Hello all, wanted to pass this info along to see what people think and perhaps get the word out about the way my wife and I were treated after a nightmare dive in the Somosomo Strait:

If anyone is familiar with the Great White Wall that will make this easier to explain perhaps.

My wife has about 90-100 logged dives and grew up diving so she's not an unexperienced diver just to preface.

We were on our first outing with Aqua Trek Diving which is located at the Garden Island Resort in Taveuni Fiji. The morning of our checkin the staff, especially one woman, was rather unfriendly which is unusual for a diveshop but quite a few people from a returning group of divers had stated how good the dive shop was so we trusted their advice.

We were heading to the Great White Wall which is a big wall dive where you go around a coral formation, through a small nook in the coral formation, and then descend through a hole and out through the face of a big White Wall. We had just purchased a new housing for our D300 and were pressure testing it without the camera and my wife had it. The unfriendly woman in the dive shop was going to be our group leader on the dive and she tried to give my wife 12lbs of weight(my wife is 5' 7" and weight 120lbs) but my wife took 8lbs instead as she didn't realize how buoyant the housing would be.

Anyway, as we descended in a current(a strong one to be fair) my wife couldn't descend due to the buoyancy of the camera so she went back up to the boat to give the camera back to the captain and continue the dive. The divemaster saw her and my wife made an "I'll be right back signal" and we rounded the coral formation and headed into the crevice in the coral formation towards the tunnel which you swim through to go to the tunnel. As we arrived my wife still hadn't returned. The divemaster sent 3 women together through the tunnel in what I deem a fairly strong current. I was somewhat uncomfortable with the strength of it but I was with the divemaster and clung to a rock. I motioned that I didn't know where my wife was and the divemaster told me to wait. She swam up to the boat apparently, came back down, and told me to partner with her and head through the tunnel.

MY ASSUMPTION: The housing had a big problem, my wife didn't want to leave it on the boat if it leaked without rinsing it, or something. I FULLY assumed that my wife was on the boat since the divemaster told me to partner with her and go through.

We went through the tunnel and were diving for a total of about 30 minutes when my wife appeared out of nowhere, the void that is. I could tell she was peeved but assumed it had something to do with the camera and just tried to enjoy the dive.

Our divemaster ran out of air a full 10 minutes before any of the rest of us and left the group in the current alone as we finished our dive.

When we surfaced I could tell my wife was angry, she was really pissed.

Apparently what happened is that she went up to hand the camera(this took a total of 4 minutes), when she returned below she couldn't find us since the divemaster chose to go around the first coral head without waiting, and my wife had to resurface. The boat captain told her that there were bubbles below and that she should dive there. So my wife descended again and started searching in the wild blue for us, in a rather strong current mind you.

When the divemaster had ascended while I waited outside the tunnel she saw no sign of my wife, went up to the boat and saw that she wasn't there, and continued with the dive anyway. To me this is disgustingly egregious. In a current that strong my wife could have been easily 1 mile from the dive site after 30 minutes.

We confronted her on the boat and she snapped back "I told you to take 12lbs, it was your fault!" Then some other guy who wasn't in our group decided to interject and state that it was my wife's fault...I later learned from the dive shop manager this guy has some strange love for the dive shop workers and was just being emotionally defensive it seems.

Anyway, post dive we tried to talk to the dive shop "manager" so he told us and he told us that others in the group (the emotional man) told him it was our fault which he couldn't have possibly known anything about since he was in the 1st group and not our group. The three women in our group also said they felt very uncomfortable with the divemaster. The dive shop "manager" told us never to dive with them again, etc.

I asked the divemaster for her certification card so I could report her to PADI. She didn't have her card and refused to bring it the following day. She did however write down her number.

This was all an uncomfortable point of staying where we were even though we found another dive shop and had a boat to ourselves with two wonderful guys the following few diving days.

Am I crazy to think that the divemaster was completely in the wrong to know that a diver was lost in the water by herself and just continue on the dive? Isn't it her responsibility to take care that people are safe? Granted, I was alone but she knew exactly where I was and the 3 other women who went through the hole had been diving with the diveshop for a few days and were indeed all together and near to the 1st group of divers. My wife was certainly the only one who was "lost" and the divemaster let it slide and went on with the dive anyway.

Any input or comments would be appreciated. Thanks.

It sounds to me like a somewhat inexperienced divemaster was at the helm of your dive group. A good divemaster will never split a group, no matter what the conditions, especially if there are "unknowns" in the group. . You and your wife on this particular dive constitute the "unknown" as it was your first dive with the operation. I am quite surprised that a weight check was not done at the surface prior to attempting a descent as you had new equipment in hand. This simple check could have avoided the problem before it began. While the divemaster should have reminded you of this, the diver also bears responsibility.
As to the rude behavior, there is no excuse and shows the inexperience of your dive professional. "The best defense is a good offense" was in play.
Quite happy to hear that you found a better group to play with though!
Safe diving.
M

Really bad treatment, poor management, have you put a report on Trip Advisor or similar?

I'd also write to some of the dive magazines that have a balanced letters page, or maybe write about it as a "It happened to me" type article for the sort of back page many magazines appear to have.

Shoddy treatment like this is inexcusable - use the power of Web 2.0 to make your voice known.

Safe diving

I don't see the issue quite the way you guys do. I think maybe there is also some fault to be laid at your feet. In my world, I am responsible for my safety, not some poor overworked dive guide. You folks did some things to put yourselves in a very unsafe position. You're not alone though, lots of folks do the same things, I think the best thing you can do is take some responsibility for what happened and learn from it, so you'll be safer next time. You may not want to hear it but I'll try to show you what you might have done differently.

The number of dives someone has made has little to do with the safety factor. Has she dove that spot with that gear, in those conditions? If I understand you correctly, Nope, first time with the camera. First dive of the trip.


