Dive Op wants to use my pic, should I charge?

[NWDiver 42]

A dive operator that we really liked would like to use the attached shot for their website and brochures. Up to this point I have just given them away, these guys are big. I am flattered and will give it to them but should I ask for anything? If so what?

[james 0]

Heck yeah you should ask for something! They are going to use the photo to promote their business and MAKE MONEY, so you should too. At the very least you should make your 'lowest acceptable price' be some free diving w/ them. If they are associated w/ a hotel, see if you can get accomodations AND diving.

 

Good luck!

James

[yahsemtough 0]

I fully agree with James.

 

The picture was not free to take and they are not family so why would you not charge. Great shot by the way!

 

Todd

[Alex_Mustard 0]

It is also important that in general we underwater photographers don't give our images away for free otherwise we devalue all underwater images.

 

Generally it is easiest for dive centres to pay you in diving. So ask them for what they can give you most easily. You will get much more value that way (as long as you want the free diving).

 

Money is of course much more useful - as having loads of free diving doesn't help you buy groceries!

 

Alex

[james 0]

Groceries? Who needs those when there is Top Ramen!? Buy camera gear instead...:-)

 

Cheers

James

[Arnon_Ayal 1]

Money is of course much more useful - as having loads of free diving doesn't help you buy groceries!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In 'groceries' I assume you mean groceries from B&H

[Lionfish43 0]

That's a great image - don't give it away. I know it's tempting to see your work published but if you give it away you not only devalue your work but also the work of every other u/w photographer. You can't blame them for trying to get images for free but they wouldn't be in business for long if they gave away their trips. At the very least I would expect accommodations and diving for a week. I'd push for meals too.

 

Bartering can lead to some slippery situations though. A few years ago I provided a dive operator with some images (dupe slides) to use in a slide presentation at trade shows. A little while later I discovered my photos being used in their print advertisements. When I confronted them about it they said they had paid me for the images by giving me free diving. Watch your back and get it in writing, handshake agreements can turn ugly.

[MikeVeitch 0]

Groceries?  Who needs those when there is Top Ramen!?  Buy camera gear instead...:-)

 

Cheers

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

James! Ramen!!! i didn't know you worked in the dive industry! we are two peas in a pod....

 

I agree with the rest of em, you definitely should get somethign out of it. ANd the most important is as Larry said.... Get it in writing!

 

Be very specific of the image with a description, also be very specific in the usage of that image. If it is for brochure say brochure, don't say "all media"

 

I would also suggest a time frame....1 year, 2 year 5 year etc

[james 0]

Don't forget Mike, I went to grad school too...:-)

 

Cheers

James

[Tonym 0]

Don't forget Mike, I went to grad school too...:-)

 

Cheers

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Oh come on James, no one that went to Berkley ate Top Ramen when you had all of the great places in Bezerkly to graze in.

[NWDiver 42]

Update

In the Dive Ops original email they asked if I had any other shots they could use so here is what I offered:

 

CD with 10 photos they could pick and choose from for use in their promotional material for one free trip in 07. We would be willing to pay in full, now, for my wife. So far no response.

[Soulfish 0]

Awesome shot! I'd charge.

[scubamarli 5]

Ditto to those that say "charge". It's a stunning shot that could make a great cover, for example, or a contest entry that wins a trip. What ever you agree to, put it in writing with an end date to the use, or they'll never have to pay for photos again.

 

Cheers,

Marli

[scubamarli 5]

I also meant to comment, as you've had no reply, (perhaps they're thinking it over), how many times when you state a reasonable price for using your images, (not that you'll ever recoup even the teensiest portion of what it cost to take the image), you don't hear back. Ask them to check out licensing costs, so they see you're not making up prices willy nilly. This is a good site for estimating:

 

http://photographersindex.com/price-ed-calc.dbm

 

Cheers,

Marli

[Kelpfish 15]

Martin,

 

That image is perfect for marketing uses because it leaves open the right side blue negative for type. I think you'll hear back depending on how they intend to use the image. If it was for web use, I doubt they'll fork out a 2-3k trip. But if it's for bigger promotional use, they might work with you.

 

Joe

[NWDiver 42]

Well Joe you have smitten the nail upon it’s crux. After a couple emails we settled on 50% off, about a $1300 value. Anyone have a boilerplate basic agreement? I did cave and will give them the picture “foreverâ€.

[pitchcontrol 0]

Hi guys, newby to the site here, i would just add two things:

 

GREAT piccie

 

Also insist that you are creditted with the shot everytime it is used, good advertising for yourself as well.

 

Graham

[Kelpfish 15]

Hi Martin,

 

I would make sure that "forever" means for as long as the operation is in business and under the same ownership, "AND" that forever does not mean they can resell the image.

 

Great job, by the way.

 

Joe

[claycoleman 0]

I have no opinion on whether you should charge. However, if you're giving that image away, I'll take it. -Clay

[Kelpfish 15]

And Clay, would YOU make money on it?

[pmooney 6]

Well Joe you have smitten the nail upon it’s crux.  After a couple emails we settled on 50% off, about a $1300 value.  Anyone have a boilerplate basic agreement?  I did cave and will give them the picture “foreverâ€.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Does this mean that you sold the image or that you have released this image for unlimited perpetual use by these people ?

 

Never underestimate the value of your work - it's like doing a high dive .

 

The degree of difficulty multiplied by the uniqueness of the shot equals the dollar value..................

 

Nice shot by the way.

 

Peter

[claycoleman 0]

And Clay, would YOU make money on it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi Joe. It looks like money in the bank to me. -Clay

[NWDiver 42]

Peter good to hear from you, looks like we will be seeing you next yr. The deal is I swap the photo for the discount. I believe it will show up in a brochure that just went to print. In addition if I do a 1000 word report on the next trip and some photos another discount on a future trip. I understand the interest in getting value for the photos; being the first time I have negotiated one of these deals I appreciate all the help.

[rob2000 0]

Good shot, but I think you could have got more for it. The dead space on the right is a dream for laying up text and hence it's ideal for advertising. Advertising pays big time.

 

Also, any image should be sent with a delivery note stating the licence terms by which the picture can be used. 'Forever' is not really an option and legally speaking it's fairly meaningless.

 

Next time, define the period and back up the licence terms with terms and conditions more water tight than a mermaid's bra. The problem with not doing so is that a company further down the line might want to buy the image and they might well ask where else it's been sold to and under what terms. This can be the clincher as to whether it sells again or not. Afterall who's going to buy a picture which has already been given away to someone 'forever'...

 

My terms and conditions are linked to from my site (see the link at the bottom of the page which this link points to): Terms and conditions (sample)

 

To go with these t&c's I send a delivery not which, for example, would read:

 

Licence terms: Use of the picture contained herein for five years starting from 1st January 2006 on a non-exclusive basis for reproduction in print media only in the United Kingdom. Subject to attached Terms & Conditions.

Moral Rights Asserted.

 

Hope this helps.

[NWDiver 42]

More great info. Nice to see some legal verbiage that can be used by those of us who have no clue. The value thing seems to be more difficult. One site said $200 for one image in a printing of 200000pcs. I know comparing a trip discount to cash in hand is difficult but in effect I received $1300 for this shot. Would be great to hear some deals some of you pros have worked in similar situations. It would give us amateurs a baseline. I tried to get the trip for free but was told point blank that they don’t do that for anyone.