Ocean Realm Journal

[lmarsh 0]

Hi, I just registered to this forum. Eric kindly sent Ocean Realm the link to the thread on my request for photos. I sent him a reply and asked that he post it, but then I decided to register and post it myself. Below is a copy of the Email I sent to Eric:

 

My heart is racing with amazement and hurt. My intensions were purely honorable and now I wish I had not tried to promote this. Below is my response, could you please post it for me.

 

As for all the comments on our profits, we have yet to see a profit! All of us work gratis, earning income from other jobs. Publishing a magazine of this quality is extremely expensive, but those that help us are doing so because they believe in, and love Mother Nature and all she has to offer. We are not Scuba Diver Magazine or National Geographic, but aspire one day to be that big and profitable - and when we are we will accept and provide payment, until then I am honored to work gratis as I believe in the mission of OR.

 

 

Greetings Wetpexil Members

 

This is Linda Marshall from Ocean Realm.

I am hurt by all this negative publicity; I thought I was doing a good thing by offering to promote NEW talent. My intensions were only to help people get published and hopefully launch some careers. As with many careers there is the cart before the horse syndrome, companies want people with experience, yet how do you get experience if no one gives you a chance? We are trying to help our subscribers, as I consider ALL subscribers part of the OR family.

The publisher Mr. Stewart is aware of the responses this has created and will probably write a response also.

In closing, I am personally dedicated to all our subscribers and write them personally when I receive a new subscription or email from them. We are a family of like minded people who love the earth and all its beauty.

 

 

Respectfully,

Linda Marshall

Member Relations

Ocean Realm Journal

www.oceanrealmjournal.com

linda@oceanrealmjournal.com

[ce4jesus 1]

So you must distinguish yourself and build your value by other means.

 

Since my job is selling the value in some of my companies higher priced products and services, I relate to this statement very well. It is tough to sell a product or service that is of higher quality when the market is flooded with lower priced competitors who seek to blur the lines of quality. The difference needs to be stated, emphasized and marketed.

1. Don't give cookies to bears" - free cookies are fine until you run out of cookies.

 

2. People buy on relationships - Marketing yourself to people will endear your product to them. This probably explains quite a bit when you look in a Scuba Magazine and find sub-standard work that has been published.

3. Find something that distinguishes you from the pack - This can be a number of things from reputation, commitment, quality, access etc. You might have the greatest portfolio on Earth but if no one knows about you, or your a bear to work with, or they can only access you on the 2nd Friday after a full moon, you'll lose out to a lesser competitor. In the end marketing rules.

 

Regards,

Gary

[Kelpfish 15]

Hi Linda,

 

When you start turning a profit, do you intend to continue to use and pay these new gratis contributors? Allow them to learn the art of writing articles? Or is it your intention to keep publishing gratis pics from more and more up-and-comers as they develop, hindering previous gratis contributors’ ability to "learn" what it takes to be a real contributor such as an article author? As you know, writing an article is more than jumping into Word and writing, it's research, writing to an audience, good grammar, pulling in the reader, captioning photos, getting someone to proof, etc. When I produced my book, the real experience came from all that I listed above and more. Due to that experience, I am considered a subject matter expert and now am asked to do a lot of other things such as speaking engagements and other promotional opportunities. Based on this experience, it’s my humble opinion (which may not mean much to many on Wetpixel) that offering someone a chance to promote a career in underwater photography is better suited if they ultimately write and become an article author. That lends far more credibility to an aspiring photographer than just them emailing pictures to your email account. These are the opportunities I would want to have if I contributed for free. THEN I have some copy I can send to other magazines showing them my capabilities and publishing history. I can't tell you how many times I have been asked to send copies of other articles to editors to verify my work and allow them to see my writing style. Of course that style generally falls under each magazines writers guidelines, and that is what we should follow in as much as possible. This is yet another reason why writing opportunities are important because it shows that the writer can follow rules, or writer’s guidelines.

 

So the question I really have is to what degree are you willing to go to promote new, aspiring photographers? I will say that I would not send in photos gratis because tiny superscript photo credits don’t lead much credibility to a future. Understand fully that this is how one gets started, but if I was given an opportunity to write for the magazine and also contribute my images, I would be far more willing to do that since my resume would now encompass real writing contributions that I could place on my resume for other magazines. THAT TO ME is offering a real chance to launch careers.

