Official Insurance Thread

[wetpixel 0]

This topic has been revisited many times here (use search!).

 

Two programs that a lot of people around here use:

 

D.E.P.P. (with two Ps):

http://www.equipmentprotection.com/programs/depp.html

 

DAN Equipment Insurance (what I use):

https://www.h2oinsurance.com/

 

Both are reputable, and have given money back to people I know who have lost equipment. DAN gives you cash for replacement, which is great because you aren't locked into buying the same camera again (it may be obsolete by the time it floods). I believe DEPP works by replacement, on their terms (meaning that they can get you the equipment themselves instead of providing cash for you to do your own shopping). Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

[bearaway 1]

Both are reputable, and have given money back to people I know who have lost equipment.  DAN gives you cash for replacement, which is great because you aren't locked into buying the same camera again (it may be obsolete by the time it floods).  I believe DEPP works by replacement, on their terms (meaning that they can get you the equipment themselves instead of providing cash for you to do your own shopping).  Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

I had experience with DEPP during my trip. I was given money back rather than 'equipment' as I was able to buy it myself in Singapore since it was more economical than buy it and having it sent to Singapore (tax + shipping +delay).

 

It took 4 months to get my money back. And I spent A LOT of energy on that. I plan to write a report on my experience with it on my blog some day as I find that such experience are interesting.

 

My main complain is about the lack of visibility about the claim progress and the dramatic communication.

 

As for H2OInsurance they don't cover non us residents.

[MrFish 0]

For those residing in the UK another insurance option is DiveMaster Insurance

 

I have been very pleased with them so far. I have just submitted my first claim for a flooded strobe, so i shall know soon just how good they are. But the first signs are promising, they were very courteous and rang me the day they received my claim to let me know they had received it and that they would be looking at it within a couple of days.

 

The policy is new for old.

[MrFish 0]

Dive-Master Insurance have now settled my claim. They offered to buy and send me a Ike SS200 as a replacement for my dead SB-102. I told them i would prefer to buy an Alpha so they have agreed to send me a cheque for £748.

 

No quibbles or hassle. I was so impressed i actually sent them a e-mail praising them for their help. A first for an insurance company from me!!

[Simon K. 0]

After I bought Erics S&S Housing for my D60 I also have to think about Insurance

 

DAN is not possible beacause i'm not a US-Resident

 

That leaves me with DiveMaster and Depp but in both of there contracts are clauses that could be a problem:

 

DEPP: They requier to ship Flooded Gear out within 5 days after the flooding occured. What would I do if I am on a live aboard and/or in a part of the world that wont allow me safe shipment.

 

DM: They have a clause, that they will only cover flooding damages if:

"but only if evidence is supplied that the damaged items have been

serviced in accordance with manufacturers/suppliers recommendations and

that after flooding "First Aid" to the damaged unit is carried out in

accordance with the manufacturers recommendation."

What does that mean exactly?

 

Another Questions: When you have a housing without electronics: do you cover it for flooding damages or only the actual camera gear?

 

Thanks Simon

[james 0]

Hi Simon,

 

Dan has a similar clause about getting a claim started right away after the item is flooded. They don't require you to send in the gear though, just take it to an authorized service center. I haven't found it to be a problem and just started the claim when I returned form my dive trip. I'd check by calling and asking, then following up by email, so you "have it in writing."

 

"First aid" for digital SLR cameras is pretty much a joke. The usual first aid for a film camera flood is "soak it in fresh water." Well - that doesn't work with a digital SLR now does it? lol.

 

Whatever you do, you MUST have camera insurance. It may be the only thing that can save your sanity when (not if) your camera gear gets flooded.

 

Cheers

James

[Craig Ruaux 0]

DEPP: They requier to ship Flooded Gear out within 5 days after the flooding occured. What would I do if I am on a live aboard and/or in a part of the world that wont allow me safe shipment.

 

My italics added above...

 

My experience with a DEPP claim following a flood while a long way from shipping and service... I took the camera and housing to DEPP's annointed service facility in Australia on the first day this was feasible, they looked at it and sent an email to DEPP saying that repair of the camera was not feasible. I then carried the housing back to the US and shipped it myself to Ikelite for repair.

 

Time from flood to shipping for repair was more than two weeks, nobody even blinked and the claim was handled in a reasonable and rapid fashion. If I had been in Florida it probably would have been different. I think that there is a certain amount of common sense on the part of the DEPP people in situations like this, and they will not deny a claim if you flooded a camera/housing while a long way from anywhere as long as you show some reasonable effort to notify them as soon as it is actually possible.

[kdietz 0]

I wanted to let everyone know about my recent experience with a travel insurance company..... http://www.travelinsured.com

 

We bought a policy for our liveaboard trip with Nekton to Mona Island last month. I shopped the web and they had the best coverage and price.

