Backup camera

[Alex_Mustard 0]

Its a topic that came up a lot on the Wetpixel shark week. What to do about backup cameras.

 

My attitude is somewhat unusual and since hearing everyone elses views I have become a little paranoid!

 

I have never really been into back ups. I have never had a Subal flood and I have never had a Nikon stop working (although the less said about my Subtronics, the better). I also believe that underwater photos aren't that important and if my camera failed and a trip yielded no images then it wouldn't be the end of the world. And if it was an assignment, 9 times out of 10 I could always come home, apologise to the magazine, get my camera fixed and re-book the trip with my own money (for less than the price of having a second D2X).

 

My attitude also comes from the fact I dive a lot in Cayman - where it is easy to hire or buy a replacement should the worst happen.

 

One interesting point that came up on the trip is that a Canon 1DS Mk2 shooter has an excellent choice of cheaper backups (either as 1D Mk2 or 1DS), while Nikon D2X shooters don't have this option as neither the D2H or D2Hs really cut it for my outputs.

 

Anyway you can now pick up dealer warrenty D2Xs for about 66% of the new price. And I am tempted. But as my local dealer said to me, it is a lot of money to pay for a camera that is just going to sit in a bag.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Alex

[herbko 0]

How much does it cost to rent the body for a week? Would it make sense to do that for the important assigments.

 

If you buy the 2nd body, get another housing to go with it and a couple of 8 GB cards and you can go days between doing camera reconfigurations. I am always a little concern about working on my rig on a small rocking boat like the Shearwater. It's easy to make mistakes like spill wine into housing. . It would be great to have a macro and a wideangle setup already to go. Craig Jones had two complete kits when we were at Lembeh, and I was a little envious.

[elbuzo 8]

The main reason for me to have a second body is the oportunity to make some surface shoots while on diving trips .

 

Some places like Cocos , Galapagos , Guadalupe , Silver Banks , etc , sometimes you have so many things happening at the surface that you need to capture them in order to have the whole story. Taking your camera in and out the housing will make you lost some opportunities and increase your possibilities to make a mistake or to have a failure .

 

It's true that you can shoot at surface with a cheaper camera but anyway you need to spend some money in that body and if you have a flood it will not solve your problem.

 

And floods happens !! . My first and only was during a lenghty trip to Fiji and if i didn't have a second body , i think i would spend more money in sedatives and psicological treatment than the cost of the camera !!

 

I admire your cool british approach , but mine is to always use a camera that i can afford to have a second body . My historial is Nikon N90s , D70s and now D200s.

 

Just my toughs

 

JA

[Kelpfish 15]

For me, I go on trips to shoot images. If my camera dies, my purpose for going has ended. Since I pay for my trips myself and am not rich, going back would cost as much if not more than a D2X. For me, redundancy is well worth it. When I was in Lembeh last summer, my D100 in the housing died on day three or four of 15 days there. If I didn't have a back-up, I would have came home from an expensive trip (me plus wife) with no good images and the propensity to spend another 10k to get back out there, plus buy another camera so I don't get hosed again. That is too expensive a proposition for me. Go with a redundant camera, unless you have unlimited funds.

 

Joe

[bacripe 0]

If you talk about getting a second housing also, you're really talking some serious money.

 

Personally, my "backup" camera doesn't just sit in a bag. It gets used for topside so that I don't have to constantly take my camera in/out of the housing. Some places this is less of an issue, but as I'm sure you discovered on Shearwater, there is a mizture of topside and underwater action. I set my housing up, and then if some topside action is happening (wrangling, etc.) I don't have to pull my camera out, switch to a telephoto lens, and then switch it all back to go diving. With a large enough CF card my camera stays in it's housing all day - all I ever have to do is change batteries in my strobes. The 70-200 basically lives on my "backup" body and the camera gets plenty of use. Just make sure if you're on a liveaboard your camera gets a chance to warm up before you rush out on the back deck - few things are a frustrating and missing shots while you wait for the fog to evaporate off your lens :-P

 

I'm glad you guys had a good trip on Shearwater - I wish I could have crewed your trip out there, but hopefully we'll see you back again soon!

[Kelpfish 15]

"Personally, my "backup" camera doesn't just sit in a bag."

 

 

Yea, I forgot about that too. When I am shooting topside (wildflowers, weddings, parties) I have both systems set up with different lenses. Great point.

 

Joe

[Steve Jones 0]

how about this one? - 20 rolls of Velvia, £66 from 7dayshop, and take your old F100 and Subal (or did you sell it, Alex?).

 

Sure more weight, but you have complete redundancy in a still reasonably lightweight system.

 

My opinion is that if you still own an old film system that's now no more than a paperweight, your investment has already been made - better that it's backing you up in the field than lying under your bed.

 

Steve

[Paul Kay 51]

Alex

 

It all depends on why you have a back-up. If its because of a potential flood, then you need a spare camera, spare lens AND a spare flash socket AND at minimum, a spare camera PC socket fitting cable (half a Nikon SC11 works well), because if you flood a housing you will lose camera, lens and almost certainly your housing's internal circuitry as well. I try to carry these spares with me and if the worst came to the worst, I could probably get the housing up and running again in a Heath Robinson sort of a way as I do carry a spare body and several lenses.

