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Everything posted by wahlaoeh

  1. “There’s no frickin’ pattern at all,” $komal said. Shhh!!! Don't tell CF that as it might burst his 400 million year old puzzle bubble .. LOL!!!
  2. Sadly, WA government has issued an order to kill sharks yesterday http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-10/protesters-oppose-tougher-shark-policy/5147288 Culling the sharks is not a solution. The "strategy" of using baited drum lines, IMHO, is the most ridiculous idea. Why would they want to lure the sharks nearer to shore and kill them? Isn't it a crime to deliberately kill the Great White, a protected species? Is Colin Barnett guilty of a criminal offense? And also culling the larger sharks; >3m will decimated the shark species and cause an increase in pinnipeds. By then, will there be another kill order to cull the seals?? Can they even imagine how many other marine animals will be trapped and killed?? We need International pressure to get the order to be eradicated. Pls continue to sign and share this petition: http://www.change.org/petitions/the-australian-senate-prevent-proactive-killing-of-white-sharks-in-australia-2 Thank you!!!
  3. Western Australia's Fisheries Minister, Troy Buswell, has warned a soon-to-be-unveiled shark policy will upset some people in the community. Today at 10am Western Australian time the WA Government will announce it's a new, potentially "draconian" shark policy. Already kill orders on sharks sighted too close to shore have been issued, so just how much stricter can we get? Please help the WASC fight this. Thank you for your support https://www.facebook.com/pages/West-Australians-for-Shark-Conservation-WASC/138762386211049 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-09/buswell-shark-policy/5144522 http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.change.org%2Fpetitions%2Fthe-australian-senate-prevent-proactive-killing-of-white-sharks-in-australia-2&h=_AQFZTwVvAQH_t5kVt5jF1QRm3_zYgc-jz2WNvFw2h1Uyag&s=1 http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.change.org%2Fen-AU%2Fpetitions%2Fthe-western-australian-government-call-off-plan-to-cull-sharks-near-wa-beaches%23share&h=3AQFBS2AbAQEOzTKbFwCOobCgRqhJPrZmBg4DW-z7rDlW3g&enc=AZN4mRtucxd8V7wydLEcoheuWvY6VvkjX9lIHjaBMUgIDAcLAIxT_Vjz8KsvrfRptTQXUWklQavDiu5BhLfYhEg0&s=1
  4. Dear all, please sign and share this important petition from Shark Stewards. Thank you!!! http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/tell-noaa-no-to-shark.fb40?source=s.fb&r_by=8711769
  5. Drew: Saw this latest: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/january-jones/noaa-shark-fin-ban_b_4337841.html Seems to be related to this thread. I have signed the petition but what else can I do? Thanks.
  6. Sharing some news on WA fisheries tagged sharks: http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/how-great-whites-trawl-our-coastlines-for-7000km/story-fnhocxo3-1226772406903
  7. Daniel: Thanks for saying that out loud for me. This is just a sad situation about need and greed involving Bad Science, IMHO. Bluntly put, the vultures of greed!!! ps: i can only hope.
  8. Me too, Mike. And I also hope that those rich sponsors like Caterpillar etc. will stop sponsoring them till they improve in their methods. Am glad to see this news: WA Fisheries will let West Australians track sharks in real-time without O$$earch http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/wa-fisheries-will-let-west-australians-track-sharks-in-realtime/story-fnhocxo3-1226772041752 Quote: WA Fisheries research executive director Rick Fletcher said the website, which is understood to have been in the pipeline for some time, would be ready soon but would not give a definite date. He said the real-time detections will come from the satellite receivers along our coast which already alerts Surf Lifesaving WA and beach authorities when a tagged shark passes by. "Our research program is focused on investigating the longer term movement and behavioural patterns." Fisheries Minister Troy Buswell yesterday told The Sunday Times he had rejected OCEARCH's offer to use its vessel saying the group's proposal did not add to WA's own "robust" program. He said WA's Shark Monitoring Network had already tagged more sharks than OCEARCH and did not require the use of a specialised boat. "Naturally no system can tell you where untagged sharks are. Our job continues to be to provide the most robust information we can, to replace belief and speculation with scientifically defensible information and advice. ps: Am excited to see these new information
  9. Mike: The font size on your last post is so small that I have to put on Costa sunglasses to read. I absolutely agree with you on this one.
