D70s - Which lens to buy first?

[ornate_wrasse 0]

I am planning on purchasing a D70s body only and then acquiring various lenses for it. Is there any lens that would be best to purchase as a first lens for the camera?

 

Since my only u/w camera so far has been the Nik V, and I've never used a housed camera (film or digital), I know very little about both flat and dome ports. Is there a good resource out there for learning all about the different ports and which ones I need for the various lenses?

 

Of course, if I get a good price for my baby grand piano I'm currently selling, then I might be able to purchase several lenses for it, both wide angle AND macro! I'll keep my fingers crossed!

 

BTW, congratulations to James for his selection by the Houston photo society!

 

Kind regards,

 

Ellen

[Arnon_Ayal 1]

My first suggestion will be to pass on the DSLR forum, all the issues you mention are discussed there many times.

Regarding the ports in 2 words, flat port are uses usually with macro lens and dome ports with WA.

About lens, with one lens you have a problem, you can use WA or macro but then you are limited to that kind of photography, there are no one lens that can be used in both situation. The best solution will be probably a zoom lens, then you can use one of the 10/12-20/24 lens for WA and fish portrait.

Another option is the D70 kit lens, the 18-70DX, its not a real WA and not a macro but its good for fish portrait and its quit good glass.

If you can buy 2 or more pieces then its much easier

[Rocha 0]

Hi Ellen, as Arnon said you will get more feedback on the dSLR forum, so I am moving this thread to that area.

 

As for lens suggestions, I think you will need at least two to begin with. A wide angle and a macro. The three most popular ones for wide angle are the Nikon 12-24, the 16 (or Sigma 15) fisheye and the 10.5 fisheye. The 10.5 is my favorite among those, but the others are fine too.

 

There are two macro choices, the 60 and the 105. With the 105 you will have more distance between the camera and the subject, but it is slower than the 60. So it is all a trade-off, you gain here but loose there. As Arnon said, you can also use a zoom like the kit lens, but the zoom is not as sharp as the ones I mentioned above, and it is neither macro (doesn't do 1:1) nor wide angle (the 18mm side is not that wide).

 

I hope this helps,

 

Luiz

[mattdiver 0]

I agree with Arnon. Unless you do exclusively macro or exclusively wide angle, you won't find one lens to fit the bill in all situations.

 

As mentioned by Arnon, the topic has actually been discussed quite extensively in previous threads, but my personal recommendations for a good macro lens to start with would be the Nikkor 60mm, and for wide angle the 12-24mm.

 

Finally, flat ports can be longer or shorter depending on the length of the lens you're using, and dome ports can have a larger or smaller diameter depending on the angle-of-view of your lens. There's various other accessories that may be required such as extension rings or diopter for various lens/port combinations, but to decide which port and accessories go with which lens, you'll have to refer to your specific housing manufacturer's recommendations, as there's no universal answer.

 

Cheers,

Mat

[Warren_L 0]

Ellen, when I was doing my research on DSLRs and dome ports, I came across this link. Might be a bit technical, but it helped me understand better how dome ports work.

 

Dome Ports

[kdietz 0]

If I was only buying two lenses, I would go with the 60mm macro and a Sigma 15 WA

 

Karl

[ornate_wrasse 0]

First off, thanks to all for your very valuable input.

 

As to choice of macro lens, that decision will be easy as everyone recommends that I go with the 60.

 

However, the decision for the WA lens appears to be a bit more complicated! Luiz' favorite is the 10.5, Karl's recommendation is the Sigma 15 and Matt's recommendation is Nikon 12-24! Decisions, decisions....

 

Dollars, unfortunately, enter into the decision-making formula. Are there any significant differences in price between the three WA lenses? In addiiton to that, would the ports, diopters and extension rings needed be significantly different in cost for the three lenses?

 

A happy compromise for me would be a lens that gets me the results I want without breaking the bank!

 

Lastly, from what I read in Matt's post, if I purchase an Ikelite housing, the ports and accessories I need to buy are different than if I, say, went with a Nexus housing. I won't even ask the question of what housing to buy at this point...guess that one would best be asked in a different forum later on.

 

Again, thanks to everyone...I'm really getting to like wetpixel

 

Kind regards,

 

Ellen

[Arnon_Ayal 1]

However, the decision for the WA lens appears to be a bit more complicated! Luiz' favorite is the 10.5, Karl's recommendation is the Sigma 15 and Matt's recommendation is Nikon 12-24! Decisions, decisions....

You make you life too simple! what with the Tokina 12-24 or the Sigma 10-20?

