Strobe Arm Length?

[famorim 0]

Hi James,

Yes, but I'm usually don't move too much the strobes, some times move only the strobe head and not all arm set leaving the spotting light at the same position, when it is necessary I fix the light adapter on the handle adapter BA-AQW and it does the same when mounted on top of the housing.

 

thank you. Fabio

[Dan Burton 0]

I still use the Ys120's on my d2x, and they have never gone wrong.

Touch wood..... the Sea & sea stobes have NEVER gone wrong since 1991!

 

 

Dan

 

I used 2 x 12 arms on both sides for wide-angle for years, but I'm shifting to 2 x 8. For me, the change is mostly driven by my shift to different strobes.

 

I used to use two powerful Ikelite SS200s with wide 100 degree beams. At full power and the right ambient light levels, those strobes will work at distances over 2.5 meter/8 feet for subjects like manta rays and some reefscapes. (The exposure guide on the back of the strobes implies that these strobes will work at 3 meters/10 feet at ISO 100 and f/4.0, though I don't think I ever achieved quite that distance). Anyway, at 8-10 feet, to avoid illuminating crap in the water between the lens and subject with those strobes and their wide 100 degree beams, I really did need more strobe separation than is possible with 8" arm sections. When it all comes together with a wide angle lens and very powerful strobes, longer arms can make it possible to turn medium-vis water into gin (Absolut vodka, whatever).

 

My SS200s have never gone more than a year without one of them malfunctioning or dying. When they came back from their last trip to Ohio and back (with a $400+ repair bill receipt attached) eight months ago, one was already dead right out of the box full of foam peanuts before I could even take it on a dive. Living in Indonesia, hassling with equipment that I can't rely on is no longer worth it for me.

 

(So - anybody want to buy a couple of powerful strobes, cheap? Honesty requires me to say that I think both of them are absolute lemons, but they are wonderful strobes on those occasions when they are both working. If you live in the US, maybe the breakdown frequency won't matter. Make me an offer.)

 

My Inon D200s Sea&Sea YS90DXs don't have anything like the power or spread of the SS200s, but they work, and so far they have kept on working, dive trip after dive trip. (The Inons are pretty new, so that isn't so impressive, but the YS90DXs - originally purchased as a temporary stopgap while my SS200s were on another visit to Ohio - have been going strong for over three years.) With reduced power and narrower beams, I can't shoot from as far away (and with the 10.5 FE on the D2X, I rarely want to anyway). The upshot of moving from Ikelite strobes to the Inons and S&Ss is that the 12 inch arm segments that at one time were central to my style of wide-angle shooting are now irrelevant. 2 x 8 works fine.

 

Frogfish (Robert Delfs)

[stewsmith 14]

i have just added another ys90 to my housing. i will be experimenting a lot over the next few weeks. i have 4 x 8" ul bouyancy arms to play around with. i havent done much photography so all the tips i read here are all taken in to be used at some time...cheers

[MRE 0]

Great thread. I'm gonna pin it. I generally use my strobes on single short arms. But then I am a bit weird.

 

Alex

 

I carn't help but get involved with this thread. I used to use huge arms, at least a meter each side of my housing. Just too long for comfort, I cut them down and down and down. I use quite short arms now, never any further than 0.5m. The test was recently in Truk. It all depends on the subject and like I have read above if you get close with a 10.5mm and it's not that big a subject the flash guns will miss. I take the view that keep them close but angled out and well behind not only the port but the housing itself when required. I used dual flash in Truk on the wrecks with my flash guns level with my face mask.

 

Martin Edge

[tdpriest 115]

It definitely works.

 

I read the old edition of "The Underwater Photographer" and thought that I was a wimp for not being able to handle mega-arms - when I added a segment to my 20" TLC arms the camera rig was all over the place, very unstable in any current and hard to move around.

 

I bought two shorter Ultralight flotation arms and used them in Bikini, with a Nikon 10.5mm, partly because of the extreme weight limitation in getting there. The results were just as good as long arms.

 

It was with great relief that I read the new edition of "The Underwater Photographer", and found Martin's change of approach!

 

Long arms (Chuuk), strobes parallel:

 

 

Short arms (Bikini), strobes angled outwards:

 

 

The visibility on both trips was not the best, with significant plankton, so I think that the images are a good test of arm performance.

 

Tim

 

B)

[jeremypayne 0]

Thanks to all who've shared on this thread, but I'd like to re-open the discussion from the perspective of a point and shoot camera and strictly with respect to backscatter.

 

I have a G9 that I'll be using in an Ikelite housing with a wide-angle adapter. The widest the camera lens goes is 35MM (film equiv). The adapter is a .56x converter and you need to zoom a little. I guess that's about like having a 23MM (film equiv) behind a flat port ... but my understanding of optics - let alone underwater optics - is poor at best.

 

Coming off the Ikelite handles - on each side - I have 2 x 6" with 3" strobe arms.

 

Here's a pic:

 

I've tested the "coverage" by shooting a white wall in a pitch black room from various distances with the adapter on the housing. With the strobes level, back a bit and angled out I get what seems like very nice coverage.

 

I was happy and ready to take this underwater to start learning to shoot wide-angle ... until ...

 

I'm going to Cathy Church's school in June ... and she and her staff have said that I should really be using longer arms to avoid backscatter.

 

What are people's thoughts? I have plenty of time to get 8" (or longer) segments to replace one of the 6" arms on each side before I leave.

 

Here’s one other concern … my YS-27 is an optical slave. My current arms set allows me to run the optic-fibre sync cord I have from the YS-110 to the YS-27 … but I’m worried that if my arms were any longer, it would no longer reach and then I’d worry about the reliability of the second strobe … are there commerically available optical cords that fit in the S&S "jacks" that are longer? When I asked ReefPhoto, they said "no" ... but I wasn't 100% convinced the gentleman I was talking to really knew.

 

Thanks in advance!

[TheRealDrew 0]

Here’s one other concern … my YS-27 is an optical slave. My current arms set allows me to run the optic-fibre sync cord I have from the YS-110 to the YS-27 … but I’m worried that if my arms were any longer, it would no longer reach and then I’d worry about the reliability of the second strobe … are there commerically available optical cords that fit in the S&S "jacks" that are longer?

 

 

There were a couple of D.I.Y. threads where people mentioned being able to get optical cables

 

Here is an interesting variation

 

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showt...;hl=optic+cable

 

And there was another one where it was mentioned where to get lengths of optic cable, but could not find the post...

[jeremypayne 0]

Sweet! Thanks Drew. The little Fantasea 'terminating' adapters also explicitly fit the S&S 'holders' ... so if I can figure out how to properly slice up the audio cable so it will work with those things, I can have one as long as I want ... if I have to do it, I think I can pull it off ...

 

... Does anyone have any thoughts on whether I'll be sorry if I don't get longer arms?

 

To re-phrase my question ... on each side of my Ikelite G9 housing I have 6"x6"x3" arms. I have been told that I would be "better off" with longer arms to avoid backscatter on wide-angle shots.

 

Any opinions?

[jugglematt 0]

... Does anyone have any thoughts on whether I'll be sorry if I don't get longer arms?

 

To re-phrase my question ... on each side of my Ikelite G9 housing I have 6"x6"x3" arms. I have been told that I would be "better off" with longer arms to avoid backscatter on wide-angle shots.

 

Any opinions?

 

Hey All

good thread , im reading and enjoying ,

a question to jeremypayne(nice looking setup by the way) have you put your wide angle setup in the water and played with it yet ?

i use a similar setup with the ike housing nikon p5000 inon uwl100 and dome attachment, i use inon strobes and a similar baseplate with arms , i usually use just one 5" ULCS arm on each side and if im really motivated i use a 5" and 3"on each side . for wide i usually have the strobes about level with the dome port and pointing straight out , if the water is dirty i angle the strobes out away from the dome port more . i usually shoot in temprate water conditions which can be fairly snotty at times. i just keep in mind that my system just keeps on getting bigger and heavier .

