PAL TO NTSC

[wagsy 0]

While I'm online, I just thought I would let you know soon of a new radical way to convert Mpeg PAL to NTSC and NTSC to PAL using simple software. I came across in my heavy researching of the last few weeks.

 

Its so easy & simple you will wonder why no one ever thought of it before and is completely different to any current way of converting. The best thing is there will be very minimum quality lost, easy, no frame blending or studder, allot faster to convert, and the sound will match up perfect as well.

 

More soon.

wags

[MikeVeitch 0]

Looking forward to hearing about it

[anthp 0]

Yeah, c'mon. Don't keep us waiting Wags!

[meekal 0]

oh boy... this is just like in a movie i saw once... it had a pretty girl and lots of colourful ballons and some heavy grind(ing) music..... anticipation was driving me crazy (insert tune by Joni Mitchell here)

[pmooney 6]

Wags -

 

The suspense is killing me.........

 

When are you going to share this new method.

 

Is it a windows only solution or is it cross -platform ?

 

Currently I play a PAL time line out through a digital standards coverter directly to whatever the required format is. ( DVD , VHS , SP, DVCAM , HDV etc ) a bit time consuming but so far no complaints in quality department from the customers at any level.

[MikeVeitch 0]

In the meantime Peter, try this: Canopus

 

It is better than the system you are using now to go PAL to NTSC and vice versa

[pmooney 6]

The convertor we us is a canopus ADVC1000 - great piece of kit that helps us meet tight time frames.

 

Sometimes our turnarounds are limited and if a mixed bunch of nationalites are to gether many formats are required simultaneously Pal , Secam & NTSC. We chanel each format into it's own dedicated dubbing rack that has a mix of machines ( DVD burner , VHS , SVHS , Beta SP , DVCAM , DV and shortly HDV ) This handles most situations - occassionaly a second run is needed.

[larsdennert 0]

To go from 25fps to 30fps my guess is people double every fifth frame.

To go from 25fps to 24fps they probably drop one.

To go from 30fps to 24fps they drop every fifth.

To go from 30fps to 25fps they drop every sixth.

 

Compress the frame time to add up to one second and then add the second of original audio back in.

 

Many movies jumped up from 24 to 30 have that "jerky" look when the action is fast.

What stinks is that it's 29.97fps. Another 10%/100 under.

[wagsy 0]

O sorry about that, got side track with other things.

 

I was going to make a how to page, but you can go here and have a read.

 

http://neuron2.net/dgpulldown/dgpulldown.html

 

Basically encode from a PAL timeline a progressive Mpeg2 file to 720/480 @ 25fps then run the file thorough the pulldown program, then make your NTSC DVD. It will trick the DVD player to run at 29fps(NTSC) rate. It just plays faster but most people will never know. It's what they do to 23p films anyhow to get then to run @29fps NTSC on DVD players.

 

You can also go from NTSC to PAL. Encode out a progressve Mpeg 2 file from a NTSC timeline, 720/576 @ 23fps and then run it throught the pulldown program to get to Pal 25fps.

 

Have a go and tell me what you think.

The one's I made play great.

 

Wags

[richorn 0]

not sure this is needed for DVD playback.

 

Most DVDs are encoded at 24 fps (to save space) and the player adds the pull down "auto-magically".

 

The "main" difference between NTSC and PAL in the MPEG-2 realm is the frame size (number of video lines).

[wagsy 0]

Hi Richorn

Well encode out a progressive 720/480 25p mpeg2 file from a PAL 25fps (50i)timeline you have basically have no quality loss or blended frames.

 

Run it through the little program and you now still have a 720/480 25fps (50i) file but flagged to run abit faster @ 29.97i (60fps) when you make your NTSC DVD and pop it into a player.

Sound is still the same as well just plays abit faster.

 

If you encode a NTSC 23.9764p (24p) from a PAL timline you may end up with frame blending and other problems plus you have to slow down the audio to match. Alot of messing around.

 

If you encode out a 29.976i from a PAL timeline you will get frame blending, skips etc as it has to make up frames.

 

If you encode a 23.98p (24p) DVD it will play at 29.976i once you place it in a NTSC DVD player. If it is a progressive player hooked up to a progressive TV it will play the NTSC DVD @ 24p. Better quality. PAL DVD's do the same but at 25p or 25i.

 

Most NTSC DVD's made from the computer are encoded out to 29.976i or PAL 25i. ( i = interlaced )

 

This is just a very fast and simple way if one needs to make NTSC DVD's from a PAL timeline.