 

I lost my wedding band on the first day of diving. Good thing my wife was with me or I would have gotten a lot more grief!

 

I didn't have it scheduled on my home owner's policy...my bad!...but I checked with the travel insurance and found that they cover up to $250 per piece of jewelry. Didn't cover the cost of the ring, but it was better than nothing!

 

I downloaded forms online and mailed everything to them. I got a check in less than two weeks.

 

A very good experience and I'll use them again!

 

Karl

[Kelpfish 15]

I just plugged in a quote for my camera equipment on the DAN H20 site and had about the same amount of gear as last year (dollar wise). The price is almost doubled from about $210 a year to more than $400 a year. Anyone else using this insurance notice a hike in premiums?

 

Joe

[tshepherd 0]

I haven't renewed mine, but when I added some gear recently, I did notice that some of the terms have changed. One notable one is that gear is not covered if it is washed overboard. Looks as though DAN (or FFIC as the case may be) is feeling a little pinch from people conveniently "losing" gear when it's time to upgrade, and is maybe raising rates to reflect the increased losses?

 

I hope that's not the case, I'd hate for a few unethical people to ruin it for the rest of us. Of course, it's possible that they have just had to pay out more as digicams are less "repairable" after a flood than film cameras.

 

[james 0]

I added some equipment before my Hawaii trip in Feb and it cost about $30 to add a thousand dollars or so worth of gear. I wasn't upset about that.

 

But it may have gone up since then.

 

Cheers

Jame

[tshepherd 0]

Same here James,but this may be specific to renewals. Insurance rates are sometimes held at a fixed level for the duration of a given policy, so adding gear wouldn't be the same as renewing a policy.

 

The other alternative is that Joe crossed a threshold, even if the dollar amount was close, and the insurance rates jumped because of that.

 

My policy is up for renewal in about a month, so if I remember, I'll post then,

[donauw 0]

Mine nearly doubled last year compared to the year prior. There was not longer than much difference between DAN and DEPP.

[echeng 0]

Hi, guys. There are two new clauses in the DAN insurance paperwork this year. The first exclusion is:

 

"ITEMS LOST WHILE IN YOUR CARE, CUSTODY AND CONTROL -- WHILE IN USE BOTH IN AND OUT OF THE WATER, DROPPED OVERBOARD OR SWPET OVER-BOARD" (yes, it is listed in all caps)

 

The second states that if your equipment is stolen, you have to notify the local authorities immediately.

 

I asked for clarification on the first clause, and I received this as a reply:

 

"The exclusion states that if your equipment is swept overboard or you lose

equipment while diving, it is not covered. The program is designed to cover

your equipment due to loss while in the possession of the airline, i.e. if

the airlines lose your equipment or it is damaged, and for theft and damage,

i.e. water damage."

 

What I want is insurance that also covers accidental or forced loss. I will probably drop my camera if I'm in a life-threatening situation and have to ditch it to survive. But once I recover, I want my insurance to cover it.

 

Any tips?

[tshepherd 0]

Report to the local authorities that some guy named Neptune and his female sidekick Ariel stole it from you?

[echeng 0]

I asked DEPP about their insurance, and this is what I got back. Looks like I may have to switch...? Considering it.

 

1) Do you complete loss of equipment while diving (under extreme

circumstances, like life-threatening conditions)?

 

We do cover loss with a letter from the dive boat operation verifing circumstances of loss and whether the equipement was looked for and if not why such as rough water, too deep, rip current etc.

 

2) Do you cover complete loss of equipment due to it being swept overboard?

 

We also cover loss due to this with the same requirment as above required.

 

3) Do you cover non-diving, non-photographic equipment like computers?

 

We cover dive computers only no laptops or accessories. We do cover land camera once you have met the DEPP policy requirements. These requirements are that you must have one BCD, one Regulator and one other dive related items listed before camera gear is eligible.

[astrl 0]

Can't remember if mind doubled or not, but it definitely went up. I only added one item and it wasn't expensive.

 

astrl

[echeng 0]

I need to decide whether to switch to DEPP from DAN.

 

DAN people were not very friendly over e-mail when I was trying to get clarification of how they handle loss (they don't cover loss AT ALL if you are in possession of the item when you lose it -- above, or below water). This means that if you break your camera accidentally, it is covered. but if it is broken, falls to the boat's floor, and someone kicks it over, you're S.O.L.

 

DEPP covers complete loss if you get the boat to sign a statement saying that it was because of extraordinary circumstances. But DEPP doesn't always give you cash, and will sometimes replace lost/damaged equipment with something equivalent.

 

well. I have a week or two to decide.

