Seacam 250 digital strobe any feedback?

[3@5 0]

i was just wondering if anyone out there has had the opportunity to use the new seacam 250 digital ttl strobes yet, either the ittl or (preferably) the ettl2 version?

 

if so would you have any comments/feedback/opinion?

 

thanks in advance for the input

 

/paul

[kriptap 0]

I've been looking at these to, but they are very expensive and I'd like some feed back to or I'll end up buying one!

[3@5 0]

i'd like to hear some feedback as well.

i am really surprised no one on the board has had the opportunity of trying them out yet.

oh well let's wait and see, we might have a nice surprise soon.

/paul

[cronix 0]

I have two of these strobes. They are just great. TTL works very well with two strobes on my d2x.

FOr wide angle I still use manual.

[Bandula 0]

I have 2 of those strobes. Unfortunately it took me a while until I had all my equipment together in one place. Now I am back at the Red Sea and looking forward to take the strobes for their maiden dive in the weekend.

I used two Seaflash 100, but was a bit weak sometimes and I wanted to try iTTL.

So I changed to the new 250's digital.

If you have 2 strobes, you need your housing to be modified with a controller!

 

Features: (2 strobes)

Seperate syncro and charging sockets

2 different color temperatures by 2 selectable flash tubes (for film)

LED to indicate charge level in %

Power LED Pilot light in 3 steps and with good focus

Pilot light auto off when camera switches to standby, auto on when camera wake up.

Pilot light is possible to set in auto mode. Will open automatically if AF needs assist light, but only with camera setting AF-S.

Full ittl with two strobes.

If one strobe is operated, the second takes over the setting automatically.

e.g. Both in TTL mode --> switch one strobe to manual -3f, --> Both use the same manual setting!

In TTL mode, the used power is indicated for 2 sec. after each flash. This allows you to select the perfect manual power in case you are not satisfied with the result.

 

I tried the functions here in my cabin only because had no opportunity to dive.

Everything seems nice. I will let you know the performance after a few dives.

 

@CRONIX: How do you handle your equipment on land and in the boat. Its so bulky and heavy. The links/brakes are not really strong enough to keep the position of the strobes when not in the water. I am trying to fold and store the whole things and find a comfortable and safe way to carry it. Seems to be very difficult. May you please help me!!! (L=250, D= 110-120, 2100g!)

 

Cheers Thilo

[3@5 0]

thanks for the feedback guys,

 

bandula, looking forward to hearing your comments once you manage to get them wet

 

/paul

[cronix 0]

Thilo,

 

Yes it's very very heavy. Especially with the superdome and the 12-24. I have a very thick rope from handle to handle. That way I can hang the camera around my neck underwater. Topside that's too heavy. But I need this because I have to manage my rebreather also.

I use TLC strobe arms. I turn the rope around the clamps of the TLS arms; back and forth. That makes the rope shorter; the rope can then be used to carry the camera.

 

Is that clear? Or do you need a picture of it?

 

Regards,

Andre

[kriptap 0]

What do you mean:

 

"If you have 2 strobes, you need your housing to be modified with a controller!"

 

Thanks.

[Bandula 0]

Hello,

@Kriptap: 2 strobes "Seaflash 250digital" should be connected using the S-N DDSC, (Seacam-Nikon Digital Dual Strobe Connector).

This circuit, placed inside the housing requires a 6 pin connector on the main flash socket and allows to operate both flashes in iTTL mode or manual mode, having the benefit of the featuers I described earlier.

One strobe is connected as slave and should always stay in auto-mode. The master controls both strobes. If switched to manual, the slave takes over the setting autmatically.

2 strobes parallel connected using all 5 wires without S-N DDSC doesn't work at all!

 

I had my first dive with the new strobes yesterday. They absolutely fullfilled my demands and I am very happy with them. At first I thought the iTTL would easily overexpose because the camera monitor was indicating lights quite often.

Back onboard, using a normal screen I found everyting exposed very well.

60mm 1/60 @f16, iTTL

 

Cronix, a picture would be fine. I am now using the seacam foldable carrying handle. This is mounted into the top screw socket. I fold the strobes down to the middle and let them rest on the outer edges of the handle. So my hand still fits in the middle to grab the handle. It is still heavy, but quite comfortable and safe. If I have to walk more than 50m, I wish I had a trolley :-)

 

Cheers Thilo

[aytur 0]

I have two Seacam 250 strobes. These are connected to my Seacam D2X housing via Seacams special 6-wire sync chords. My housing had to be fitted with special bulkhead connectors that accept these 6-wire sync chords. The converter electronics was also installed at the same time.

 

This configuration allows true i-TTL operation with two strobes.

 

For two strobe i-TTL operation, you set both strobes to "TTL". When you press the shutter, there is a preflash for both strobes. The main flash follows the preflash. The two strobes put out equal amounts of light. If you need to have unequal lighting, you need the change the relative strobe-to-subject distance.

 

Technically speaking, in this mode of operation the two strobes act as one. I suspect the sixth wire lets the two strobes talk to each other. Actually, one strobe is the "master" strobe, and communicates with the camera via the i-TTL converter circuitry. The second strobe is controlled by the master strobe, and essentially mimics everything that the master strobe does, including preflash output. If you want to take a photograph with a single strobe, you have to turn off the second strobe, not the master strobe. (I am deliberately not using the word "slave" here to avoid confusion.) Otherwise, the shutter is disabled.

 

The exposures in this configuration (two strobe i-TTL) are usually right on. I am very pleased with the results most of the time. There is one major problem though: On-camera exposure compensation does not work! According to Seacam, these strobes are supposed to be fully i-TTL compatible and pretty much supposed to act like a single SB-800, electronically speaking. "Slow" and "rear curtain sync" etc all work beautifully. But not exposure compensation. This is truly baffling. When I shoot a relatively small subject with an open water background, the picture is understandably overexposed. Dialing in negative exposure compensation on the camera has absolutely no effect! I suspect this is a firmware bug, but have not been able to get an answer from Seacam.

 

The Seacam 250 is an excellent strobe. I am going to point at a few weaknesses though:

 

The batteries cannot be replaced. This means you cannot recharge spare batteries while you are diving. You have to charge the strobes directly. The batteries usually last 2 or 3 dives. Still, if you are doing 4 dives a day, you may have to do a little bit of advance planning as to when you will recharge your strobes.

 

The recycle times are long. My Ikelite SS-200 and Sea&Sea YS-120 with NiMH batteries recycle under 2 seconds. Seacam 250's cannot keep up with fast action.

 

They are heavy and bulky. Very heavy and bulky in fact.

 

The six-wire connector is incompatible with the rest of the world. I cannot use any other strobe as backup. If your strobes fail in the middle of a long live-aboard trip, you are stuck.

 

OK, on the positive side, the wide angle coverage is amazing. There are protective rings around the reflector that limit the angle of coverage. These are very useful since the glass part sticks out quite a bit and if you are careless like me you can very easily crack your strobe! The protective rings slide out easily and the true potential of the strobes are realized! But be careful.

 

There are two different bulbs with different color temperatures. I find this mildly useful since the difference can easily be corrected with white balance.

 

Cheers,

 

- orhan aytur

[3@5 0]

thanks for all that great info and feedback.

 

one thing to point out on the S6 connectors:

The six-wire connector is incompatible with the rest of the world. I cannot use any other strobe as backup. If your strobes fail in the middle of a long live-aboard trip, you are stuck.

i have S6 connections on my seacam housing but I use inon strobes, so I had seacam create S6 to Inon synch cords (basically I used the ports of my old synch cords and seacam connected them to their S6 cable). this way i can use i am not stuck with S6 only strobes should one fail.

[cronix 0]

The extra circuit in the housing is no limitation to use any other strobe. It's just to make sure that you can use iTTL with two strobes without loosing any functionality.

 

The N6 plug is in my optionion GREAT. It's very robust any much better than the old Nikonos plug. Seacam can deliver N6 to Nikonos (old 5 pin) cables. I have them so I can still use my SB-800 in a Subal housing. But I don't use the SB-800 anymore; it's my spare strobe.

 

Aytur was right; exposrue compensation doesn't work on my set also. I already experienced this in Mozambique while taking pictures of harlequin shrimps.

 

I just received an email from Seacam; the exposure compensation problem is fixed. They will upgrade the software of the strobe.

 

And there you have the main advantage of this strobe. To my knowledge this is the only digital underwater strobe. Almost any problem can be fixed by just upgrading the software.

 

I will keep you posted about the exposure compensation as soon as my strobes are upgraded.

[fras 0]

Do you know what is the seacam's electronic?

I think subtronic uses the Heinrichs-Weikamp i-ttl converter

but I don't know anything about seacam's.

 

May be different. Is true i-ttl or a emulation like Heinrichs converter?

 

Best

[cronix 0]

I have had many discussions about the strobe with Harld Hordosch from Seacam.

 

The electronics are NOT from subtronic. Let's hope that makes them more reliable.

 

Seacam has developed completely new electronics together with an Italian company. I have seen the inside of the strobes. They are really high quality electronics; no home made circuitry inside.

About the batteries. Yes you cannot switch them between dives. But it's not that hard to put a new one in. It''s possible. You can do that when you are on that far away trip and the battery breaks down.