So if I understand, the diveguide suggested 12 lbs and you said no thanks I'll take 8? and this is her fault? Next time you go on a trip use the first opportunity to get in the water with your gear and check your weights. Before the boat leaves the dock. Things change, different tanks have different bouyancy, different gear, new wetsuit, maybe you gained or lost a few pounds. The experienced divers I know are moving 1 lb wts around to get not just their wt but their attitude in the water right. You failed to check out your gear and that is your responsibility.
Let's stop right there. You let your dive buddy go back to the boat and you kept descending to 80 ft in a strong current? Sorry partner that makes no sense to me. I'll ignore the fact that the "I'll be right back signal" could have been something else entirely. You left your wife and maybe worse your new camera (just kidding). Resonable thing to do at this point is abort, you guys weren't ready to go. No shame in that. Hard to do, first dive, we all feel the pressure to go. That's how people get hurt. Your divemaster could have been wearing a clown suit and been in a super mood up to that point, but divemasters get stressed when they leave the boat with 5 and get to the hole in the reef with 4. If you stress people like that some will react negatively.



Just for the record your rude divemaster went looking to see if your wife was in trouble while you clung to a rock.

Putting aside the old joke about assumptions, you were mistaken, you did not know where your wife was and you did nothing.

Maybe because she was looking all over the ocean for your wife?

I agree, and you would have been responsible.

I'd love to know what the etc. was. Do you realize how bad you have to screw up to have a guy tell you not to come back? I'm afraid partner your not listening. Three different folks other than the divemaster are trying to tell you something and your not hearing it.

No, absolutely not. It is your responsibility. There are a couple of things you could have done as noted above and none of this would have happened. I sure hope so. It is far too easy to smear someones reputation on the internet where thousands of people will read it and the "accused" cannot answer for themselves.

Look partner, I can understand that you guys were righteously frightened by the way this went down. That's OK, anybody would have been. I just don't think blaming some dive guide is going to help you in the long run. It doesn't matter if she was rude or not. If you don't want to listen to me go talk to the folks who certified you and see what they think, Ask yourself what you could have done differently to avoid the dangerous situation you were in. Good luck and dive safe!

Steve

Steve I agree 100% with you. I was infact typing something similiar when your reponse came up and saved me the effort. Also yours is better.
Now I don't want to sling any mud but I have several divemaster/guides as friends and frankly some of the things they have to put up with are amazing. Now I don't condone the rude behavior from the dive guide but she had 5 people to deal with not only you and your wife. She gave good advise which was ignored.
From what you have written I guess you expected the dive to be aborted because of the problems with the additional bouyancy of the housing. I certainly would have been vocal if I had been in your group and yes your wife would have been blamed as she choice to ignore sound advise.
Sorry for being so blunt.

As a matter if interest how much weight did she use in the following days?

Thanks for the replies. I take all of them to heart.

Regarding me messing up and not sticking with my wife/dive buddy that is correct, I was partially at fault and learned a valuable lesson.

The divemaster only went up to the boat to check for my wife at my insistence underwater and repeatedly told me to stay and I was stuck to a rock in a strong current holding on. I am not nearly as experienced as my wife or the divemaster and I erred as well. Her seeing that my wife was not on the boat and knowing that she was not on the boat and not doing something other than continuing with the dive was inexcusable. If you were a divemaster and you knew that one of the members of the group, the only one who's position was unknown, was not with the group or on the boat in a strong current would you carry on with the dive as usual? If you don't answer that question please don't bother responding.

My wife and I both learned valuable lessons.

The dive guide was in a horrible mood from the get-go Steve...sorry to disappoint you. Also, regarding your lightly veiled slight at me regarding what three people said about it being our fault, one wasn't in our group and had no idea what happened and the only other responded that way out of defensive posturing which was later confirmed with the real manager of the dive shop. Again, sorry to disappoint you.

While it's clear that we made some misjudgements, you should probably ask any divemaster who has a clue whether they would split up the group(in this case sending the 3 women through the tunnel) before going to look for my wife. Up to that point the only separated party was my wife, the divemaster is the one who split up the group herself.

In response to the question about the weights, my wife used 8lbs the following days. The first dive was without camera and therefore the housing was positively buoyant, the following dives with the camera it was negatively buoyant.

Thanks for the all the replies and I'm not looking for backpatting but I'm not looking for Steve-like-replies which turn the incident on its head. The divemaster is a group leader who should keep the group together(especially if one party is missing) and is only leading people who are unqualified to lead themselves in a location that they don't know. Some people seem to forget that this is a recreational sport.

Thanks and while there are lessons learned I staunchly know the divemaster was heavily in the wrong since the one thing she did know was that she DIDN'T know where my wife was and went on with the dive anyway.

If someone is missing from a group on a dive site that they haven't visited before then yes the dive should have been called. I'm surprised this was not mentioned in the briefing. Normally if you are lost after a minute you should surface and check for the missing group especially when the missing diver is in the blue and cannot see the wall.
Clearly you have learnt from this episode and I bet it never happens again. I am sure the diveguide has also learnt from the same episode and the experience gained will hopefully prevent a reoccurence of this type of incident in the future. But remember prople are not born knowing it all, that comes from experience and wanting to cruxify someone for a bad day is rather unfair.
Now if a dozen people come on here complaining about the same guide then fine, string her up.

As it was we were told that others had complained about this particular dive guide previously. Who knows as we weren't there but I wouldn't doubt it based on the way we were treated.

Normally I would live and let live but in this scenario I honestly do feel that what the divemaster did was so careless that(if she really has been a divemaster for 10 years) she should lose her license. I've seen divemasters do things that made me shake my head a number of times but never something that seemed to put someone(or the group for that matter, by splitting us up before going to look for my wife) in such a position as leaving their position unknown for the duration of a dive without alerting anyone.

I feel worse than anyone as I now know that I should have surfaced with my wife instead of descending and sticking to the group. I am still inexperienced to a large degree and I know that...it's why I pay someone a good amount of money to supervise for our safety. My wife spent some time crying and quite a while totally shaken up about the incident but luckily came to realize that it was a particular instance of something gone wrong. It wasn't a small mishap but a huge problem that luckily didn't turn out to be a person lost at sea.

Cheers.

I am glad that we get to hear about both points of view. I think in situations like this it's good to put yourself in the other person's shoes and see the situation from their side. Hopefully everyone can benefit from this thread.

Cheers
James

I know if this had happened to us my wife would be kicking my ass, not the dive guides. I don't know how it came about but you have no business on the GWW on the first dive of a trip. The GWW is well know as a potentially difficult dive: deep, shear dropoff, strong currents. I have done it a couple of times and it is definitely not the place to be sorting your bouyancy or trying a new camera setup.

Like I said, I don't know how you ended up on that dive. Maybe you overstated your ability. It sounds like you probably came off a little cocky by ignoring the DM's advice on weight. But the bottom line is, YOU are responsible for your own safety and that of your buddy. You made the decision to go on that dive and got in over your head.

In the end the only thing hurt was your pride and maybe you ass after your wife got through kicking it. Take it for what it is, a lesson learned

In retrospect it was a bad dive to take a new camera on. Perhaps if someone in the diveshop had been nice and conversed with us we would have known...knowing nothing other than that the GWW is a famous dive on the Rainbow Reef we had no clue. I'm not blaming them but we had no clue.

Didn't overstate any ability. I, as well as my wife, will be the first one to tell you we're none too fond of strong currents. We even mentioned it on the boat I'm sure and the guide said it wouldn't be too strong.

My wife wasn't being cocky at all, just inexperienced with a professional housing for the camera. We're the ignorant students...you can't learn if you're not taught. Know what I mean? Those who are preaching how it was all our fault would do well to realize that...we learned more than a few lessons but the hard way, there was perhaps and easier one...the dive guide could have suggested hopping in with weights to test the camera, but instead the crew was rather unattentive and unfriendly and didn't suggest anything. We were ignorant about that fact and now we're not.

Cheers and thanks...you put your criticism in a far less snide and rude way than others and for that I can thank you.

Wait!

I am the one who was there, not even my husband witnessed it...

1. I knew since i got in the water that I should have checked the buoyancy of the camera first.

2. I ASKED the dive master why she gave me 12lb, instead of replying to my question she got upset and told the other dive master to give me what I wanted, I asked the other dive guide the same question and he only replied with his shoulders as "I don't know" since we didn't get anything but a bad attitude from these people since the beginning this didn't surprise me.

3. I usually use 6lb, I took 9lb so I was aware that the housing would be buoyant.

4. I signaled the to wait for me, my dive computer recorded it took me 3 min to go back down, that's how long it took her to leave me...In all the dives I've been I had never seen a dive master abandoning a diver before going to check on him, I've waited 15 min for people to go down, it is all about safety and that's why people dive with guides and in groups.

5. YES i almost kicked my husband's ass as soon as we surfaced, but I understand he is not as experienced and he had never experience such a current, and he never thought the dive master would just go and tell him to continue the dive with her without knowing where I was...dive master are certified professionals and this one wasn't suppose to be the exception.


I've always been very aware of what other people are doing, I know that diving is a team sport (at least that's one of my main principles in this matter) lesson learned, I won't ever rely on someone else, next time I'll make the simple buoyancy test that would have saved us from experiencing this matter.

Thank you all for your comments, I know it is easy to misjudge without witnessing.

Hi tscher, welcome to wetpixel. Glad you explained a little more. So you understand where I was coming from, I get concerned when anyone gets held up for ridicule on the net, and especially here on Wetpixel. The diving community is really a very small place. There are always two sides to a story (if not four or five) and when someone gets dumped on red flags go up. The main thing I reacted to was the assumption in the earlier posts that the divemaster was responsible for your safety. I just don't see it that way. And I think it's a dangerous assumption to operate with for exactly the reasons you discovered. Granted dive guides are trained professionals, but I don't want to bet my life on somebody I don't know. It's my contention that I'm the one responsible for my dive buddy and my own safety. If there is a guide along who can show me some cool stuff, great but that is all I ask from them. We may not agree on that and that's OK I guess. Just be sure you tell your divemaster your expectations before you leave the dock. I'm sure everybody learned something and that's a good thing. I do fault the dive shop for putting you guys on that spot, in current on your first dive of the trip. It's just not typically done anymore because a bunch of us only get to dive two or three trips a year and we can be rusty. We always try to get in a short dip when we get to a location to check out that our gear made it OK and get weighted for the conditions.

I'm very glad you had a good time for the rest of your trip. Getting back to what Wetpixel is all about, Did you get any pictures to post? How did the new camera work out? I hope you find the time to enjoy all the great info here and use Wetpixel to your advantage. Dive safe.

Steve

Thanks for the welcoming and your comments.

I have always been very responsible for my dives, I grew up in a family of dive instructors and I was taught by the older ways (which were way more challenging than nowadays). If i was so upset is because we are out here paying good money expecting good service in a recreational sport, and they were really irresponsible. I wasn't expecting the DM to take my hand all the way through the dive or to check my air every 5 min, I know very well what I am supposed to do and what not, but it seemed really unethical to me and against every values regarding a qualified DM to abandon somebody without saying a word. If I could dive by myself then I'd do it, the truth is that I am not certified or qualified to do that and these people get paid to guide divers through sites they had never been before, and they didn't even explain the hazardous conditions of the dive.

After the dive I couldn't help wondering what would have happened if this was one of my first dives, or what if that happened to my husband....it is a scary thought, specially when somebody could go so easy about ignoring a missing person in the middle of the ocean in such a strong current.

I've been diving for 12 years now and I have very little dives logged for that time, so I don't considered myself the most experienced person, and there are people even less experienced practicing this sport having to deal with this kind of people, do you know what I mean? it sucks that I learned this lesson this way, but i am sure that something as simple as a DM answering a simple question as "why so much weight?" could have avoided fatal accidents/

Anyway...the camera is awesome!! really it is a world of difference to take pics with a D300 compared to a smaller canon 640. And yes! I will try to post my not so bad pics soon.

Cheers!
Tatiana

Thanks Tatiana, Looking forward to seeing some pictures. Let us know which housing you have too.

Steve

Yes what type of housing and which strobe set up?
I will be taking my D300 into the water for the first time next month and would really like to know which housing you have?

I have an Aquatica, it is really good housing, it might be a bit more expensive than the Ikelite but it offers so much more value, specially for a camera such as a D300.

It is really easy to handle, even lighter underwater than the one I had for my small camera.

I will be happy to answer any questions you have regarding the camera or the housing (according to my little experience though) I've enjoyed a lot taking pics with it so far, we've taken it in about 10 dives now and it is so much easier and nicer than the smaller models.

Cheers
tscher

As you posted here looking for comments, I'll offer one ... and please take this as it was intended - constructive criticism. I know first-hand how scary a dive-related "accident" can be ... I had an out-of-air experience a few years ago at 30M in the middle of the Persian Gulf that scared the P*SS out of me. While there were definitely others who contributed to that day's event, at the end of the day it was my life and my responsibility.

In my opinion, you are being unfair to the dive master. After you chose to resurface after the initial descent and left the group in a challenging environment, you probably should have stayed topside. I have never returned to depth after an unplanned surfacing - even if that means I have to swim topside quite a ways to get to the boat.

I don't know the signal for "wait here, I'm unexpectedly going up to the boat for some reason - but I'll be back and I expect you to wait here until I return." That's a fairly complex expression to get across to someone underwater whom you've just met ...

I'm with you in some repects Jeremy, I think communication is the key to this scenario. We can't expect new divers to be able to understand all the non verbal stuff we use underwater. It takes a while even for people who spend a lot of time together on land to be able to read each others minds underwater. Once Tatiana was in the water on the dive, I think she did the right thing though, she did a great job of following the bubbles back down to her buddy and got back together with the group. I would have done the same thing in her place. I'd bet most of us have been seperated from the group at one time or another, you just get back together and go on. I had an interesting experience on my wife's first open water dive in Cayman many years ago. She had about 10 Califiornia dives under her belt at the time. There is a pinnacle on the west side of the island that comes up to 80 ft. from a depth of about 300 ft. It's about 40 ft. wide at the top. Our group consisted of 6 friends and the guide. On our descent I noticed one of the other divers didn't look right. The group was headed down and he was bringing up the rear at about 30'. I swam over closer and saw his eyes were rolled back in his head and he was losing it. I got him back to the surface where he came to and we got him back on the boat. He found out the hard way it's not recommended to try and drink the airplane dry then dive the next morning. My wife meanwhile was somewhere below me headed toward I knew not where. I still hold the unofficial record for descending to 80 ft. She was fine of course and was merrily enjoying the new experience, my other friends had joined up with her when they saw what I was up to. There was no way I was going to stay with the boat with my inexperienced wife somewhere below me. We have since learned to dive together and communicate much better. In her couple of thousand dives since that day we have descended together and can read each others mind. Every situation is different, we have to make the calls based on our experience and the conditions. Im not saying your wrong. I just think Tatiana did the right thing in that situation and I sincerely hope that she and her husband have many years of enjoyable dives ahead of them. Hey Tatiana, if you read this tell your husband " We need to work on our communication" we just love to hear that.

Steve

Yeah I have ordered the aquatica housing aswell.
Hopefully here within the week.

I totally hear you loud and clear and let me also say I too am glad everyone was ok and wish the couple many happy and safe dives in the future.

Steve, you are right ... the choice to rejoin the dive after surfacing was just that - a choice to be made by the diver and based on his or her judgement and the conditions. Personally, particularly with a strong current, there's no way I'm going chasing bubbles of divers I can't see on a site I've never dove ... but that's me. I can respect that a spouse or other loved one - particluarly one less experienced - in that group could significantly influence the decision. My wife does not dive, but someday I hope my son and daughter will.

I still think they are being too hard on the dive master. They made her job very hard by first ignoring her advice and then trying to audible a new plan underwater and expecting her to understand all the nuances.

"Plan the dive, dive the plan." Any time you stray from a dive plan without a rock solid new one, you risk exactly the kind of confusion that clearly resulted on this dive.

i read the accounts of those involved, and tried to put myself in the shoes of the dive guide because i'm positive this is going to happen to me one of these days when i lead some divers on a trip.

here's my 'analysis' and conclusion:

facts
1. i have 3 divers around the other side of the coral formation in a strong current.
2. i have another diver with me
3. all 4 divers are pretty deep, and cannot hang around for 15 minutes without aborting the dive.
4. i have another diver who just went up to the boat and didn't come back.

the logical thing i'd do is to quickly pop back up the boat (i hate see-saw profiles!), check if the lady is at the boat. but i'd really want all 4 divers in the water to be together, so i send the guy to join the other 3 ladies first before i head up to the boat.

when i get up to the boat, the boat man says "yeah she came up, then went back down to look for you guys."

now, i didn't see the lady on my way up, so i have no idea where she went. assuming there was a dive briefing and she knew the dive plan and general direction, she could have carried on the dive. i still have 4 divers down at 80 ft in a strong current. my panties are starting to feel a little twisted here. so i tell the boat guy to keep an eye out for the missing lady, i'm going to get my 4 divers in the water and maybe carry on with the dive and see if i can find her along the way.