All the lens except the Nikon 12-24 are more or less in the range of 450-550$, the Nikon 12-24 is almost twice the price.

The fixed fish-eye lens operate better with Ikelite small ports and they are superior in a matter of quality but the zoom lens are much more versatile, especially if you plan to take photos on land.

As I said: You make you life too simple

[Rocha 0]

Hi Ellen,

 

I know it is a tough choice, every one of those lenses has its pros and cons. The 10.5 is great, but it maybe hard for a beginner because of it's very large angle of coverage, and it gets some time to get used to it. Having said that, my best WA shots were taken with it. As Arnon said, the 12-24 is the most expensive one, but the most versatile for land use. The 15 and 16 fisheyes are also good.

 

For a lengthy discussion about these lenses (with sample photos) take a look at this topic:

 

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10462

 

Luiz

[ornate_wrasse 0]

Arnon - Well, Luiz did say that "the three most popular ones for wide angle are the Nikon 12-24, the 16 (or Sigma 15) fisheye and the 10.5 fisheye" !!

 

Knowing me, I'd probably want to go with the 10.5 solely due to Luiz' comments!

It's a lens that I can see myself growing into. A simple analogy would be my choice of regulator when I first started diving. I chose a computer that was not capable of nitrox, thinking I'd probably never need it. Lo and behold, I got nitrox certified fairly soon and needed to buy a new computer.

 

Ummm....the challenge of learning to use the 10.5 beckons me to try it!

 

But the land use argument is a rather convincing one.

 

Has anyone ever purchased lenses at www.nikonians.org? I was thinking the quality might be better than those on Ebay. That being said, I've had great success with dive-related purchases on Ebay.

 

Kind regards,

 

Ellen

[ornate_wrasse 0]

Oops, meant to say my choice of computer when I first started diving....obviously not enough coffee this morning

 

Ellen

[james 0]

Hi Ellen,

 

Great advice so far in this thread. As your first wideangle lens, I recommend the Tokina 12-24

 

I've used the Nikon 12-24 and the Tokina 12-24 and they are identical lenses, but the Tokina is $500 and the Nikon is $1,000. They are the same size.

 

The reason I recommend this WA lens is that it is very wide, very high quality, it's a zoom, and you can use it above and below water.

 

Cheers

James

[TimG 62]

Hey Ellen

 

I've been using the Nikkor 12-24 for about two years both above and below water; and have recently added the 10.5mm having seen some of Alex Mustard's excellent pics using that lens.

 

Like you I love a challenge and using the 10.5 underwater provides it. Results can be amazing or, errr, not amazing.

 

However above water I have found the 10.5 less effective. But here the 12-24 comes to the front. I use this lens almost as my primary above water lens and have found it fast, versatile and very high quality. I haven't used the Tokina - and James knows his onions. But I can say for sure that you would not be disappointed with the Nikkor 12-24 above or below water.

[ornate_wrasse 0]

Hi James,

 

That Tokina lens sounds like it has a lot going for it. Assuming the quality is equivalent to the Nikkor 12-24 (and you indicate in your post that the lens is very high quality), I'd much rather pay $500 than $1000 for essentially the same lens.

 

All the best,

 

Ellen

[Chuck Jensen 0]

Karl,

Have you used and had much success with your 18-70 underwater at all?

Cheers,

Chuck

[whatisea 0]

The purists may lynch me, but I say start with the 18-70mm kit lens. It is quite a versatile and good lens. Good to very good optics. It can go behind a dome port to get reasonably wide (though not super wide) shots. It can go behind a flat port for smaller objects. You'll need a diopter for the dome port anyway so put it behind a flat port with the diopter and you have a macro zoom lens.

 

My progression was:

18-70 Nikon with flat and dome ports

70-300 Nikon (cheap ass top side super zoom... not great, but cheap)

105 Nikon macro... It's like diving with a telescope

60 Nikon macro... hasn't been wet yet )-:

12-24 Nikon... just arrived today!!!!!

 

12-14 Nikon is $899 at B&H vs. $499 for the Tokina. $400 difference, not the $500 everyone keeps quoting. Not a huge difference but significant enough to factor into my decision. Definitiely some barrel distortion and soft corners with the Tokina. Not bad, but you can see it when you look for it.

[kdietz 0]

Chuck, I just noticed your question.

 

The 18-70mm is a good lens underwater, but we don't use it anymore. We seem to want to shoot at the extremes of WA or macro.....the 18-70mm doesn't do either very well

 

Karl

[Chuck Jensen 0]

Thanks Karl, Thats kinda what I figured....

