INTRODUCTION
Recently, I realised how fortunate I am to meet so many underwater photographers on my travels, and how the conversations we share continue to help my photography improve. The more views and opinions I am exposed to, the more I learn and the wider my knowledge base. My aim in this series of articles is to spread the knowledge around and hopefully tips will come up in the conversation format that wouldn’t in a normal article.
These aren’t formal interviews and I promise not to ask anyone where their favourite place to dive is! Instead they will be discussions about underwater photography focused on what particularly interests me in that persons work. When my schedule allows, I’ll do one every month or two and publish them on Wetpixel and Underwater Photography Magazine. The only rule is that these are face to face interviews (no phone or email interrogations) with characters, some widely known, others less so, from our world.

A CONVERSATION WITH RAND McMEINS & TODD MINTZ

I kick off the series up in Canada. I am here on Vancouver Island pointing the microphone at Todd Mintz and Rand McMeins. We’ve been diving the wonders of Browning Pass out of Port Hardy. This is also where I first met them face to face, on the same trip last year, and indeed where they became firm friends years earlier. Their friendship has played a key role in their photographic development, providing encouragement and honest constructive feedback on their work. Todd is Canadian and Rand is from the USA.

Neither considers themselves a “pro”, whatever that means. Although Todd regularly contributes images to Sport Diver and Scuba Diving magazines in the US. They have both done the majority of their photography in pixels, but perhaps, surprisingly, have clear views on getting images right in camera.

Arguably, it is their phenomenal track record as consistent winners in underwater photography competitions that really marks them out. Without getting too explicit, to save their blushes, Rand’s wins include at the International Competitions of LAUPS, NCUPS and Underwater Images, in Scuba Diving Magazine’s Annual Competition and in the National Wildlife Awards, oh, and receiving the David Doubilet Award For Excellence In Underwater Photography. Todd has received four Best Of Show Awards, in Nature’s Best Ocean Views, Scuba Diving Magazine and twice at NCUPS, once when he was a novice entering his first competition, he swept the board in both the wide angle and macro categories. In short, there are few underwater photo contests in the last few years when one or the other hasn’t starred. Often both. My hope, as I click on the Dictaphone is to uncover some of the secrets to this success.

Alex: To start you off easy. One thing that struck me diving together is how happy you both were sacrificing your dive time to show me great subjects, when they could have been winners for you. I guess you prove nice guys do finish first.
Todd: That’s why I became a dive master. I found I enjoyed helping others. I get great satisfaction from finding a great subject for someone, particularly if it is something they have never seen. I will point it out and step away. Both you and Ryan Canon have made the same comment.
Also you have to recognise that locking in on a subject for 40 minutes and just banging away is not as productive as shooting a half a dozen shots, stepping away and letting someone else shoot, while you review your images seriously and think what else you could do.
Rand: Last year when you [Alex] were up here for the first time, I’d get so excited when I spotted a subject that you haven’t shot. There was more pleasure in getting you over to shoot it, than me, and also it is great to see a fresh perspective on a subject I have shot over and over again. Seeing your take on it might give me ideas. Seeing other people’s work can help you avoid a creative rut, always shooting a subject the same way.
Alex: Yeah, that is a big part of my motivation for these interviews. I feel very lucky to have had exactly that inspiration from diving with so many talented chaps. I grew up in relative isolation as an underwater photographer, which had some advantages, but mainly disadvantages. I think that is why I value so much diving with other shooters now. How did you guys get going?
Todd: I started the other way. I ended up fortuitously on trips with pros. Taking the last spot on a boat and finding it filled with big names. Many of them were really good people, amazing photographers and very willing to share their time and information. One of the first I met was Jim Watt, who sadly is no longer with us. On the Shear Water, he would take time out and call me over, show me a little of what he had done that day, how he did it and was really open to sharing.
The other two people who had a huge impact on me changing my approach were Jen Hayes and David Doubilet. I was with them for three weeks in Raja Ampat. Jen encouraged me to push my photography further and explained to me the importance of getting outside the box. Its about looking at all the angles, and not getting locked in to one preset type of shot. At some point you have to cut the cord and put yourself out on the edge.