 

The electronics are 100% digital and reprogrammable. You see that now there is a bug with the exposure compensation. You just need an upgrade of the software and it wil work.

This is (hopefully) the same when Nikon (of canon) ever decide to create a new TTL signal. Reprogramming the strobe should make them work with new signals in the future.

 

So seacam has reverse engineered the iTTL and eTTL signal and reprogrammed it in the strobe.

 

I truly believe in these strobes. I have taken them to Mexico, Mozambique and Antarctica in a very short time frame. I won the wide angle category at Celebrate the Sea with these strobes. They are expensive, heavy, but amazing.

[davichin 18]

I have had many discussions about the strobe with Harld Hordosch from Seacam.

 

The electronics are NOT from subtronic. Let's hope that makes them more reliable.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

From Seacam´s web:

 

"First-class electronics

 

The sophisticated and proven first-class electronics, are supplied by SUBTRONIC Germany."

 

 

Another thing: is it possible to use true ittl with this strobe and another housing? or does it need the inside Seacam housing circuitry to work?

[Paul Kay 51]

"First-class electronics - The sophisticated and proven first-class electronics, are supplied by SUBTRONIC Germany."

 

This is outdated! The 250 is built by Seacam and does not have Subtronic electronics inside.

[Bandula 0]

It seems to me that this part of the webpage is not uptodate.

The 250 TTL Digital has no Subtronic parts anymore.

As far as I know some other Seaflash models are having Subtronic parts inside.

 

To my best knowledge: You may use one 250 in iTTL with Nikonos V connectors.

If you want to use iTTL with two 250's at the same time you'll need S6 connectors and the S-N DDSC inside your housing.

 

For more reliable information you should contact seacam: office@seacam.com

[Alex_Mustard 0]

Hopefully the Seacam website can be updated as easily as the strobe circuitry. ;-)

 

Glad to hear that these strobes are performing well. They are a bit out of my price range, but they sound fantastic.

 

Alex

[cronix 0]

I was late sending my strobes back to Seacam. But I got them back today (after only 2 weeks, sorry Alex).

 

Exposure compensation is now working perfectly. I tested TTL with +/- exposure compensation with both 250TTL strobes wired together without any problems. For this I have the special electronics in the housing.

 

That electronics gives you no limit to use other strobes. I have used my sb800 the last two weeks without any problems.

[Ychng 0]

Hi guys,

 

I've been reading this thread with great interest. Thanks to all who've contributed valuable info. I've been looking around for a more powerful solution than my current Inon Z220's, and am very interested in the Seacam 250TTLs.

However, I am concerned to hear that recycle time was an issue for Ortan as he mentioned above. Cronix, what are your impressions as to recycle time on these strobes during normal use? And after a full dump?

 

I do realize that full dump recycle times are usually deceptive as most of the time, esp with such a powerful strobe, we are not using a full dump - so if someone can give an estimate of recycle times on typical wide angle shots with sunballs, that would be great!

 

Thanks a lot,

Yeang

[cronix 0]

Hi guys,

 

I've been reading this thread with great interest. Thanks to all who've contributed valuable info. I've been looking around for a more powerful solution than my current Inon Z220's, and am very interested in the Seacam 250TTLs.

However, I am concerned to hear that recycle time was an issue for Ortan as he mentioned above. Cronix, what are your impressions as to recycle time on these strobes during normal use? And after a full dump?

 

I do realize that full dump recycle times are usually deceptive as most of the time, esp with such a powerful strobe, we are not using a full dump - so if someone can give an estimate of recycle times on typical wide angle shots with sunballs, that would be great!

 

Thanks a lot,

Yeang

 

Recycle time is the only drawback. It's still the very best thing on the market. Where else do you find TTL with two strobes on a wire? Or a slave that is 100% controlled by the master (slave on A, master on any manual setting)

Full power takes at least 4 sec to charge. 1/2 and 1/4 are very workable IMHO. But faster would be nice.

[Ychng 0]

Hi Cronix,

 

Thanks a lot for confirming the kind of slow recycle time. Yes, I agree all in all it looks like one of the best options in the market. If they reduced the recycle time and made the batteries removable I'd be placing my order today!

 

Yeang

[buddy 7]

check subtronic's nova. there you match all the criterias...2x ttl, removable batteries, power 250 Ws, max. recycle time 2.5 sec....what do you want more?

[cronix 0]

check subtronic's nova. there you match all the criterias...2x ttl, removable batteries, power 250 Ws, max. recycle time 2.5 sec....what do you want more?

 

Well, I do know what I don't want. And that is the service Alex is having from Subtronics.

 

By the way; do the Nova's have two bulbs?