 

I do enjoy OR and the magazine is well done. Keep up the good work. I just think you need to be clearer on "launching careersâ€.

 

Thank you

 

Joe

[Pedda 0]

My sister is the editor-in-chief of the biggest bridal magazine here in Scandinavia and her magazine doesn’t pay for pictures or photographers. The photographers they work with usually stay with them for a year, and after that year of exposure in the magazine the majority of them have a solid and good paid career as a professional photographer.

 

During the time they work for the bridal magazine they still of course have the right to take other assignments.

 

The reason why I said No to Swiss Air was the way they approached me and the amount of pictures they wanted for free. Plus I thought that a major multinational company could afford to pay a small amount of money for the pictures.

 

Regards

 

Peter

[Alex_Mustard 0]

As a general comment, I feel that the multitude of photographic competitions about these days are the perfect vehicle to generate exposure for the talents of undiscovered underwater photographers.

 

The biggest ones certainly get your work noticed by all the magazines.

 

Alex

[lmarsh 0]

Thank you for all your comments. With your support and faith, I believe Ocean Realm will one day be one of the most respected and sought after Ocean Adventure publications around. When that day comes I would love nothing more than to spread the wealth, until then I will continue to eat canned soup so that I can put my efforts into producing something worth while.

 

By the way, new editions were mailed out last week and I am looking forward to your opinions.

 

Regards,

Linda

[bvanant 189]

Dr. Alex:

While it is probably true that major competitions are a good way for novice photogs to get some exposure there might be lots of reasons for folk to still send pics to OR. For one, I think that there are some people who don't like to enter competitions for many reasons. Second, most of the pics in the big scuba and travel magazines are not close to competition winning or even placing photos and I think that most magazine editors (I could be totally wrong here), don't get to see all of the pics that are in a competition, only the winners. Thirdly and I think the most compelling thing about the OR request is that you could conceivably both write some text and link it to some photos. While this might not be everyones cup of tea so to speak, it might be for some folks. Occasionally, I submit an article about a really good restaurant far away from home for the local (very local) paper. Not for money, but just to share a neat experience. People's motivations vary a lot, and I firmly believe that if the "professional" guys pictures are so much better than the "amateur" guys stuff then the pros will win out (assuming of course that the buyers are motivated by "good" stuff not just by cheap. That argument can obviously become tautological so I should stop here.

BVA

[Alex_Mustard 0]

Hi Bill,

 

I was just making a general point, and if you read what I said - you will actually see that I didn't say that people shouldn't consider submitting to OR. At the moment many of my images are being reproduced for free in book reviews and features about The Art Of Diving - in various magazines. I will happily allow images to be reproduced for free when it serves my needs.

 

Also I don't get paid for quite a few of the interviews I do. For example the one on Rob Galbraith I did for free.

 

But I think there is a difference from these advertorial articles (promoting a product or your photography) and writing general features for free. Personally I think that OR should offer a payment - but at a low rate that they can afford. Then contributors can choose whether they are. And it avoids the precident of devaluing UW images.

 

Regarding the general point of magazines and image quality - magazines first and foremost want reliable contributors - who will deliver them images and text ON TIME in the style and quality they like. Many underwater photographers look at diving magazines saying my shots are as good as those - but usually the pros who have long publication records are the ones who are efficient and have good working relationships with the publishers (not necessarily the best pix). Magazines have strict dealines and there are lots of photographers who get their images published once or twice and then spoil a relationship by taking this for granted. Speak to any editor and they will always be annoyed at some photographer who has let them down recently!

 

Competitions work well - but generally the magazines don't pay too much attention to the amateur only ones. It is only the comps that allow pros to enter and have the highest profile (such as the Antibes Festival, Wildlife Photographer, Nature's Best etc) that really get their attention. Or, of course, competitions run by a specific magazine.

 

Alex

[Marjo 8]

As I started this thread I feel compelled to reply.