 

if it was me i would suggest keep your current strobe arms and use the money towards buying a dome attachment for your inon wide lense ,

 

 

this photo was taken with just one 5" arm on either side of my baseplate handes and the strobes pointed away from my dome port, the vis was about 15m and it was fairly chunky .

 

Regards

Matt

[jeremypayne 0]

a question to jeremypayne(nice looking setup by the way) have you put your wide angle setup in the water and played with it yet ?

Thank you! I'm excited to take it for a swim, but have yet to take this setup underwater. I've used my camera in the Canon housing - but it doesn't accomodate wide adapters and that was the primary motivation to upgrade to the Ikelite.

 

if it was me i would suggest keep your current strobe arms and use the money towards buying a dome attachment for your inon wide lense

I think I'll do just that. I made a "mistake" and bought the Ikelite w/a adapter and not the INON ... but if (when) I feel the need for the dome port, I'll probably just buy the whole thing - INON UWL-100 + Dome and either keep the Ikelite around or sell it ...

 

Thanks for posting a picture. Makes me feel better. B)

[Timmoranuk 10]

Jeremy, a great idea of yours to open up this again for compact users...

 

I have photographed each of my 'standard' arm setups - G9 / Ike / ULCS.

 

The first is for clear water w/a and comprises 5" lattice and 8" bouyancy arms.

The second is for turbid water w/a and comprises 8" bouyancy and 12" bouyancy arms.

The third is for macro and medium telephoto portraits (long port) and comprises 5" lattice (c/w caddy for the UCL's) and 3" stick arms. For extra compactness, I often use YS-25's (rather than Z-240's) if I intend to shoot macro only.

 

These arms configurations tend to be a tad 'hungry' on the fibre optics! I use shortened INON slave cables on #1, full length slave cables on #2 and 40 cms 'D' cables or the new Sea & Sea cables on #3. My custom mask facilitates using these different cables, blocks the onboard strobe and provides a secure mount for the INON Cap set and S&S cables. To keep the fibre optics tidy, I cable tie fishing swivels to the arms and thread the cables through them.

[jeremyl 0]

Timmoranuk - thats a lotta focus lights! Curious as to why? So far I have just been letting my G9 focus but its not doing that well so before my next trip I will get something.

 

So I will add in as I am looking for advice as well. I have the G9 w/Ike housing and Dual Ike DS125 Deluxe kits so I use those arms. The setup is a bit heavy and unbalanced underwater so I want to improve things. Plan on upgrading to ULCS arms and maybe adding some more boyancy if needed. So What should I get? Many setups I see have at least one pretty long arm. The 125's are pretty juicy so I guess i want to keep them somewhat away. Plan to get the Inon WA lens & flat port, although I still want to do plently of macro. So do I do the 5"+8" per side that seems to be the most popular in this thread?

 

Jeremy - how did the Jim Church class go? Did you learn more and now know exactly what us G9+Ike users should be using?

 

Thanks... (The Other) Jeremy

[jeremypayne 0]

Jeremy - how did the Jim Church class go? Did you learn more and now know exactly what us G9+Ike users should be using?

Thanks... (The Other) Jeremy

I'm actually leaving on Saturday for Grand Cayman and doing three 1/2 days of instruction on Saturday, Monday and Tuesday. Will let you know how it goes!

 

I did take the Ikelite underwater for the first time this weekend in Mexico.

 

I had 5" X 8" and that seemed like more than enough arm for me. I can't imagine using something any bigger at this point ...

 

It is HEAVY, especially with the wide angle adapter on. My 8" arms are the ULCS regular bouyancy arms and it was still significantly negative. I made some foam floats, but everyone says they will get crushed at depths over 30 feet so I left them at home ... only spent $2.59 on the foam I think, so no great loss.

 

I may invest in some double-bouyancy arms as I would like it to be slightly less negative ... but I'll take stock after a week of diving.

Edited June 19, 2008 by jeremypayne

[jeremyl 0]

Cool. Let us know how it goes. You can also get Stix boyancy floats to add to the ULCS arms. Backscatter sells them. I dont have the extra wet lenses yet, but I plan to get them (or borrow them to try out) before my next trip unless I run across a cheap D70 housing before then.

[reubencahn 2]

Is there any reason for preferring two segments per side over one? Is there any reason not to use say a single 6" arm per side for macro and a single 12" per side for wide angle?

[kkgodiving 1]

A very popular setup seems to be a 5" arm connected to the housing-side, and an 8" arm on the strobe side. James

 

Is there any specific reason to have the shorter arm on the housing and the longer one on the strobe? I am going to use this set up this weekend: 12" on housing and 5" on strobe on a 10.5mm lens. Note: the 12" were new acquistion. Thx.

[tubino 1]

Is there any reason for preferring two segments per side over one? Is there any reason not to use say a single 6" arm per side for macro and a single 12" per side for wide angle?

 

The setup I just used for macro was, on each side, Ikelite handle to ball adapter, clamp, 5" ULCS double-ball, clamp, short Sea & Sea ball adapter. I found that with the extension and flexibility of a clamp on either end, and the inches of the ball adaptor, that a single arm, even a short one, was fine for macro (90mm). I liked the results I got with the strobes usually pointed in, and didn't find a need to elevate them much, if at all, over the port, so the short arms were not a problem for me. I thought this gave pretty even and shadowless lighting, which I liked. (And it kept the whole rig fairly tight and easy to use, which was a big plus, as it was my first time using a DSLR underwater, and first time with 2 strobes.) Maybe this one would have been better with a little more light from above, but you sure get a good look in the mouth.

 

 

I think that for macro, setting up the lights with single short arms, on about the same horizontal plane as the lens, helps get into narrow spots like this one. The crab was tucked into a narrow crevice:

 

 

I guess I'd do something similar next time, but will probably take 8" arms too, and add them when shooting wider than 90mm.

[Undertow 31]

Is there any reason for preferring two segments per side over one? Is there any reason not to use say a single 6" arm per side for macro and a single 12" per side for wide angle?

 

you will have far more flexibility in positioning the strobes with the extra joint in the middle - if necessary one can fold the strobe in close to the port to point out & 'edge' light. its also easier for transporting the housing.

 

Is there any specific reason to have the shorter arm on the housing and the longer one on the strobe? I am going to use this set up this weekend: 12" on housing and 5" on strobe on a 10.5mm lens. Note: the 12" were new acquistion. Thx.

 

with the shorter one inside it's easier to lay the strobes on the ground to the side of the housing topside, making storage & transport easier.

 

cheers

 

chris

[kkgodiving 1]

with the shorter one inside it's easier to lay the strobes on the ground to the side of the housing topside, making storage & transport easier.

 

Thanks, Chris.

[wolfeeldiver 7]

I rarely shoot with both strobes permanently affixed to the camera.

 

I typically shoot with one strobe (my fill) fixed on an arm coming in from the right side, at about the 2 or 3 o-clock position. Then the more powerful main light is the one that I fine tune most of the time. Sometimes I light from above, from front, from behind, from the left, from underneath. It just depends on the composition desired at the time.

 

To accomplish this, I have a quick disconnect mechanism on my main strobe's arm, so that I can uncouple it underwater if desired. During a dive I typically disconnect from the housing and hand hold it in my left hand. I'm typically swimming about, housing in right hand, main strobe and arm in left hand. If I turn the housing from horizontal to vertical, its quick and easy to redirect the light from the desired direction. No needing to adjust any fixed arms. The arm is about 3' long. This method allows me to quickly move the strobe on the fly, fine tuning and adjusting the light angle, direction, and distance to fit the subject and scene. It takes a little practice but with this method I find for me more useful to get the desired lighting.

 

In summary.. I recommend giving some consideration to "hand holding" your main strobe instead of it being always fixed to the housing.