 

I think I got that right...although correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Wags

[Nick Hope 151]

I investigated PAL > NTSC conversion methods using pulldown a few years ago. I wasn't satisfied with the results but I can't remember exactly why.

 

25fps > 30fps is a 20% increase in playback speed. That's quite substantial, especially if you're converting a soundtrack too. If anything I would rather have my DVDs play back slower, especially for those atmospheric underwater scenes.

 

However this method may be great if you're on a budget.

 

Personally I'm in the Canopus Procoder camp and I'm happy with the results, although very slight steppiness can still be detected in high-motion scenes.

 

Sony Vegas apparently also makes a very nice PAL > NTSC conversion without any extra plugins.

 

If you're obsessive over smoothness I've heard Twixtor can do and even better job than Procoder.

 

Nick

[wagsy 0]

Hi Nic

 

Strange thing though with this method the PAL and NTSC mpeg 2 files that I made play the exact same speed and length when watching them side by side on a twin screen computer? On the TV I cannot pick the difference in speed except the PAL is progressive and the NTSC ends up interlaced.

The file specs are:

PAL 50 720/576 @25 fps progressive

NTSC 60 720/480 @ 29.97 fps interlaced

The DVD player and TV tells me the NTSC is NTSC and PAL is a PAL signal.

 

I messed around with Procoder 2 but in the end did not like the frame blending on movement that showed up on certain scences. DV Atlantis dropped the quality to much. Magic bullet took forever and ever and ever and ever and so does twixter.

Video Xpress was very good but frame stutter on certain shots, abit like procoder.

 

Sony Vegas took forever to load up, install this reboot, install that, reboot, download this, reboot, download the updated download, reboot, then the trial would not register because my computer clock was set to a wrong time. When I did get it loaded up, it was so strange to use. So back to Premiere Pro, straight forward and easy.

 

Give it ago and let me know what you think.

 

Wags

[purpleturtle 0]

Has the world gone mad?????

 

Know your audience...shoot and encode(to ntsc or pal) as required.

 

Not - spend your life re-watching footage(simultaneously on twin screens) and hoping that your audience has good eyesight and a v. good telly!

 

Some idiots are still shooting with - videographers who'll work free, crap cameras, scratched lenses, bad or no editing, no creativity etc etc for customers with 1-20 dives, who dont know what they're watching, on a shit old telly(not LCD or plasma), a DVD player that plays nothing but toast...and dont even know how to open the Mpeg4 file that I posted for them anyway AAAAARRRRrrrggghhhhhhh.

 

There are more obvious problems to this job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wagsy 0]

Go purpleturtle.......videographers who'll work free, why would you do that? Free dives or trips I suppose.

 

People are and will start to notice as more watch them on their computers and they have better TV screens nowdays.

 

Filming, making and selling 500 PAL/NTSC DVD's to customers during a 3 month Whale Shark season with only a couple complaints each year, one wants to make sure they work & the quality is okay. Well at least I do.

 

wags

[MikeVeitch 0]

Good rant Turtle....me gets the feeling he works as a dive resort video guy!

[wagsy 0]

Could be.

 

Hey Mike, have you tried that colour boost thing yet?

 

I'm inside today, will try it tomorow.

 

Wags

[larsdennert 0]

Wow does the FX1 do both NTSC and PAL wagsy? I thought only the Z1 did that. Why don't you take a drive over to Sydney and buy a second camera?

 

Oh BTW nice software find. My dad's old Sony PC camera would read PAL tapes though it was an NTSC camera. I never had software at the time to see if it could capture PAL.

[wagsy 0]

FX1 does only PAL.

PAL is beter than NTSC.

 

Sony MINI DV cameras can read Sony Pal or NTSC or DVCAM mini DV tapes.

If you firwire two Sony MINI DV cameras together, one PAL and the other NTSC, the NTSC camera will display the firewired PAL signal and record it in PAL and vise versa.

 

Sydney is like 6000KM away by road...

[DeanB 19]

Hi all,

 

I have a brilliant way of converting from PAL to NTSC.. I go out and film whatever in PAL, edit, then pop up to my mates house and say "Hello mate, can you give me a few copys of this in NTSC format".. Then low and behold 2 days later there they are..Magic. All for a couple of pints..

 

I have so far given away 30 - 40 copies of my film for free and also sold 15 of them for £10 each. The money goes to kidney research... I have yet to find somebody silly enough to pay me to film anything..

 

 

"Soon my precious, soon"

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB