your views forward and let off steam etc..etc.. If we start censoring things then its a steep slope downhill.. in my opinion...

Dive safe

DeanB

Gotcha ... in re-reading Drew's post I see that I misread it slightly. You CAN think its funny ... and, as I said, you've been on dives like this (and I haven't) and you have a much better sense of what's safe and what's not.

[Sorry, I'm kinda grumpy today ... I have my entire digital life - hundreds of GBs of music, video and photos - stored on a RAID-based NAS and backed up on an external USB drive ...

Long story short, yesterday I re-formatted the external drive to create a band-new full backup and, of course, the NAS died mid-backup. Hopefully it is just a faulty power-supply and there was no data loss, but I won't know until Wednesday when the new PSU arrives.

The only good news is that the backup that did run successfully was my photos ...]

Yes there were. On my first viewing, I saw differences in water turbidity, color and depth between the scenes of the baited shark dives and the kung fu stuff. That alone suggested to me the scenes were separately shot. On my just 2nd viewing, I see only 2 scenes where close proximity interaction with lemon sharks where the kungfu stuff was going on. Were these done on the baited dives where the big tigers were around or were the lemon sharks just around while the guys were out having fun? Can anyone tell? I surely can not. I can say with more certainty that the lemon shark behavior of swimming around divers etc is a result of constant bait/feeding interaction. And yes, falling onto the shark wasn't nice but it's quite obvious he didn't see the shark coming behind his leg and it knocked him over.
To me, the kungfu/headbanging stuff is just a bunch of guys having a good time on holiday. The editing and separate scenes made it look chaotic for effect. I ,for one, can see the pole was thrown BEHIND the shark and not with much force, hence to me it was just another effect shot. I'm sure it doesn't appeal to everyone and everyone has a right to voice that opinion. However, let's not accuse the guy of viciously trying to impale a lemon shark with a hollow pole for a shot.
Furthermore, calling the divers "spastic" and "stupid" etc. doesn't show much respect for fellow divers out on holiday and probably not harming anything or anyone. Then the assumption the operator condones this sort of behavior on baited dives without any solid proof is neither fair or even logical. The editing made it look like the operator allows their customers to go nuts, whereas further scrutiny on the baited dive scenes show it to be atypical of such dives. The Bahamian shark diving operators' turf war has been pushed on to this thread. If this were the operator's official video, then it would be fine. But it's not and I think it fair to move such a discussion to another thread if it needs further analysis.


Nothing has been censored. I simply asked people to calm down and examine things logically. It's not nice to unleash on other people's work because you don't feel very congenial. You want to rant, start your own thread. That is what Eric means when he says mutual respect.

Maybe I am just getting old, and maybe, if I were still 18 I would have done the same thing...however, I am not. I only found the video boring, not very well filmed and uninventive. What I do enjoy are the honest debates, disagreements and different perspectives....I also enjoy the lack of flames and disrespect which is the norm here and why this has been such a decent community here. Time to lighten up folk
Steve

I went through a few different feelings while watching this. First of all, I was like - yeah good editing - then - what the hell are they doing - though hey they were indeed fun diving! Then I couldn't stop giggling at the way they were acting, if you don't see the funny side in some of it, how unfortunate for you! Yeah, I agree very jackass style, then I went on to think hey, isn't this area meant to be no direct feeding? Then - oh no now their loosing it, there was no need to throw a pole at a shark, yeah for sure break your buddies camera, but don't hurt the shark. I think the kids got a wee bit carried away there, as kids and boys do...

Didn't say it had been... Just saying 'if' we do start because of different opinions and objections then its a bad thing...And who's ranting ??? Not me ..

Dive safe

DeanB

ooops what happend here??? i did't not cheked the forum a few days and everbody is talking and judging me

I will try to give more info on the video and the trip aboard the Dolphin Dream.

First like some people noticed, offcourse all the shots of people doing crazy are filmed whitout having bait / tiger sharks around, the fact that some people do not see that means my movie works

I organised a 9 days trip on the Dolphin Dream whit all friends of me (yep most of them are allitle crazy) , 2 days we played whit the dolphins and the rest we spend on diving with sharks and trying to get the tigers sharks around the boat!
Offcourse the tigers are not always around so we had allot of time watching the Lemons sharks that are always in big numbers around.
Like sombody noticed the lemons realy are not intrested in divers or whatever they are just swimming around, and waiting to get a nice fish now and then.

The crew of the Dolphin Dream was realy good about informing uss about the safty etc of diving with sharks, my trip was 1 month afther the accident on Jim's boat offcourse whe alle where very intrested about the facts how somhting like this happens and i can tell you nobody on board told somthing bad about Jim's boat or whatever! The only fact so far i now till now, and i suppose all of you is that the accident happend in deeper whater and far away (200km?) of Tiger Beach and it was whit a Bull shark!

So to repead myself all the crazy shots are filmed away from the bait etc, you will see only a few lemon sharks wondering around not in the bigg numbers like we have when baiting them!
Then about the stick incident, first if you watch closse enough or see it in good quality (youtube sucks) you will see the stick is more then a meter away from the shark, and it was never the intention to trow to the shark!
You will think why trow with sticks then? well i will tell you allitle about the film i am making on the moment!
After difrent kind of documentarys whit diffrent succes i was thinking to do somthing funny, so i had the idee to make a funny underwaterolympics story! All the shots specialy filmed for that are not in the youtube film!
1 of the diciplines is spear trowing! so thats how i have the shot of the stick flying close to a shark what is never been the intention, i hope to finish the olympics movie this summer so you all can judge that :-)

Looking forward to more Judging

Greetings Bruno

P.S. sorry about my english i do my best

Hi Bruno,
I guess an apology is in order. But I would make one comment; I am not a video guy, so when I watch a video or movie I do not tend to take it apart and analyze how the pieces are put together. For me, and I think for most people who are not videographers, a video or movie is seen as one continuous narrative.
So I went back and watched it again, and yes, I can see how the video was shot as you explained. But....when I put it all back together as a single narrative, my original impression remains.

I do not make a apology! and i do not see a reason to do that! i like to be cristal clear about that!

The only thing maybe wrong in the film is the diver falling on the lemon shark but like you can see that is by accident and the shark do not have eny problem with it so do not make it worser then necesary!

Bruno

Bruno
Jeff is apologizing to you and not asking for an apology.
And all this could've been avoided if you added the famous lines that all movies add waaayyyy at the end of the credits:

"No animals have been ill-treated, injured or killed in the making of this film."

But then again, it's at the end of the credits so no one really reads it.

If you really want to make it difficult for people to tell the cuts apart, color correct to match the water color between the scenes. Even in Youtube quality I can see the differences and I wasn't looking for it. Oh and for effect, you should give the poles that light saber effect. It's easily done on Adobe AEFX.

loved the headbanging part...

just got back from a week offshore and seen this....

I actually thought it was pretty funny, I'm sure the sharks could swim away if they were that pissed off / sacred.

Yes Bruno I apologize; though it is more the impression of chaotic and unsafe diving in the presence of Tigers etc, put in the context (by me) of recent events in that part of the world, rather than hurting animals, that I was reacting to.

Nice one Bruno, slightly controversial but certainly funny and entertaining.

I thought the pvc pipe was thrown at the cameraman. It was only toward the end that it appeared to come close to the shark.

I also though the karate moves looked quite slick. These guys were obviously very comfortable in the water. I don't think I can make my legs move that quickly with fins on.

Favorite show was of the shark swimming between the guy's legs. I have nothing against being up close with nothing between me and the teeth besides my camera, but it seems to be testing fate a bit too much to let a shark swim between your legs. A quick torn of the head and you have a calf bite. A sudden "up turn" and you could lose the family jewels.

It looks like the dive was done in 15 feet of water, so at least if there was an accident you'd be able to get to the surface okay.

If divers are going to be bitten by sharks, it ought to be divers who act like this. Heck, even if its not divers like this, videos like this will make people assume that those who are bitten are somewhat deserving even if that's not true. This is a good thing. Because people won't blame the shark as much.

I guess I'm on the other side of the curve of this one, this is one of the most idiotic videos I have ever seen and I wish I could take the time back that I lost watching it. I didn't find it funny at all.

Billy

I dove Tiger Beach on two separate occasions last year aboard Dolphin Dream and found the behaviour of the captain and crew to be of the highest professional standards. The martial arts sequences in the video brought out a chuckle or two but I did not appreciate the spear chucking incident at all. If the dives had been conducted in deeper water they could at least have used the excuse that they were narc'ed.

Cripes... I think Brumpy is getting alot of press for this one...

Hmmmm I think my next film is going to be some divers cage fighting with numerous Beasties... Starting with Krill and working their way up... THE ULTIMATE LOCK DOWN !!!!! diver vs Blue whale... Man alive I could sell that baby...

Oh well just had a letter from a broadcaster !!! quote:

"Dear Mr Burman aka 'hot stud' we have viewed your impressive new film 'Aquatic Rumble' and was amazed at the excellent photograpy and editing skills... The way you got those leviathans of the sea to smack the crap into those dickhead divers absolutely stunned us here at the BBGEO... It was a highly emotional piece especially the sequence in which the ex special forces diver choked out the Nudibranch while its mother/ father screamed from behind the cage...Utter brilliance... Although we loved your cinematic achievement we here at the BBGEO, because of the unique way we are funded, cannot stretch to the 11 per second you have asked but would glady broadcast it with a CREDIT to you... Also we have noticed you've filmed it in HDsuperior 8K mega film... Thats 'SO' last week girlfriend and we only usually except HDultimate which comes out tomorrow at 4pm"... Please think about our offer and get back to us a.s.a.p

Thanks again for your submission

Ivor Bigun

BBGEO topgeezer

So there you have it folks...

Dive safe

DeanB

Dean...

Lay off the drugs man, seriously brother, they are turning you weird(er)!

You say that is if that is a bad thing?