Rand: The watershed in my photographic development was a workshop with Jim Watt. It really gave me a fundamental idea of what I should be looking for when I am shooting to make my pictures interesting and different from what most underwater shooters are producing. For example, he was a great advocate of having a secondary subject in the frame. Many of the images that I have won competitions with have had secondary subjects. These separate a photo from the standard shots, and make it a much more compelling image.
Alex: So why contests? What is your motivation for entering? I am aware that your continuing success pretty much funds all your dive trips!
Rand: The original reason was they are great barometers for finding out how you are doing. For whatever reason, both Todd and I have had success almost from the get go. Also because I am not a professional photographer and I don’t really have another outlet for my images, apart from my website. Contest results are seen and appreciated by lots of people. And quite honestly, these competitions, thanks to their sponsors, do have some fantastic prizes. There is nothing wrong with a free dive trip or a nice piece of kit!
Todd: Prizes are nice and the trips subsidise producing more images and convincing my wife to let me spend more money on camera equipment! I was on a contest-winning trip when I met David and Jen, which had a huge impact on my photography beyond the images from that trip. I also feel proud to say that a lot of the people I have met have become good friends. I also see competitions as an avenue to get known by the magazines.
Alex: I believe an important factor in both of your successes, is your friendship. There are plenty of examples underwater of photographic friends, who have driven each other on to excellence.
Rand: My friendship with Todd grew and blossomed from both of us being willing to share ideas. Be harsh with one another, help each other see the flaws in our work so that we can improve.
Todd: Honest pure feedback…
Rand: …is hard to come by.
Alex: It must help in one of the hardest elements to competitions, which is selecting entries. Something I say when asked is submit your best pictures, not the pictures from your best dive. How do you decide?
Todd: My wife is probably the first to see them. I don’t edit much on the boat, I get more from the conversation with other photographers. Every trip is a great opportunity to learn from other people. Its something that I have bugged Rand about, you have got to talk to the other people, find out what they are seeing, the subjects that are exciting them. I really get motivated from the positive energy from other people’s enthusiasm.
Anyway, my wife doesn’t analyse my pictures, it is just what jumps out at her, And then secondly Rand has always been a huge source to go to. We email all the time and by the end of it, for most competitions we usually know what each other is entering.
Rand: It’s a process we go through. For each competition we’ll have possible entries that we just want to get a second opinion on. Sometimes you just fall in love with a shot, for reasons that may not translate into a winning photo. For example, with supermacro, it was so darn difficult to get a shot in focus, composed and sharp that you can’t see it is just average image. You need someone to tell you it’s a nice portrait, but it’s a rare day that a nice portrait wins anything these days.
All that helps us pair down our entries, but I’ll still enter an image if I feel strongly, even if Todd doesn’t rate it. But it is very rare that I enter a questionable image and it places. We’ll pretty much know what is going to win from our entries.
You [Alex] and I talked a lot about the jellyfish shot last year, but I don’t go around to fourteen different people trying to get their views. [Rand’s jellyfish and crab shot has so far netted over $8000 USD in prizes]

Alex: So just a few people whose will give you an honest opinion. So you’ve got a pretty good handle on when images are good enough to win. How do you deal with it, when they don’t?
Todd: There are so many great photos out there that anytime I win I feel fortunate. I have certainly been disappointed when I thought I had something and then it’s not placed. But, you may have the right image, but in the wrong contest.
Alex: There are also vagaries in the judging process, and I say that as someone who sits on juries and is regularly involved. In my experience, judges are very rarely biased and want to pick the best entries for the contest. But, for example, a lot of the success of an image can depend on what else came in that year and the impact of a shot is reduced if two or three people have entered similar photos.
Rand: That is another reason that Todd and I talk.

Continued on page 2…

Todd: People can be discouraged if they don’t place, but for all you know they placed three and you were fourth and it was just on the difference between one judge and another. Enter the same image again and you could be first. If you really feel strongly about an image, don’t give up on it, get some feedback from honest people and enter it again.
But you have got to be prepared to listen. There was a thread on Wetpixel where someone was looking for critique and you [Alex] picked apart an image from a judging perspective on why is wasn’t quite there. People have got to look for those resources.
Alex: But it is very difficult in internetland to be honest and direct without coming across…
Todd: …as an ass.
Alex: Ha, ha. Yeah. It’s much easier to do those things face to face or on a private email, not a public forum.
Todd: You’ve gotta have thick skin and listen to the criticism.
Alex: Exactly. Without that attitude you are not going to get better.