i descend again and catch the other 4 divers still waiting there and see no sign of the missing lady. it's big blue ocean, with a wall on one side. maybe she's just further up the wall? or could she have given up and gone back to the boat? urgh

so i have 2 options now, carry on the dive and see if she's ahead, or abort the dive and hope the lady's on the boat. if i abort the dive and she's not on the boat, i can't call search and rescue yet because it's only 10 minutes. plus these 4 (maybe 3, cos the husband is going to be worried) customers are going to be pissed at me if i say we all surface, so let's just see if she's further along the wall. in any case, i don't know where to search for her because i haven't seen her at all when i went up and down the line, and the boatman's watching out on the surface.

so yup, chances are i'd carry on the dive. but then again, if it were a strong current, i'd go with the current or abort the dive right from the start and try someplace else. but i guess this wasn't an option you had at that particular site.

to be fair, i would have gone up together with the lady and her camera, after getting the 4 divers in the water together. if it were not possible, then let the 3 who had gone on ahead to wait, and gone up with the man and the lady instead of sending the man to join the other 3.

i'm not saying it's anyone's fault, more like a series of unfortunate events and miscommunication made worse by not following safe community standards (surfacing without the buddy, going back down alone when unsure of the dive site).

i'm glad you guys came back safe! and thanks for providing this classroom learning activity for me to think it through.

Having personally performed the exact dive in question a few times, I have a small addition to the overall fine discussion above.

This dive drops through a cave to about 80 feet as mentioned, exits into fast current on a deep but magnificent wall and requires good bouyancy control. You must watch your depth as its all too easy to watch the lovely sites and miss depth control and find yourself way too deep. This should have been explained in the pre-dive, as it was on all my dives there albeit with a different dive shop. Wall dive, fast current, cave swim through (really a drop through) - all spelling exact bouyancy control.

If this information was presented in the pre-dive discussion as it should have been, one thing should be clear - its NOT the time for new large volume equipment testing.
Add to this your discussion sounds like the first dive of the vacation and it all spells... BE EXTRA CAREFUL.

All the discussion about staying with buddy, being rude to others, etc is worthwhile and accurate.

But the pre-dive briefing should have warned you to leave the case in the boat, regardless of weight selection, etc.

The shore in front of GIR would be a more likely place for testing bouyancy in perhaps 5-8 ft of water, etc. I did not stay at GIR so I am not certain of that shore but the shore in other parts of the island would allow that testing.

HTH,

Dave

I have dived (If you can call what we did a dive) this wall and it aint easy. 4 or 5 of us did this dive and the current was one of the strongest I have been in. We followed our dive guide and had some horrendous bottom rock hauling across a gully and then swam between some boulders and turned into the current the only person who could swim against this was the Very Fit Fijian dive guide. The rest of us were blown to all points of the compass and I made one of my worst ascents ever.

Where we went sounds nothing like Diver Daves over view of the approach to the wall but I did see some great soft coral in my early attempt to swim against this current. As I was rolled over in the current on my way to the surface I remember thinking boy this ain't the easiest dive I have done.

I've done over 2000 dives and been in strange situations but where we went ain't for the unfit or the faint hearted on their first dive. Any talk of strong current unless it's a drift dive always brings my antenna to full attention.

I was glad to be out of there.

You are right Steve, I wouldn't have quit the dive knowing my husband had only a few dives of experience with a guide that abandoned someone else! Ever since then my husband has improved in staying close and trying to find out what's going on with each othere during the dive.

And Jeremy, the "I'll be right back" signal I used for diving is the same one you would have used outside when you are not diving...there are many ways to signal someone to wait or that you'll be there soon when they are far away, if you can't think of any way on which you can signal something like that then you must really have problems communicating uderwater because sometimes it takes creativity to express yourself downthere, don't yout think?

Dear Jeremy, I don't think you are reading this thread well...As I explained on previous posts, I took more weight than I usually take thinking of the buoyancy of the housing, I asked the divemaster why she gave me so much weight and she couldn't answer she had a bad attitude since the beginning. During the briefing no one talked about strong currents or wrong conditions for trying new equipment. I tried to follow the plan but it wasn't possible, it took me 4 min to solve my problem and go back down and be left by myself.

Thank you antacid,

I really appreciate the opinion of a divemaster...I wish this lady would have been as communicative as you because since the beginning she refused to play her leader role and focus her attention on being rude.

I totally understand that a real divemaster would have been totally stressed through the situation, but she totally seemed to ignore any trouble, she didn't tell the boat that I was missing, she didn't answer my questions, she abandoned the group when she was running out of air.

Anyway, I think that if this ever happens to you, you'll be able to answer any questions that divers might ask, you'll talk for yourself instead of refusing to explain why you did what you did, and overall you won't lie about the facts.

Tatiana,

I don't and didn't intend to pick a fight ... but I'd like to make a couple points since you seem to want to keep this going ...

I found it a bit unkind to trash someone on a public forum without the opportunity for that individual to respond ... so I took the divemaster's side to give her a voice.

In my opinion, you still don't seem to be taking much responsibility for what happened. You and your decisions played a HUGE role in this fortunately harmless episode of underwater confusion.

I'm glad you are ok ... really ... but I think you need to examine your own contribution to this incident more closely.

Best,
Jeremy

In my opinion, you still don't seem to be taking much responsibility for what happened. You and your decisions played a HUGE role in this fortunately harmless episode of underwater confusion.

I'm glad you are ok ... really ... but I think you need to examine your own contribution to this incident more closely.

Best,
Jeremy
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I am with Jeremy and a couple of others on this one.