Chuck

[Willy 0]

A beginner question about the Nikon 18-55 DX...

 

On land this lens focuses to 11.4" to give a 1:3.2 reproduction ratio. Would this hold true UW using a port? That is, could this lens be a reasonable macro?

 

Any idea how far the front of the port would be from the subject?

 

Along these lines, with the DX sensor, does a 1:3.2 ratio mean that the field of view is 3.2 x the width and length of the sensor (ie, 23.6mm x 15.8mm)? By my calculations, an object 3 inches long would fill the frame.

 

Thanks.

[Rocha 0]

Hi Willy, welcome to wetpixel.

 

When you use a lens behind a dome port it focuses on the projected image, not the actual image. So, your lens will focus in a close virtual image. I am not sure about how close the image is projected, but maybe as close as 10'', so you probably will need to use a +2 diopter in your lens to be able to use it behind a dome. Here is an interesting article about dome ports:

 

http://www.camerasunderwater.co.uk/ikelite...ages/ports.html

 

About the magnification, yes, you are right about the 3 inch subject, but keep in mind that this is the maximum reproduction ratio, so it will be 1:3.2 only at 55mm. I only consider macro lenses those that magnify to 1:1 (60, 105, etc.).

 

Luiz

[Willy 0]

Thanks Luiz, nice explanation in that link.

 

You're right, I'm really talking about using this lens as a close-up and not a macro. Now, if I were to use this lens with a macro port instead of a dome, would it's reproduction ratio be increased by the change in refractive index (ie, 1.33) so that it would have the equivalent angle of view of a 73mm (1.33x55) lens? And would this increase the max reproduction ratio to 1:2.4 (3.2/1.33)?

 

Finally, I'm a bit confused about how the close-up diopters on a zoom effect the angle of view with dome ports. From your link...

 

"[With zoom lenses] the port cannot be set-up for true wide-angle work, because the lens entrance pupil moves with the zoom control. The solution is simply to cancel the de-magnifying effect of the port by adding an approximately equal and opposite magnifying lens."

 

Now, if adding + diopters "cancels the de-magnifying effect of the port," do you no longer get the benefit of the port maintaining the same angle of view UW as above water?

 

Thanks for you help. Off to Thanksgiving turkey.

[Chris Bangs 0]

I use the 12-24 mm for WA and the 60 mm for basic macro and fish shots. The 105 mm is good for shy critters and working in gin clear water as well as shooting high magnification stuff using accessories such as diopters and teleconverters.

 

Those are my primary lenses!

 

I also have the 10.5 mm and 16 mm fisheyes, and a 14 mm, but I only uses them for situations which require super WA work, like wrecks, over/under shots and CFWA ( close focus wide angle ). The 10.5 mm and 16 mm are fisheye lenses and therefore will distort the image around the outer perimeter of the frame. more so with the 10.5mm. I avoid using these when shooting near the surface unless I want the distorted horizon.

 

for ports, of course flat for Macro and a Dome for WA and zooms, ( Bigger is better ). For traveling these days with the airlines reducing baggage weight, I suggest you get a housing that uses extension rings to match ports to different lenses instead of having to get a separate port for each lens.

[ornate_wrasse 0]

I suggest you get a housing that uses extension rings to match ports to different lenses instead of having to get a separate port for each lens.

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Hi Chris,

 

I take it that you are suggesting I choose a housing other than Ikelite. Is that correct?

 

Kind regards,

 

Ellen

[craig nelson 4]

HI

 

I quite agree with Chris on the Size weight ports issue.

 

I used to be an ikelte user, But exactly the above stopped me due to Airline luggage restrictions.

 

Now i just have

 

1x Dome port

1x Macro port

1x extension ring

 

this covers

 

18-70mm

15mm FE

60mm

60 & 2x TC

10-20mm Sigma

12-24mm Nikkor

 

basically whatever i wish in 2 ports.

 

if your going to restrict yourself to a couple of lenses or don't plan on travelling then you have no worries.

 

As for the First time lens

 

I've used the KIT 18-70MM AF-S and got some excellent results. so below, I can well recommend using that lens as a general purpose tool.

 

All shot with 18-70mm & +4 Dio.

 

 

 

Regards

 

Craig

[ikelite 0]

We will offer extension ring port system after first of year, but cost is about the same for flat ports. Present system allows us to do tricks like manual focus on 100mm Canon macro for example. Try that on other housings. An extension ring is about the same size as a port, so fill second port with socks when traveling.