[brandoncole 3]

Eric and others-

 

I spent about 5 hours on the phone with both DAN and DEPP this past week. I have policies with both... I've been with DEPP for about 5 years, DAN for 2. Yes, DAN's policy just went up 30%+ and also added a couple of exclusions. Long ago, DEPP's flood premium wasn't too bad... then it went up... DAN offered a slightly better rate on gear until you actually flood it... then, because deductible is so high, you pay through the shorts.

 

Now, with DAN's increases, I think DEPP offers the better plan- at least if you don't need to insure everything for flood.

 

I never have flooded gear, but with the new pricey digital cameras out there now it's a real concern. By far the biggest risk for me is theft or loss while traveling.

 

You are right- DAN's new exclusion (loss, wash overboard, etc.) sucks. I spoke at length with Jay about it. I brought up the emergency camera ditch situation, and they won't cover it. And if I'm standing in a boat shooting whales and drop camera over, they won't cover it anymore. Bad news.

 

I also argued about the practicality of filing a police report IMMEDIATELY in some overseas locations... Believe me, this sometimes is not possible. DAN couldn't comment...

 

DAN's problem- no screening mechanism. No price breaks for good record (ie no claims). Lots of claims have resulted in them losing big bucks, according to the execs. DAN has just priced themselves out of the game, if you have lots of gear (say 20-40k) to insure.

 

Everyone needs to take a serious look at the deductibles... work the numbers between the two plans... for example, to insure say one $10 k gear setup (1ds, lens, and housing, for ex) for flood for one year, and to flood it that year, costs approx $750 for DEPP and $1300 for DAN...

 

Work the numbers for your own situation....

 

brandon

[herbko 0]

I'm considering just covering the camera and lenses. The Aquatica housing looks like it would be easy to resurrect after a flood, same for the ports which I don't think even has a serial number. It also does not look too likely that I'd flood one of the Inon strobes either.

 

Of course, I would not be covered if I dropped the whole rig in 1000' of water, but that does not seem too likely.

[dhaas 33]

Guys,

 

I've had a rider policy with State Farm (cars and homeowners, too) for years at 100% replacement cost with me defining that cost. I'll double check exclusions after reading this but haven't had a claim in years and my agent has always been accomodating as long as a claim is legit.....

 

I've reduced coverage of items over the years to the following:

 

Digital cameras and lenses, plus land and underwater flashes. As already noted housings flooded can be resurrected pretty easily. Ikelite's underwater strobes can usually be repaired at super reasonable rates, too.

 

Food for thought......

 

David Haas

[echeng 0]

Brandon - Thanks for your comments, and welcome to the board (again)!

 

Dave - but what does that State Farm rider cover? I can certainly put a rider on the items with my home owner's insurance, but I've had problems getting them to cover flood and loss while in my custody. In order to make it affordable, my deductible is also around $500.

[james 0]

I like Brandon's suggestion - look at how much it costs to be "self insured" vs getting coverage w/ DAN or DEPP. Add up yearly premiums, plus deductible, and compare to replacement cost. Don't forget small items like batteries and memory cards. When calculating replacement cost - make sure you take into acct. camera depreciation. I replaced an S2 recently for $1,500 that I bought for $2,100. Digital assets depreciate fast!

 

Cheers

James

[MikeO 5]

Like Dave, I have a special rider on my homeowner's policy that covers all my photo-related gear. It is most certainly less expensive than the specialty insurers, but I also do it with full knowledge that "normal" insurance companies look dimly on people actually making claims against the policy they paid good money for in good faith (please no lectures on rate raising).

 

As for DAN. Suffice it to say that I have been summarily displeased with their ability to do anything other than take my money. I had the preferred plan with them and attempted to make a claim after blowing out my knee. I had to cancel a trip and tried to make a claim for reimbursement. Because the knee had been operated on previously they denied my claim as a pre-existing condition. They did not care or even want to hear that I had recovered from the prior sugery, been certified by my doctor to dive again, then re-injured the knee. I found this to be akin to my car insurance company telling me that they weren't going to compensate me after someone crashed into my truck because the truck had been hit and fixed the year before. Their trip insurance is farmed out to a third party company that doesn't give a rats ass about divers, only in minimizing cost. I still have DAN dive insurance but only because I haven't explored the newer options yet . . .

 

Mike

[echeng 0]

James -

 

"Add up yearly premiums, plus deductible, and compare to replacement cost."

 

That's not entirely accurate. You have to take the best case (no loss) and worst case (loss, taking into account deductible), and run the numbers for both.

 

It also sounds like you are comparing self-insurance with DAN/DEPP. You can only get an interesting number for "self-insurance" (which is really just no insurance, right?) if you project an expected loss over some number of years. The numbers are never going to compete favorably with insurance until the expected number of years before a loss goes up.

 

Part of what we pay for is also peace-of-mind. I'm not sure how to value that.