A dive guide or an unknown buddy are there for the guideance of fools. If you put your faith in them rather than yourself you are swimming in dangerous waters. The guides primary role in my life is to find stuff not to ensure I survive the dive. That is my responsibility and nobody else's.

A woman on a boat in PNG a couple of years ago died 2 weeks after I went on the same trip and all she needed to survive losing her mask in a strong current, whilst hooked on, was a knife. Was it the guides fault she didnt take a knife or her husbands who was right next to her when she drowned. What I am saying is there are a thousand simple ways to die down there. If you read the death reports and take note of techniques from other good divers you are minimising the chances that the next one might be you.

My view is you took a chance and you both came out it OK make the most of it.

Onwards and Upwards.

Ardy

all the gear, no idea. springs to mind.

100 dives in 10 years, i would not call that experienced. what kind of dives were the 100. were they adrenalin challenging current dives. it doesnt sound like it.

you say that you both are not keen on strong currents. you should have done your homework prior to purchasing your plane ticket. you seem to find the internet a great source for slagging people off, but not for research.
i have not dived this particular dive but i have dived a lot of maldivian channels and the strong waters of komodo, galapagos and cocos. i always make a point of asking about current strength prior to getting on a boat. if it is likely to be too strong, and we are going to be fighting the current then my rig stays behind. if it is a drift, then i will take it. the best images you can have are the ones that stay in your heads hard drive ( your brain ) i will always add a few kilos to compensate my dome and a couple for the current. i use 4k in a 3mm wetsuit in clam tropical waters. add 1 or 2 if i am diving in a strong current and need to get down pretty fast, and add 2 to compensate my dome.

one of the best dives i have done was in komodo - cannibal rock. the briefing was expect to be fighting very strong currents. when i hear the words " fighting and very " that is an indication to me to leave the rig behind. we dove here twice and both times we see the biggest scools of fish that we have ever seen. ok i have no photos of this but i can still remember the dive for its beauty and not for things that went wrong.

how do you both communicate to each other underwater, hand signals alone!
do you not having rattles or tank clangers that you could use to comunicate. my buddy and i have tunes that we do with ours that mean certain things. it might be an idea to get some more new toys and get some communication sounds sorted between you. ie. 3 taps followed by a pause and then 3 taps and so on means i am at 5 mtrs doing a safety stop and the boat is above my bubbles. it might sound stupid to some reading this but it works. use other tunes for other meanings.

i have seen this kind of scenario quite a few times, not the scenario of the guide, but of inexperienced divers taking top of the range rigs on a dive that they do not have the experience to dive without a rig, let alone with a barnd new rig that they havent used.

the person here that i would put at fault would be the female diver. not the guide. she should not have gone back down after getting to the surface. ok she might have seen bubbles from the a distance, but to try and fight a current and catch up is not the thing to have done. i might be mistaken but i do not recall hearing that the 3 other divers that were left on their own made any complaints of being left to themselves. perhaps they were experienced divers and didnt even notice that you had gone awol. i for one would have been pretty pi$$ed if the dive was aborted due to the facts that you have written.

the main thing is you are both here to tell the story.

When I dive with my wife, I stick to her like glue. I think there should be a clear understanding, I go up - she goes up and if she goes up, I go up. I think particularly on new dives this is a good rule, for safety and marital bliss. I think all this could have been avoided if you guys had done this, even if you then decided to abort the dive.

Hi folks

I'll try not to repeat comments already made by others, but here's my viewpoint.

I tend to lean towards the views of Steve and Jeremy though it seems there were errors on both sides. My criticism of anyone involved though is offerred cautiously - as I wasnt there.

1. In terms of who should be doing the dive, there is responsibility on both sides. A wall dive in strong currents is ALWAYS a challenging dive. Now around a hundred dives over a 12 year period is not that many dives, so its not s good indicator of your experience - as you already have said. There operator/divemaster has some responsibility to ensure that inexperienced divers are not taken on dives beyond there current level of competence. When you dive with a diveguide they are exactly that - a guide to an unfamiliar dive site, not someone who is there to instruct on a one-to-one basis. Therefore there MAY, I stress may, be issues as to the whether you were both questioned fully about your experience and given correct advice about the level of experience required. If your husband had considerably less experience then one wonders whether he should have been there. Having said that, your both adults. There's lots of info available about the Great White Wall. You both knew how much diving you'd done and in what conditions better than anyone.

2. WEIGHT. A large SLR camera housing sans camera will be VERY bouyant. If you weren't aware of that beforehand it should have been immediately obvious as soon as you tried to leave the surface. Additionally, in strong current you will often need additional weight to prevent yourself being 'lifted and blown away' in the tidal stream. Maybe you should have been given advice on this by the divemaster, however if you undertake a challenging dive with a large expensive camera housing maybe you should fully understand what is required. It is true that divemasters often assume that people with professional looking camera setups are going to be very experienced and don't give them as much attention as they would otherwise.

3. SEPERATION. I've been diving for a few decades but, like jeremy, I don't know the 'wait-a-minute-I'm just-popping-to-the-surface-I'll-be-right-back' signal either. No guide or instructor likes their group being seperated as they then lose control of the situation. If you are descending in fairly strong current, mid-water without a shotline, as I interpret the description then the guide only has two choices: bring all the group back to the surface - if she can, or continue down to the reef. She cannot wait mid-water. Now maybe this should have been more carefully stressed during the briefing, but at this point the fault is yours. You've started a group dive inadequately prepared and so have had to abort your descent. The giude is then in a very tricky position. Does she try to bring all divers back to the surface, or does she sit and wait for you.

4. BUBBLES. 'The boat captain told her that there were bubbles below and that she should dive there' Bad errors on both sides here. But maybe the captain wasn't a diver, so not the person to take advice from. Could you clearly see the bubbles? It would be an extremely bad idea to get in the water because someone else thought they could see bubbles. Also, in a strong current the bubbles will stream and so surface well downstream of the divers. If you enter where the bubbles are, you will have to swim down and make headway upstream to have any chance of joining them. Not at all easy in the conditions you describe, especially when you have already descended and ascended and are then going to make a challenging dive.