Alex: To change tack slightly, I’d like to get into the meat of creating those winning shots. What was the underwater thought process behind those winning shots? How do you recognise those special opportunities?
Rand: It is part of the growth process. When we finally got to the point of visualising shots ahead of time and going down with a plan looking for something we’d seen or never seen but hope to. I have slowly built in my mind a library of shots that I believe are possible to get in the right circumstances. For example, I had seen photos of birds with baitfish from the Sardine Run in South Africa and was always dumbstruck. I had always imagined in my how I would want such an image to look, should I ever get the opportunity. And then when I was in La Paz in Mexico shooting sealions, a couple got back on the boat and said there are millions of little fish over there and the birds are diving in. And I got my chance.
[That photo won the David Doubilet Award for Best In Show at Beneath The Sea.]
Todd: I remember that shot, and the moment I saw it I said it would win. Interestingly enough most of his successful shots I have said that about, but there are plenty of others that he’s been happy with that I have been brutally honest about and told him I don’t think so.
Rand: Foremost in my mind, when I drop and start looking for subjects is to look for interaction, behaviour, just something going on. I consider that a more interesting shot than a shrimp or a fish. A shrimp on a fish is more compelling.
Todd: I’d agree. Even when I have previsualised ideas, once you hit the water everything can change. You start to see other things. With my dolphin shot, I had seen the interaction of the dolphins with the people on the scooter. The flow of it, it was almost like a dance and I saw it coming and got myself into position.
With my mangrove shots in Raja Ampat, we had done several dives there and I had seen the sunlight coming through the trees and it was beautiful and I knew I needed a foreground subject. And then as I was cruising along and saw the anemone with the clownfish and I thought this is the shot, if I can get it to translate into the camera. And fortunately I had the time to get everything right.
[Todd’s anemonefish photo has won 3 separate Best Of Show awards]

Alex: Time and diving freedom are very important. The chance to repeat dive sites and then stay put when things are hot. I think another important factor in your success is that competitions are the main purpose of your photography, and that gives you a clarity of thought and focus.
Todd: For me a successful trip is coming back with that one image that I am pumped about. I like to say, its got potential. Potential for competitions. For a winning image you need to be looking for something artistic in the shot. Not just here is a shot of a unique subject, but is there a unique artistic flare, in terms of the colours, flow, multiple points of interest, the negative space is huge in winning images. So often you have the right subject, but not the right setup.
Alex: So it’s probably equally important to be able to recognise great setups and to identify subjects that are poorly setup and know not to waste time on them.
Todd: Exactly. Successful images have got to catch the eye instantly and have that wow factor.
Alex: Easier said than done. How do you make your entries stand out?
Todd: It is all about the light, the quality of the light, the textures from the light. Really working those angles. Not just standard lighting, standard setup, nice clean shot. Play around with it a bit.
Alex: I agree, a decade ago a technically perfect image was just a wonder to behold and would win. But now you need something extra.
Todd: You’ve got to put the time in, you’ve got to be willing to review your shooting, critique it seriously, figure out where you can improve.
Rand: You’ve definitely got to separate yourself from the crowd, be prepared to be different. Go against established wisdom. Back when we were shooting the [Olympus] 5050s and we were snapping two macro lenses on together, to push the boundaries and shoot super tight macro photos. I loved that type of photography, so to continue it the SLR, Ryan [Canon] suggested the 2x teleconverter. I remember being told at the time on DigitalDiver and Wetpixel that the glass quality is horrible and not worth the effort. Anyway my first trip with that setup was to the Turks and Caicos and I got that little yellow blenny.
Alex: The one that was on the stamp.