Edited August 20, 2008 by wolfeeldiver

[Chris Yorke 0]

I have found this whole topic to be very informative. I to am new to this and have often asked myself about arm length. I currently only have a single strobe (DS125). I wish to replace the ike arms with the ultra lights. Hope no one mines me hijacking this information.

[Andy A 0]

What is the recommended length for strobe arms when doing Wide Angle shooting? RIght now I only have a 6" arm connected to an extended arm mount at the release handle on an Ikelite housing (this is their standard 4086.61 set-up that comes with the DS-125 kit). This has worked great while doing macro work, but I'm thinking I'll want the strobes a bit further away for WA. So what's a good overall length? And am I better off getting a single longer arm or just adding another section to my existing one - like a 4"?

 

thanks!

 

Could do with advice on this topic myself !!

[pacey999 0]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to this forum and pretty new to UW photography.

 

I know this is a little off topic, but could i have peoples thought on what system of arms is recommended. It seems that most people are using the ULCS, has anyone used alternatives like the TLC system?

 

I've been using 10Bar housings with 10bar arms and I believe they are ULCS clamps, but I find it quite difficult to set the correct tension to be able to move the arms fairly freely yet hold in place. I have been experimenting with lots of different strobe positions to see the results. I know that the TLC system doesnt use o-rings so I guess it would be smoother to move the strobes around but they wont hold in place as well as the ULCS. Does anyone have any experiences with the TLC's that they could share? Or is it best for me to go for the ULCS?

 

I'll be upgrading to a Aquatica AD7000 and using it with 2xInon Z240 strobes.

 

Also, I found my previous setup (10Bar NEX-5 and 1xInon Z240) very heavy underwater which was find in most circumstances but qutie tiresome when trying to hold stead for extended time and maintaining buoyancy over fragile reefs. I would like to get my next system trimmed to neutral buoyancy, does anyone have any recommendations about what buoyancy system to use and how much bouyancy will be required for an Aquatica AD7000 with 8" dome or 105mm macro port & 2xZ240's.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice,

Mark

[pacey999 0]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to this forum and pretty new to UW photography.

 

I know this is a little off topic, but could i have peoples thought on what system of arms is recommended. It seems that most people are using the ULCS, has anyone used alternatives like the TLC system?

 

I've been using 10Bar housings with 10bar arms and I believe they are ULCS clamps, but I find it quite difficult to set the correct tension to be able to move the arms fairly freely yet hold in place. I have been experimenting with lots of different strobe positions to see the results. I know that the TLC system doesnt use o-rings so I guess it would be smoother to move the strobes around but they wont hold in place as well as the ULCS. Does anyone have any experiences with the TLC's that they could share? Or is it best for me to go for the ULCS?

 

I'll be upgrading to a Aquatica AD7000 and using it with 2xInon Z240 strobes.

 

Also, I found my previous setup (10Bar NEX-5 and 1xInon Z240) very heavy underwater which was find in most circumstances but qutie tiresome when trying to hold stead for extended time and maintaining buoyancy over fragile reefs. I would like to get my next system trimmed to neutral buoyancy, does anyone have any recommendations about what buoyancy system to use and how much bouyancy will be required for an Aquatica AD7000 with 8" dome or 105mm macro port & 2xZ240's.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice,

Mark

[Steve Williams 0]

Hi Mark,

Welcome to Wetpixel! A lot of folks like the StiX floats to adjust the bouyancy of their rig. Typically the wide angle setup with the big air bubble in the dome will have more bouyancy than the macro rig. On my rig the big dome is neutral without additional floats. I add four of the big Stix floats to my 5 inch arms with the macro rig. A float collar around the macro port will also work well but can be hard to keep attached depending on your port. It just takes a little experimentation, every setup/housing can be a little different. I found that balance is important too. Out of the box my rig was nose heavy and would become hard to hold in place for more than 5 minutes or so. If your trying to get just the right expression on the goby's face it can become sort of a pain.

A little time in the pool with your new rig will tell you if you need to make adjustments.

 

Lots of folks here use the TLC arms you asked about, quality of both is great.

 

Congrats on the new setup!

Cheers,

Steve