 

First of all, this is another example of how fantastic a resource Wetpixel is to us underwater photographers. It appears that whenever you have a concern or topic to discuss, a lively debate is in store and, oftentimes, the industry will repond. This has lead to many positive outcomes, such as new products, improvements in gear or, as in this case, just healthy debate and awareness. I am a bit sad to read that this debate would have lead to someone being "hurt by all this negative publicity". IMHO this is a great forum where the related industry has an excellent opportunity to keep a finger on the pulse of the market and listen in on the what their consumers really think. From a marketing standpoint that is invaluable information. Trying to sell anything, whether it be your photographs to magazines or magazines to underwater photographers or anything else, all comes down to satifying your "customers" needs and the only way to do that is to find out what their needs are. If I were an editor, I would see this as a great benefit.

 

Now, we all make our individual decisions. We submit photographs for free or we sell them for monetary compensation. We choose to work for others or we go into business for ourselves with the hopes of someday making some return. We might eat soup for a while, and if things go our way, we can have some steaks in the future... We post our opinions on boards or keep them to ourselves. We send e-mails and mass mailings and choose a message to broadcast. Anything we do in life, privately or as part of our professional roles, any choises we make, have consequences or effects. They might not always be ones we expect. Not everyone will agree with our opinions. We can't please everyone that we ever interact with. However what matters is what we in turn do with the feedback we get. Like a good friend of mine likes to say "I can't change the way the wind blows, but I can adjust my sails to accomplish my goal".

 

As for the staff of ORJ working for free and eating canned soup... we'll, I hope that one day their dreams will all come true and that the magazine "will one day be one of the most respected and sought after Ocean Adventure publications around". Absolutely, I hope so too! There aren't enough of such publications around, and I for one put in a subscription, hoping for such a product to plop into my mailbox.

 

However, the question of the value of images, copy and other creative work, is one that has been lively debated, not only here on Wetpixel, but also in many other forums and media. This is an issue much bigger than just wheter we should give free images to OJR so that they can one day be "one of the most respected and sought after Ocean Adventure publications around". This is all about the future of the percieved value of image/photography. If the issue matters to us, then each of us (both photographers and different media) needs to make a personal decision on the question "Is it reasonable for for-profit media to ask for free photographs"?

 

Linda, I am sorry if you feel hurt about the debate, however, I hope that you will see that all of the replies in this thread, are valuable inforamtion to you and your magazine. I am sure your choise to send you e-mail to your subscribers requesting contributions and mentioning that they would be "gratis" and compensated by free magazines, was not meant in any bad way at all. However, as you have by now discoevered, the question of giving away free images and whether it is OK for magazines to ask for such, is a bit touchy and is and has been frequently and lively debated. Some of us feel that by giving away images (or other intellectual material) they might gain some benefits. Others feel that such actions and requests undercuts the true value of the work and in extension deteriorates the possibilities of both seeing quality work in media as well as the possibility to making a living in this business in the future. So, when you do send out requests for "gratis" material to a market that at least to some part consists of underwater photographers , be it to showcast "new talents" or otherwise, you will inevitably be getting feedback from a few individuals that have pondered this topic and that might have strong opinions on the matter.

 

Personally, I wish your magazine will be very successful. I also wish that your magazine will be a medium for both new and old talent to channel images to the market. I also hope that your product will be of such high quality and so attractive to the market, that you will be able to provide your contributors with a fair compensation and in doing so you will strengten the percieved value of underwater images and the gazillions of hours spent by photographers to create those truly amazing and spectacular images that consumers like me are hungring for!

 

Warmest regards,

 

Marjo Aho

Subscriber of ORJ and also underwater photography enthusiast

[lmarsh 0]

Thank you for that email. I have enjoyed reading all the threads and you are right, it has been a wonderful way for me to communicate and understand a specific segment of our consumers.

 

I am not a photographer, myself, so my place here is only to observe activity related to the Journal. I find all these comments invaluable and I love the saying your friend mentioned about not being able to control the wind, but controlling how one relates to it.

 

Namaste

Linda

[oceanrealm 0]

A Response from the Publisher of Ocean Realm

 

Greetings all who partake in this lively discussion.

 

I completely understand the point of view some of you have about being paid for your work. No one is suggesting that you don’t get paid for your creative efforts considering the investment of time and money necessary to say competitive.

 

Linda’s call for submissions was an effort to give our Ocean Realm family an opportunity to receive a little bit of exposure and credibility by being published in the Ocean Realm Journal. She was not prepared to be slammed by the few who took her invite the wrong context.

 

It is true we are not paying for pictures or articles at this point but this is not because we do not believe these contributions to be of value. On the contrary, these contributions make Ocean Realm, not visa versa. As a start up we simply do not have the funds to pay for materials and therefore are not able to offer payment at this point.

 

For those of you who believe we are raking in the cash publishing Ocean Realm I suggest you take a copy of OR to your local printer and see for yourself what the costs are. As Linda said, this is a passion for our three-person team and we will eat canned soup as long as we need to in order to keep Ocean Realm alive. For now we are forgoing profit for passion and feel great doing so in the process.

 

A number of you recognize the true value of being featured in a publication such as Ocean Realm. You have to look beyond the “no pay†issue and realize that the publication is a platform to either launch a career or further it.

 

In 1976 I created and published Sport Diver magazine. This magazine had a profound impact on the industry that we today call “Sport Diving.†When I first decided to go up again the giant Skin Diver magazine, I struggled to get the likes of Jack McKinney, Carl Rosseler and others of the day to provide me with pictures. There were two problems though; they wanted to get paid and they were in Paul T’s back pocket.

 

I had started Sport Diver as a frustrated photographer. I had received rejection after rejection from Paul. Years later when he and I became friend’s I asked why my pictures, as good as most others, kept getting rejected. His reply was that I was not in the pecking order; another words, the good old boys club got first shot at the placements and assignments.

 

So my reasons for becoming a publisher were personal but I took with me the experience I had and promised I would never deny great talent an opportunity to be published.

 

One day I received a call from a photographer in Colorado. We had a nice chat. He told be he was moving to Florida to become an underwater photographer and would I be interested in publishing his work. I admit I wondered how a guy from the mountains could decide to become an underwater photographer and immediately expect to be published. I told him the door was open and to send me pictures. That person was Stephen Frink and the rest is history. During my 30 years as a publisher and publishing director in the diving industry (Florida Diver, Sport Diver, Ocean Realm and Dive Travel) I was instrumental in furthering the careers of many of today’s established image makers; Rick Frehsee, Greg Johnston, Mart Snyderman, Fred Bavendam and the list goes on and on.

 

My point in going this far with these “to pay or not to pay†discussions is; sometimes there are things in life that provide a greater return than just money. Most of the people I have mention are making a wonderful living from projects that we all dream about doing. A few are actually making a living from publications but more important, their published work keeps them at the forefront of the job market.

 

Today, Ocean Realm exists because Linda, Ken and I refuse to let go with the dream of having a publication that is not only visually exciting and content rich but, having a publication that furthers our desire to promote the “Respect and Protect†the ocean mandate that we have chosen.

 

The Journal is called “Ocean Realm, not Richard’s Realm†and I would be remiss if I did not take this opportunity to thank everyone that has made it possible for us to get Ocean Realm to the market. These are the people that make Ocean Realm (Bruce Watkins, Jo Jo Guevarra, Maricio Handler, Dominick Macan, Yvette Lee, Jacques Marion, Donald Tipton, Claudia Pellarini, Leon Joubert, Linda Stein, Debbie Moroney, Stephi Schwabe, Greg Johnston, Dawn Cronin, Ggayle Lawrence, Patrick Chevailler, Dick Wisshack, Beverly Factor, Michael Portelly and Wolfgang Leander.

 

There was a question as to our corporate status. We are dedicated to education and the protection of the ocean and although we are a for profit company, we operate like a non profit devoting much of our resources to conservation and education….especially for kids. Although we considered turning the society to a non profit status, we see very little benefits in doing so. Even a non profit organization is charged with the task of being profitable but, since our aspirations go well beyond a publication and will need future investment opportunities we will remain a for profit company.

 

Our society is a community of like minded people. A love for the ocean and an itch for adventure. Since we all derive something from the ocean we should all give back however we can. Our way is in the form of education and entertainment.

 

So in my closing comments I would like to thank all of those who are supporting our efforts as a member subscriber, I would like to apologize to anyone who took offence to our invitation and I would like everyone to know that our door is always open to new and established artists that may wish to join the Ocean Realm creative team.

 

Safe diving and happy shooting,

 

Richard H. Stewart

Publisher / Editor-in-Chief

www.OceanRealmJournal.com

www.RichardHStewart.com

 

A Parting thought-

 

“Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.

 

Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.

 

Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.

 

Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.â€

 

- CALVIN COOLIDGE