Rand: Yeah. And had I shot that with a standard lens, it would have had a lot of negative space around it and just been another blenny shot. It is like the snoot work I did, which now Keri [Wilk] has got into. And he is getting some amazing creative lighting with the snoot and it is separating his photos.
Alex: So you’re saying to keep up the continue success you have to do a Bowie and keep reinventing the techniques you are using and be prepared to go against perceived wisdom.
Rand: I think so. Because digital photography is becoming so widespread, and the competitions are going to get harder and harder to win.
Todd: But you don’t need to be so wrapped in the technical. Its something Jen said, probably the biggest complement I have got, that I have an eye and see things in terms of taking the shots. Of course you need to be in control of your equipment and I have upgraded when I have found it has limited me for what I want to accomplish.
Alex: Well if you will have a Canon!
Todd: Ha ha. Jim Watt, by the way, shot Canon. But I think it has got to be more about the art. You have to have a solid base in technique, but I am the last person to talk to about the point whatever difference between this sensor and that sensor. But you have to open yourself up to seeing things. When I started I used to say, yep, there is the subject, I can compose it in the third and shoot it this way. But now I’m looking for details, eye shots, fresh angles.
Alex: Another point I’d like to make after diving with you both is how much you respect the environment, never touching or moving a subject for a shot. Underwater photographers often have bad reputations for not caring, and it is an important message that you win competitions playing fair.
Todd: If we are meant to find the subject and it is meant to happen it will. You can’t force shots. Keep your eyes open and it will appear. There is never a need to move or harass things.
Rand: For me, personally, it is part of the challenge of shooting underwater. First finding shots in all the life underwater. And second, people who manipulate subjects, the word gets around, this is a fairly small, tight knit community, and they hurt themselves, their reputations.
Being more positive, there seems to be so much interesting stuff naturally going on, it may take some patience to find it, but there is no justification for [setting shots up]. And most of the time the natural behaviours are much more interesting.
Alex: And you won’t get a gunnel nicely wrapped around the kelp by putting it there. There is a natural harmony to animals doing their own thing that just looks better.
Todd: It is like taking pictures of people posed. They always look staged.
I have two young boys and I want them to grow up with a respect for nature. I enjoying sharing the stories behind my shots and I couldn’t do that if I had moved something.
Rand: Every aspect of the challenge of underwater photography you have a choice of good or bad. If you want to be a good macro shooter you have to master the challenges. Or you could just crop the hell out of your image and it will look fine on the web. Maybe the depth of field is a giveaway. Basically if you are going to cheat, you are a cheater. I wouldn’t get any satisfaction winning a contest because I put a nudibranch on the back of a frogfish.
Alex: Not sitting on the fence then. Another contentious issue is Photoshopping. Almost all competitions you enter do not allow any significant manipulation to the content of the frame. And there are a lot of people out there, who have an attitude that with every image they see better than theirs, they think “That’s all Photoshop. If I was better at Photoshop, I’d be winning the competitions too.” And I think you, Todd, are the perfect example as you are not the best with Photoshop.
Todd: Ha ha. I have never taken the time to bother with it, because if I can’t get the picture right in the camera I need to go back and redo it better. Also I don’t believe you can ‘Shop an image up to replicate the quality of something that is properly lit, properly exposed and properly shot.
Alex: I agree, and all the really talented underwater shooters I have dived with all their good stuff is spot on the back of their camera. And I think a lot of people hold their own photography back because they don’t believe those results are always possible in camera.
Todd: I am sure I’ll start learning more Photoshop in the future, as I do see some techniques that interest me artistically. I am not a purist, per se. I just relish the challenge of getting it right. I’ve nothing against the art of Photoshop, it certainly is an art too. It is just not something that appeals to me at this point.
Rand: Me too. I have, like, five adjustments that I do. I like my photos to come out of the RAW converter done, apart from sharpening. Part of the challenge, if not the challenge, is to get that photo perfect in the camera.
Alex: Any final advice for those trying to dethrone you in the contests?
Rand: It is basic, but read the rules. They are often very specific about certain things. I highlight the rules, all the important details.
Todd: I do the same thing.
Rand: I know from conversations with organisers they often say things like “Some guy entered a great macro shot, but in the wide angle category so we had to toss it!” When entering a competition, look at the categories and make sure your image fits the category. You won’t win divers and marine life unless you have a diver in it.
Todd: Learning more about the subjects can make a huge difference.
Rand: If you are not underwater shooting a lot, it is doubly hard to get good photos when you do dive. Like in Port Hardy, every time I go there I have a better understanding of the habitat, the creatures. What I can expect to find and what I have shot a million times before that is just not going to do it. Or on the other hand, you have the grunt sculpin. I’d love to win a contest with a grunty because they are such interesting creatures but they are so hard to shoot in an appealing way.
Alex: There is always something to work on, something to come back for. Thanks, guys.

More info and photos:
Rand McMeins
Todd Mintz

Next month Alex enjoys a conversation with Martin Edge.