5. LOST DIVER. This is possibly one area where the operation should have maybe, maybe taken it more seriously. True, the guide dive surface and look for you, and she dive have four other divers to look after. Should she have aborted the dive? got all four back to the surface? Was she able to do so immadiately, given the conditions and that three had already gone ahead? A tough call and one I wouldn't criticise her actions for without knowing exactly how and when things happened.

Hoping airing this publicly, as you have, has been useful for many of us. Rather than focus on individuals, it may be better to look at what lessons come out of it, and be thankful that nobody was hurt. Final point. Its always easy to be wise after the event. 20/20 hindsight is a great thing - if you can have it in advance. In the heat of the moment we all make mistakes and our armchair cristicisms should bear this in mind.

Regards

Colin

I am really disappointed to see so much unconstructive comment on Wetpixel.

If you have never made a mistake underwater, you haven't dived enough. Cameras and currents are always tricky.

If you haven't put your housing in a swimming pool, you haven't done your homework before travelling. Of course, sometimes the housing appears at the last minute...

If you think all dive guides are enormously experienced and will look after you at all times, then you haven't been living on the planet for long! Guides don't, necessarily, have experience of the needs of photographers.

I'm glad no-one came to harm.

I wonder what the guide's story is...

Live and learn!

Tim

To whom is that directed?

If one insists on following buddy diving protocol, what is the rule? If you're separated from your buddy search for them for about a minute and then surface. That didn't appear to be followed. Divemasters cannot force you to stay in the water if a safety factor is injected into the dive and you, as a the affected diver, need to act on the issue. Taking responsibility for your concerns is your call and how you handle that is your call, not the sole responsibility of the DM.

Now for the resort, I personally don't like unfriendly staff as it makes you feel unwelcome, a burder and that they don't care about you. Who wants to dive with that? Just don't recommend them. I wouldn't.


Joe

[quote name='tdpriest' date='May 30 2008, 01:35 PM' post='171574']
I am really disappointed to see so much unconstructive comment on Wetpixel.


digit1981 wrote "Hello all, wanted to pass this info along to see what people think"

people have written what they think, whether the OP agree's or not, or whether any other individual agrees or disagrees; this is a forum, a place to openly discuss

Some of the posts are critical of the guide, some of the dive operation and some of the divers...

... none of which helps anyone make better images.

Like all critical incidents and "near misses", a whole series of steps lead to the point of danger. Divers should recognise that an event as fraught as this is likely the result of actions and reactions by several people at several times.

I know, I've been there, I've said angry and unhelpful things, too...

Tim

Tim,

I think you are wrong here. The gentleman posted his thoughts in "crazy dive stories and trip reports" so I see nothing wrong with his post. Fault? That is another issue but not all trip reports and experiences are directly related to taking a better picture. Do a search on WP and you'll find plenty of threads with zero reference to imagery. Posters in this thread are expressing their opinions on the limited anecdotal data we have and that is what forum discussions are all about. If everything were black and white we would have no forum discussions. That's what makes this fun, right? I think Steve and others have pointed out VERY VALUABLE and useful opinions for others to use and embrace when they take their trips. I have had several friends die over the years in diving accidents and I have found that discussing their deaths and how they died helps me be a better diver by trying to avoid the mistakes they made or the situations they were put in. This guy's post does the same thing...it makes people think and that is a VALUABLE LESSON.

Just my thoughts, of course and I mean no ill will against you. I just feel that this post is actually delivering lots of value by constructively discussing the issue, breaking it down and anlyzing the "what if's".

Joe

Others have commented, so this may be a bit redundant, but I don't follow you here.

This is the Crazy Dive Stories forum ... the gentleman posted a crazy dive story and asked for comments and opinions ... Others (I included) gave their comments and opinions ... I (for one) tilted my comments "in favor" of the dive guide for two reasons - 1) Sounded to me like the folks weren't taking responsibility for their role in this mishap; and 2) the dive guide couldn't defend herself.

I think we kept it civil and constructive and I'm not sure where "better images" should have come into play.

I don't get it.

Maybe the guide wasn't friendly. Maybe she's a jerk. I'm not clear what she did wrong with regard to you and your wife.

Whether to send the other three on was judgment call.

It wasn't her job to make sure your wife rejoined the group. If I was one of the other divers and I had to waste my precious dive time while your wife went back to the boat for God knows how long, I would have been pissed. How long was everybody supposed to wait? If you wife didn't return in 15 minutes, should the entire group then abort the dive, not knowing if she stayed on the boat or returned only to be missing?

Once a diver returns to the boat, the guide is responsible for the rest of the group. The decision to rejoin the group by said diver is an individual decision and in reality a solo dive until the group is rejoined. It is not the responsibility of the guide to ensure that the diver returns to the group.

Perhaps, if you feel the need for a guide, you should also dive as a buddy team.

When, the guide didn't find your wife, what was she supposed to do? Keep waiting? Go find everyone else (another full task in itself) and abort the dive? Then what? Begin search patterns?

I've had to abort dives and stayed on the boat. I've aborted dives and rejoined the group. My call as to whether I would try to find them. I've ended doing solo dives, never finding the group. I never expected that anyone should be hunting for me.

Either one or both of you should have stayed on the boat and allowed the guide to actually guide the remaining divers.

Tim in discussions like this one it is impossible to be 'nice' to everyone and get the information that this thread holds. There is some extremely valuable information here for new and maybe not so new divers. If we were totally polite to the husband and wife and left them feeling that their complaints were valid what would be the point of this debate. The husband and wife have opened a great thread and we should be grateful for that but this is a discussion that could save someone their life and that is more important than having an upset person who feels they are in the right.