 

If your worry is about the D2X failing then I'd say its pretty unlikely (in my experience Nikon Pro series cameras are fundamentally quite reliable), but apologising to a client isn't nearly as good as supplying some sort of images - even if they are lower res! D2H bodies are pretty cheap used now!

 

Lastly, for info, whilst it is possible to modify a housing built for a 1DSMkII or 1DMkII to fit a 1DS or 1D, they are NOT dimensionally identical and some controls need 'easing'! Possible if essential!!! I use a 1DS in a MkII housing.

[diveh2o 0]

I have never had the luxury of a backup but my current D100 set-up will become my back up and my D200 setup will be my primary camera. i will leave the D100 out of the housing with a 70-200 on it, and the housing will be ready to throw it in there should that me necessary. This also would allow me to take a macro and wide-angle camera both on one dive... never done this before but it would be fun and probably unecessarily intense.

[Alex_Mustard 0]

Glad I posted this. Has generated some really useful replies.

 

Alex

[Rocha 0]

Alex, you are cheap! Get another D2x! They now cost $3,999 on BH ($4,499 - $500 rebate). Opz, forgot you are in the UK! Just kidding, that's too much even with the rebates, I know.

 

But come to think about it, a D200 + Subal housing would cost about the same as a second Subal ND2.

 

Luiz

 

P.S.: If you're into ebay stuff, you can get a D2x with less than 1000 actuations for a bit more than $3000.

[yahsemtough 0]

I got a second 20D body for topside and backup. The nice thing for topside was I keep it in a UK box out on the deck so I did not have to worry about condensation coming from the air conditioned inside to outside to capture an image.

 

The other nice thing is of course, I have a back-up. Now, being cheap ; ) I bought a used 20D for less that $1000. So, not the same issue as a D2X. But, to make sure I was covered for a potential water or wine issue (Herb ) I also got a second set of bulkhead connectors. It is the only electronics in the housing and I could change out the bulkhead and be ready to go again. Well, and a spare set of orings.

 

As for taking a trip and not being able to take photos, I'll pretend you didn't say that.

 

Cheers

Todd

[dmoss 0]

I also believe that underwater photos aren't that important and if my camera failed and a trip yielded no images then it wouldn't be the end of the world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That's it !!!! I'm returning my magic filters tomorrow

 

My backup 20D arrived this week. The thought of a dead camera at the beginning of a dive week convinced me. I only get to take a couple of trips a year so the pictures I take are very important. I guess it really depends on each individual's situation.

 

Very interesting thread. Might make a good candidate for a 'member's poll'.

[UWphotoNewbie 1]

Alex,

 

Doesn't the D2H fit the D2x housing? The D2H seemed to provide publishable results for a lot of people. I would think a D2H would make a great backup. A quick ebay search showed you could get a mint version of this for $1-1.5K

 

 

As for the question of backups in general I think your previous camera system makes the best backup system. You can never be sure what will likely fail--the housing is just as likely as the camera to fail and become unusable. Unless its something dumb, like user error or a bad O-ring you might not be able to fix the housing in the field, in which case you are better off having a complete seperate backup system.

 

I use my previous consumer camera as a backup system. It weighs about as much as one DSLR lens housing included and makes a great camera for the beach and on the boat. To this I can add accessory lenses and my DSLR strobes if I want to get really fancy.

 

Perhaps in a few years when I upgrade to the D500, the D70 will be my backup system.

 

You have written about your consumer point and shoot sysytem and how much fun it is. I would suggest you already have a backup system!

 

Your magic filters make great backup strobes as well!

[jcclink 8]

A way to rationalize expenditures for backup equipment is not as a major up front cost (which it probably is) but as an investment that will last for several years. $1000 over 5 yrs is only $200/yr - not that big of a deal. I totally agreee with advantages to having a second(backup) camera available for topside shooting. Both cameras will be used. Compared to the cost of some of our major trips, backup is a justifaible cost if its photos you're really after. I backup everything electronic that goes in the water - big parts & little parts. Thats why they invented platinum cards.

[hoovermd 0]

Nikonos V + 15mm lens +10 rolls E6 (still sitting in my 'fridge) = decent backup rig

Cost is $0 since I can't seem to part witht hem yet

[Giles 1]

Alex, having done too many dives with you and bejing acustomed to your very nonn chalant attitude towards your equipment I'd say don't bother.

 

You are possibly the least anal person I know about orings and opening and closing your housing etc.

 

IMO the only reason you should get a second body is if you want it.

Your righ UW photography isn't that important, but maybe keeping your clients happy is.

I have always been disgusted by pro tennis players who can't return a ball or get it in everytime, a basketball player should be able to get a penalty shot everytime ... it's what they are paid to do. (this is where my opinion changes) If you are doing assignments that someone else is paying for and paying you for, you owe them a certain level of professionalism to return with that product if not uploaded it as you did it. Bar a plague of locusts, not enough money for taxi, dog eating your laptop or god forbid you just took crap photos as a pro you don't have excuses.

The Saying has always been a bad worjkman always blames his tools .. do you wanna be a bad workman Alex ?

 

And as it is heading towards friday midnight in the UK i doubt we will hear anything from Alex until late afternoon saturday or even sunday, cause i know he's working 'ahem' hard now!

 

nb. i'd love to be able to afford one camera thats not 3 or more years old.

[dbh 0]

When I was shooting the D70, I had a backup body. Now that I made the switch to the D200, I really could not justify the $$$ for a D200 backup. So I bought my wife a Fuji E900 (to use when I am not on dive trips <_< ) and an Ikelite housing. I aready had a tray, fiber optic cable for my Inon's and a couple of close-uo lenses......so I can still shoot decent macro....and it is relatively inexpensive. Doesn't take up much extra space or weight either.

 

Dave

[diveh2o 0]

I think your previous camera system makes the best backup system.  You can never be sure what will likely fail--the housing is just as likely as the camera to fail and become unusable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Also, if your new housing is made by the same company as your last housing, chances are some of the parts are the same or atleast compatible. Your backup housing can be come like a complete array spare-parts.

[MikeVeitch 0]

I don't have a backup...

But that is simply cuz i am cheap....

Hell, i just ordered a second memory card, i only have one!!

 

Considering getting another body though, D70 droppin in price even as we speak....

 

But i would rather go on holiday for two weeks in May instead..

[wchen 1]

Great post.

 

I'm the Murphy's Law guy. A few weeks ago, I flooded my 20D on the first dive of 9 days of diving. My backup camera saved the trip. Imagine that, paranoia paid off

 

One thing to note is that you should pack a set of micro screwdrivers with your kit if you want to attempt any surgery on your electronics. Hardware stores might not be accessible.

 

I'm rethinking the backup situation now. I'm leaning towards the camp of full redundancy with a high quality point and shoot rig. Something like an Oly 8080 or Coolpix 8400. The alternative is to get a used rig which I'm not into. I would be more inclined to carry a complete small rig as carry on and lose maybe 10 pounds from my shoulders, and checkin the big and heavy stuff. (Cathay weighed my carryon backpacks and they came out to about 20 kilos. No wonder I'm usually limping and hunched over at the end of a trip.)

 

Anybody here also looking at this approach? what rigs are you looking at or suggest? I'm heading to Sipadan/Mabul in July and want to get something tested and understood before then.

[Jolly 3]

The main reason for me to have a second body is the oportunity to make some surface shoots while on diving trips .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I second that. If you do both, topside and uw shooting, it’s a real pleasure to just shoot topside if you want without opening the housing many times during. To have a backup is nice for me too. Got a second 10D for half of the price I’ve paid for the first one. So it was a no brainer to get a second body. But I won’t buy a second 5D now.

 

Julian

[cor 0]

My wife and I both use a D2x in a Subal housing. We have a backup D2x that doubles as a land camera. Like others, our primary goal on trips (mostly liveaboards) is photography, so a flooded d2x and/or housing would just put a bit of a damper on the thing.

 

I have a field repair kit from subal that will replace any electronic part in the housing in case it floods.

 

I feel pretty confident a full flood wont happen. but both my wife and I have had a minor (few drops) leak with the D2x, which is kind of interesting as neither of us ever leaked our F100/Subal or D100/Subal, or even our 3 Nikonos cameras.

 

Im much more worried about flooded strobes, so we always bring 2 spare strobes.

 

Cor

[Rocha 0]

I have a field repair kit from subal that will replace any electronic part in the housing in case it floods.

 

I feel pretty confident a full flood wont happen. but both my wife and I have had a minor (few drops) leak with the D2x, which is kind of interesting as neither of us ever leaked our F100/Subal or D100/Subal, or even our 3 Nikonos cameras.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ryan, Dave, do you sell this Subal repair kit?

 

Cor, I never had any drops in my housing. Where do you see the drops? Inside the housing or over the camera? When I open the housing, water (from the back cover) usually drops on the back of the camera (good that it is sealed).

 

Luiz

[cor 0]

Luiz, I should have said 'im supposed to have the field repair kit' . It's on backorder. Backscatter told me Subal sells em, and Subal should be shipping one to my house. I already paid for it. As far as I understand it's got a bulkhead, wires, electronics, etc.

 

We've had 2 actual leaks. Julie once had the leak detector go off inside the pre-dive fresh water bucket. We couldnt detect a problem, but it was most likely the main o-ring.

 

Mine was a bit strange. At the end of an hour+ dive, my leak detector started blinking. I knew it couldnt be a bad flood at the end of the dive, so I just surfaced normally, and when I took it apart there was 1 drop exactly on the leak detector. This may have actually fallen in someplace before the dive and then find its way to the detector.

 

It's just kind of funny that we've never had any leak ever, and now we both had 1 (small) leak within a month of using the d2x. Maybe we've become sloppy

 

Cor