  10. Autopsea: Thanks but I'm aware of that. The reason why I mentioned WA is because of the recent shark attack fatality and Ocearch (CF) is AGAIN mongering FEAR to the public by pressuring the WA government with a deadline to take up his offer. How convenient!!! IMHO, it's DESPERATE!!!! State government given seven weeks to take up shark offer http://m.watoday.com.au/wa-news/state-government-given-seven-weeks-to-take-up-shark-offer-20131122-2y16o.html Onto the acoustic tags: When shark attack like that happened, people are relying on fishermen and jumping into conclusions that there is an increase in GWS in WA in the recent years. Of course it's just an increase in sharks and not human invasion!!! I think what WA fisheries is trying to find out is: will the same GWS be "loitering" around or is there indeed a congregation of GWS in their region. Hopefully, with these data, they are able to convince otherwise as the GWS are highly migratory and travel vast distances in a short period of time. So, trying to catch the "culprit" shark is a never a clever solution or worst culling them. But, with FEAR, will these people listen to Science?
  11. Autopsea: Thanks for sharing. I have seen many videos of the smaller shark species (including the larger Tiger sharks) going into tonic immobility but they do recover quickly. I have posted this video previously from one of the episode of the Shark Wranglers which showed that this GWS went into tonic immobility but almost didn't make it. Unfortunately, the video can only be streamed from the US now. I think I remember seeing that this GWS was caught and lifted out of the water. http://sharetv.com/watch/451994 I was talking to someone from Perth on another forum and this is the website that he suggested for me to read about Australia tagged sharks. Till date, they have tagged more than 300 sharks and about 200 of these are the GWS. http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/Education-and-Partnerships/Shark-Hazard/Shark%20research/Pages/Extension-of-the-shark-monitoring-network.aspx The type of tags being used are called acoustic transmitters which emit a unique signal that can be recognised by another piece of equipment called an acoustic receiver. A video showing how these tags are being placed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aROU-tpoZUQ Looks like this shark was in tonic immobility but without having it being lifted out of the water. What do you think? ps: I'm still learning and my friend has just sent me a link to his "SMALL" collection to read up so if there is any mistake (or not up to date information) in my posts, pls pardon and correct me.
  12. Drew: Thanks for taking your time to check and for the clarification. I'm glad to know that some of these scientists who have worked with Ocearch before are distancing from them and are evolving in new minimally invasive techniques. ps1: I love dolphins too ps2: I also know that you are actively involved in shark finning etc. issues so lets all work together for the sharks who have no voice. ps3: I wanna to like your last post but am not able to.
  13. Drew: Just want to make sure: is this the same Michael that you were referring to? Dr. Michael Domeier on the right. http://notesfromthebartender.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/shark4.jpg ps: This was an old photo from Ocearch tagging expedition.
  14. Drew: Where did you find the information that Dr. Domeier has stopped using SPOT tag? The information that I found from his website say that he is using less invasive method but still SPOT tagged. Maybe that website is not up to date. Pray share. I have read somewhere that some scientists, can't rememebr now if that includes Dr. Domeier are trying to use single bolt instead of the standard 4 bolts. "Scientists at MCSI have been working to improve methods for SPOT tagging adult great white sharks. New methods developed, tested and implemented by MCSI involve a device to prevent gut hooking, soft fishing gear to prevent skin abrasions and constant forward movement to fully irrigate the gills. Sharks tagged in this manner, including the largest white shark to ever be SPOT tagged, were far more vigorous upon release than our previous method that lifted the sharks from the water. We strive to constantly improve our methods to do what is best for the sharks and the scientific community." ps: This does not concern Ocearch or CF now but I'm still interested.
  15. Okay, to be really precise, my question should be: Is the OUTDATED and INVASIVE methods used by Chris Fischer and the current Ocearch team really neccessary for the Great White Shark research? http://fijisharkdiving.blogspot.sg/2013/04/fischer-reality-check-comments-by-dr.html Mike: not sure if you have read this. Very interesting! But be warned that it's just another piece of tabloid. ps: I just re-read this cos it humour me too much on a dull work day and I really like this bit: No, I don’t give the data to Fischer…why should I…it’s my data? LOL!!! Make me wonder will Ocearch or CF ever be publishing some invaluable data, ever ..
  16. Daniel: I'll leave the research papers to Gina. but here's an article a little piece of tabloid news on World renowned shark researcher Pete Klimley: http://iteamblog.abc7news.com/2011/05/controversial-shark-researcher-wants-4-year-permit.html Quote: Klimley tells me the first thing he worked on with the producers was an animal care protocol, an in-depth consideration of the health of the sharks, how the research would affect them, and techniques to minimize harm. Klimley say Domeier did not have an animal care protocol in place when he came to the Farallon Islands in November 2009, and gut-hooked Junior. The Great White was spotted late last year in terrible condition. Several researchers I spoke with say Domeier’s invasive techniques – most of all, leaving most of a 13-inch hook in Junior’s throat, made it weak and susceptible to attack by other sharks. Klimley says he demanded the production crew build a sling to hoist the sharks and a live well on the ship, in which to place them. Klimley will not work with Great Whites in these expeditions – he says their enormous size is a challenge. He’s working with smaller Tiger and Hammerhead Sharks.
  17. Mike: I'm not sure about that but at least Dr D is distancing himself away from Ocearch, which is good IMO. It's all cool!! I saw the private joke comment (before it was deleted) that Drew posted yesterday so I'm for a Mod to post that.
  18. Mike: You're so quick to jump in! I'm only referring to this: MCSI develops new methods for tagging adult white sharks. Yes, MCSI is still using SPOT tags (which I don’t think is necessary) but I commend him for NOT landing sharks using haul-hooking methods. See the difference. http://www.marinecsi.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/DSC1684b.jpg Scientists at MCSI have been working to improve methods for SPOT tagging adult great white sharks. New methods developed, tested and implemented by MCSI involve a device to prevent gut hooking, soft fishing gear to prevent skin abrasions and constant forward movement to fully irrigate the gills. Sharks tagged in this manner, including the largest white shark to ever be SPOT tagged, were far more vigorous upon release than our previous method that lifted the sharks from the water. We strive to constantly improve our methods to do what is best for the sharks and the scientific community. ps: I do read papers but not research papers but I think I read somewhere that Dr. Michael Domeier and Chris Fischer are no longer working together. Maybe that's just a rumour.
  19. Autopsea: Thanks for the clarification on my original message. I’m also in agreement on your second point about the biggest thread to the sharks but that has been known for a long time and many people are already focusing on these issues. I’m also very concern about these issues and have been actively petitioning against such practices. The reason why I have started this thread is to discuss Ocearch and their tagging methods, not so much for the data but more about ethicalness; to which I have already explained on my 2nd post: Some not so invasive methods that I have found online: MCSI develops new methods for tagging adult white sharks - http://www.marinecsi.org/ And this video which absolutely ROCKS, IMO - What I have learned so far (a month), hopefully I will not be spending one whole year, is that there are definitely newer, less invasive and more humane methods. The question remains as to why is Ocearch still using such outdated methods. Also, I believe that Ocearch operation is not new. It has been going on for a long time and I’m amazed that so far, anything invaluable from their data has yet to be seen. We can always sit around and hope that the value of the data Ocearch’s work yields outweighs the negative consequences or learn more so as to raise awareness to others on the unnecessary harm towards the sharks. Having said all that, hope those who share private joke and comments not pertaining to this topic can take them somewhere else so that other members who are interested can focus on further discussion. Appreciate that!!!
  20. .. Thanks for editing your comments, Drew!!! But was that comment based on instinct as well?
  21. Daniel: I like your humour, I really do Okay, there is a hint of tactlessness on my comments above but that was written when I realized that my posts/comments were deleted from the Ocearch page. I can assure you that those comments that were originally posted was not demeaning but questions that need clarification. I admit that I was a little annoyed at that moment and I have already apologize to Drew for my bluntness on my last post. I started this thread to understand is it really necessary to employ Ocearch methods, which is invasive and damaging to the sharks, IMO. And are the data collected more invaluable than any other tagging methods? What I have seen from the replies here so far is that: If there is any amazing data, it has yet to be seen? Am I missing something? I know that there is a recent case of shark attack fatality in Western Australia. This has caused both media/public frenzies and WA fisheries was trying to capture the “culprit” shark which is tragic, IMO. Western Australia's Shark Monitoring Network has reported to have tagged more than 300 sharks but occasional shark attack still occur so I’m not sure if tagging a few more (or hundreds) will help in this rare occurrences. I was talking to someone from WA on another forum and he mentioned that the beach goers can use the shark alarm system to make a decision and feel a level of security. http://www.sharkalarm.com.au/sightings I looked at that website and noticed that many of the reported sightings are from Helicopter and there is a lapse since 16, April 2013. To which he has replied: I also question has there been any correlation done to see what percentage of these shark alarm sightings are tagged sharks but has gotten no reply. Anyone? The shark safe barrier IMO is a better barrier system to protect both marine life and people. At least that is better than shark nets used previously. Are these safe shark barrier being used in WA? Anyone? http://www.sun.ac.za/english/Lists/news/DispForm.aspx?ID=130
  22. Drew: If I'm uninterested/unwilling to discuss, I wouldn't have bother spending my time on here. I have also re-read Daniel and Mike (Bottom Time) posts and have confirmed that there is no mention of Ocearch's data except for "Cape Fear" which is an article; I have read but it also doesn't offer much information. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/09/09/130909fa_fact_wilkinson While you have mentioned about Michael Domeier's recent paper, with data garnered from the TV program, is from the Guadalupe population. I think Skyler has already responded to you on this. I did not read his paper but I trust Skyler's words on this because he has been spending one whole year researching on this subject. Sorry if I seems blunt on the post posted this morning and hope this clear things up with you
  23. Quoting your statement from one of your post: The tags will be giving data for a while, so the data may not be fully presented anytime soon. Drew: Ocearch Data? What data have you seen from Ocearch that is so invaluable that is only acheiveable by their methods. I do not read research paper but will try to if there are something really so invaluable. Pray share!!! Quoting from the 3rd post from Gina who is a scientist. Also, this quote from Jeff Reinhardt was directed at the recent Ocearch post about "New Blood Indicator Confirms Low Stress Levels with OCEARCH tagging Method " As a marine biologist, I would not touch Ocearch with a ten foot pole unless it was a gaff to rip them off stage. But you can go on supporting these clowns." I have only seen this data and my comments to this data on their page today: Good job on comparing ONE apple to a bunch of grapes. FYI- They have deleted all my previous comments. Note: The infograpic indicates the sample size for the GWS is ONE. Do you really think that this data is scientifically significant? I don't know about you but even if I ask a 5 years old would an animal be stressed after hooked haul, dragged and then having bolts drilled into their body. I think that the answer is YES. Do re-watch the capture of the sharks on Sharkmen etc. and tell me that the sharks are indeed unstressed. I think that has somewhat sums up that there are scientist/biologist and layman like myself not agreeing with their data but these are probably not Skyler's scientists. Why do you ONLY have so much interest in Skyler's scientists? I have also twice invited to add you to the WHITE SHARK ADVOCACY group for further discussions with other scientists but was rejected so I'm not asking again. And so this is okay and neccessary? Ignorance is bliss!!
  24. Drew: Since you'd rather not waste your breathe on this subject anymore but I'm still going to state my opinion. First of all, you were the one pressing Skyler to name sources (as you need validation) and when I did list you two names who publicly voiced their opinions that discredited Ocearch, you said that it doesn't interest you anymore. From what I know, there are scientists who truly care for sharks and are using less invasive methods for tracking sharks. These scientists do not go around portraying themselves to be sharkmen on TV/media but are doing their jobs as scientist should do. What you didn't know doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'll save my breathe on this one. The shark safe barrier IMO is a better barrier system to protect both marine life and people. At least that is better than shark nets used previously. http://www.sharkdivingunlimited.com/new-sharksafe-barrier-system-to-protect-both-sharks-and-people/ You have hit the nail on the greatest thread to shark species, which is the removal by shark-finning. Ocearch was the one stating that 200K sharks are finned each day and they must have agreed to that one too (I have print-shot of my conversation with them on their page which they probably have removed, I'm not sure). These sharks that were taken from places like Cocos, Galapagos and Sea Of Cortez etc. are mainly the smaller schooling shark species. The Great White shark is usually solitary so why would tagging a few helps. I have asked them this question but it was left unanswered. You should be persuading the scientists who you know have worked or are still working with Ocearch to join effort with you in tackling this issue and probably request funding from Ocearch. That will be killing two birds with one stone. IMHO.
  25. Drew: Can't speak for Skyler but from my sources on public forums. "Quote Dr. Bill on a reply to Ocearch's Mission on Scubaboard: Well, at least they haven't been back in 8 months... that's a good thing IMHO. I've been really disappointed to see some research instityutions that I respect getting involved with these folks (and have written to tell them so)." "Quote Jeff Reinhardt on Ocearch page: Chris, I hope one day you see the light. As a marine biologist, I would not touch Ocearch with a ten foot pole unless it was a gaff to rip them off stage. But you can go on supporting these clowns." Do take up my offer to add you to the WHITE SHARK ADVOCACY group, I know that there are many other scientists who don't think that their research methods is necessary to solve the 400 million year old puzzle. The problem I have with Ocearch as a layman (from my short time learning about them) is that they are very good at promoting themselves as a NPO wanting to protect/save sharks and is constantly sharing mediocre and misleading information but when someone wants to interact and ask valid questions on their page, questions are either left unanswered or even worst, the person's post will be deleted and the person blocked.
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