The critical point is 'what would I have done in this sitution' and I think I would have gone back to the boat with my wife and she could have informed the dive guide that we were going up. The dive guide's responsibility is to the group as a whole and if a couple have a problem they should deal with it assuming it's not an out of air or an emergency.

That's my final say on this one.

Would love to see a pinned thread of 'Life threating situations I was in' as I think that would be very useful.

regards

Ardy

WOW!!!! Hi there Steve, and hello to Tatiana! (I am glad you are A-OK!) I say wow, as this post seems to really have stirred up some folks! I also say "wow", as the whole situation blows my mind... It's just that you have been diving for 12 years, and have 100 or so dives and are jumping in with a D300 at The Great White Wall-on your first dive there! Really!-that is awesome for you, but it's like being a 16 year old, driving for a week or two, and then taking an indy-car or formula 1 car for a quick spin around Laguna Seca!! What do you think is going to happen eh?....(especially with a large, empty housing..it's like having a mini lift bag on the dive with you , as all photog's know!) 100 dives-12 years...what's that, not even 10 dives a year...I'm just glad your housing and you are both in one piece!! Maybe it would be prudent to get a tad more experience before doing such a thing. I also would say that most of the underwater photographers and videographers I know look after themselves...ie solo dive. I have to agree with Steve's comments-and I don't mean to be rude as I have seen some other people be to you on this posting! We are all certified divers yes?? Please don't rely on dive staff to get you out of situations! It's like the good old signal:"I'm out of air...can I share please?" we all learnt or have taught to our students....lovely in practice, but I can almost GUARANTEE that when push comes to shove, a panicked out of air diver will simply rip your primary straight out of your mouth!!(and knock off your mask in the same frenzied action),leaving you to quick draw your octopus or pony.... Anyway-it is not very nice for that divemaster to be rude to you!! (But as you do more dives with photog's you will see that some can be VERY snappy about their super expensive rigs, especially to what they percieve as lowly DM's...those photog's give us all a bad rep!!... and often alienate the DM's.. to the unfortunate result that they believe we are all arrogant jerks with bags of money while they earn a hand to mouth existence!) Keep on firing and getting wet!!!! Good luck and happy hunting of the critters!!

Chillidog

I have had 2 so called buddies run out of air, one was supposed to be on the way to the surface up the anchor line. We had said goodbye sometime before, and I was unhooking the anchor that was caught. The biggest issue is trying to calm them down, they literally suck up huge amounts of air. In this situation I was left very short for any kind of safety stop from a 28m dive so I had to retrieve my occy without warning and send him on his way from 5m. I know this sounds harsh but I figure I had got him up from 28m I was not going to risk an injury to myself because he was stupid. The other was a female and she was very apologetic and polite, the guy just complained about me not taking him to the surface.

The other thing I noticed is that both of them wouldnt try their own regs on the way up and I found this very annoying as it was my limited air they were breathing.

These experiences and a few others are the reason I treat buddies I dont know like a bomb that can explode at any time. DM's also seem to buddy you up with newbies if they think you might know what you are doing, which increases the risk profile.

Solo diving or with another experienced photographer is the only way to go.

Hi Chillidog,

You are right, pretty funny... really good point you have going there.

I stopped diving for many years after my first 12 dives (aprox) and then almost forgot about it. I got a refresher about 3 years ago and in the last two years I have accrued 110 dives plus the ones that I never logged. I know I am not very experienced by any means but I survived, didn't freak out, made proper ascending, and showed navigation skills to find my group, if anything I am quite surprised to how well I handled myself.

Me and my husband got professional underwater camera equipment because I fell in love with it using a small camera, I've dove with underwater photographers a couple of times before and it wasn't such a nice experience.

Too bad the dive master is not on this thread so I can express my opinion directly to her...I only wish she would have talked, explained her reasoning, and TELL the boat captain I was lost!


Thanks for your comments chillidog, here is the link to my pics ever since this incident, i hope someone likes at least one or two: tscher photos

Your harsh answer hardly warrants a response.

after many years of not diving i got a refresher about 3 years ago and accrued 110 dives over the last 2 years.

If you had read better you would see I explained the reasons for our disappointment and the fact that other divers (who were somewhat inexperienced) felt quite uncomfortable with the DM as well.

You weren't there, still you seem quite quick to judge me. Thanks but no thanks.

Jeremy,

I don't want to pick a fight either, I know I must have come across a bit harsh but I was frustrated because I've explained the same things over and over again.

We learned a lot from that dive and the mistakes that we made won't be repeated...if we don't feel comfortable with the crew then we won't dive with them, if they don't want to answer our questions then they don't want our business.

Overall I won't ever take new equipment without checking the current myself and making a buoyancy test prior to the dive. As far as my decisions after I got lost, I consider I handled myself pretty well given how scared I felt.
regards,
Tatiana

This is fruitless,

I appreciate all comments and criticism, but honestly only me and the divers that were abandoned by the DM at the end of the Dive know how it felt like to be with such an unprofessional team.

My husband and I learned a valuable lesson from this. Having dove 30+ dives since the incident we are still convinced that this DM should not be guiding groups with that attitude.

We were not the only ones who seemed to have a traumatic experience. A few days later another gentleman told us he was in distress and was the dive guide actually pulled him down while he was having trouble clearing his ears. That was what he stated and we believe he also spoke to the manager of the dive shop but we weren't there to witness it.

The manager of the dive shop was kind enough to give us the DM's certification number and complete name which she had denied to giving to my husband when he directly asked her. She also refused to show her certification card as we honestly didn't believe that she was a certified DM.

All we wanted to achieve with this thread was to share an unpleasant experience that we do not want anyone else to go through.

More pictures, less chatter,
Tscher