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As someone who has a number of tourism based shooters ( video & stills ) out every day this thread has been of interest to me.

 

Marks logic is fair given that he is rationalising his experience, and in turn placing a value on the experience, opportunity and the stock footage for his library that he gained by arranging a low-cost dive holiday - great for him and the team , great for the dive-shop. It is good for him to appreciate the $ value of his experience and acknowledge that .

 

On the subject of the ever popular " promo video ( now promo DVD ) " I have found a base formulae that has proven viable in quoting and billing such jobs.

It has helped in giving the client an appreciation of the various costs involved and helps them to understand that you are not being unreasonable.

 

By using the cost of "dry hire" ( no operator ) of the equipment necessary plus expenses ( travel meal etc. ) and then adding a reasonable day rate we have been able to get a fair dollar for such jobs.

 

We have found that 4 days is the average time a "Quick Little Local Promo " takes to complete.

 

Using the base of USD $300 for a camera / housing / edit bay package and USD$300 for the shooter / editor . USD$600 x 4 places the "Quick Little Promo " at $2400 for this they get a finished promo mastered and a agreed quantity of tapes / discs suitable for shows , store windows etc.

 

Anything less than this is not viable in my view.

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As for starting from scratch, a blonde girl came up to a photog and asked " Do you shoot for National Geographic?" "No..." he answered. "but I've been published in Nat Geo Kids?!?" he pleas as she turns and walks away unimpressed toward the Imax crew.

 

Dru,

 

Never a truer word......... we see them every day.

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First of all Mark, I apologise if you find my comments condescending. I was merely making a comparison tongue in cheek. I guess you misread it too. :lol:

As for my reasoning, you talked about coldcalling for $50k etc, while still alluding to the promo job and the stock images collected. I thought I'd clarify a little more. Again, if that offended you, I'm sorry. I suppose the medium doesn't allow for tongue in cheek expressions.

Pmooney, that little story is a true story that just happened last month. We went around looking for the Nat Geo guys to borrow their tshirts and caps, since one cap obviously wasn't enough. :wub: And there's hope as there was another blonde who fell for one of the non-nat geo crew, but he was too much of a snob to go for hippy backpackers. :rolleyes:

 

 

The comparison regarding a dive shop in Fiji sending someone to shoot in Tenerife for a promo of Fiji is really off whack, condescending and bears nothing to the context of my posting !!!

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Dru,

 

I am truly serious - we see them everyday - them, and those people who have always wanted be a underwater camera person ................... I've got no experience ( or demonstrable proof that they are really interested in imaging ) but I'm willing to learn !

 

Next question is how much do I get paid while I'm training.......

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Dru,

Next question is how much do I get paid while I'm training.......

Hehehe if it's a goodlooking girl, shell out for room and board at your place :lol:

If they look like MikeV or worse Giles, toss them out on their butts and tell them to get a real job. :rolleyes:

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Drew, I must admit I thought $1200 sounded a bit low for a dive shop promo but perhaps realistic for a run-of-the-mill Phuket dive shop. Noting that Peter's up at $2400 (albeit in Aus, where overheads are a bit higher) and one of the others you mentioned is up near $2800 I think I'd be tempted to go in higher than that, even if a lot of stock footage is involved and the editing simple.

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Very true Nick.

If you were to approach West Coast Divers(the bosslady would probably make you pay her to do the DVD :rolleyes:) or Sea Bees(ok holga might be too cheap :wub:) I'm sure it'd be higher than say an ops without their own boat etc. $1200 for a day of shooting 2-3 dives, and 3-6 hrs of editing with existing stock you have is pretty good for one master copy DVD. They'd already have logos done and everything so it's a simple matter of editing and rendering. Then go to Soi Eric and wait for the render to finish. ^_^

I mean seriously, how many different ways can you shoot a leopard shark or the kingcruiser? :lol:

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Well, if it's a day's shooting plus 3-6 hours' editing then it's different.

 

Most promo jobs here, if they ever materialised at all, would for sure involve more than a day's shooting. They either own or use more than one boat that they'd like footage of in action, and they'd mostly want some of the shop, some of the filling station, some of the resort (if they have one), a pool session, a classroom session etc. etc..

 

Of course each job needs to be priced properly depending how extensive it is, but it's good to get some feeling for figures by discussing here.

 

I mean seriously, how many different ways can you shoot a leopard shark or the kingcruiser? :rolleyes:

Precisely the reason I needed to get my arse over to Indonesia!

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Most promo jobs here, if they ever materialised at all, would for sure involve more than a day's shooting. They either own or use more than one boat that they'd like footage of in action, and they'd mostly want some of the shop, some of the filling station, some of the resort (if they have one), a pool session, a classroom session etc. etc..

 

It is pretty much the same here - multi boat very diverse operations. This is why we allow 4 days as a base for our calculations.

 

I also quoted USD in my previous post. I already converted the charges back into USD to make our comparisons valid.

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IATSE commercial production minimum wage rates for 2005(US National Zone) are:

Camera Operators: $52/hr. 8hr days

DP: $85/hr 8hr days

This does not include location costs blah blah.

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That's useful to know. Would that apply to a second unit guy running around with a PD170, A1 etc.?

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2nd unit camera is still a camera man and thus still makes $52 an hour. This is the minimum for IATSE union production. DP rates will usually be higher for experienced guys.

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I see the BBC are showing programmes about the seas around the UK next week..There is one presented by the beautiful Kate Humble containing clips sent in (for free) by UK divers. I expect this is the same programme I was asked to contribute to for free and a name check...

 

So it begins... Better check out the competition !!!

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

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Kate Humble? Wasn't she on Top Gear with Clarkson?

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Nah.. You mean the other posh bird.. Shes on the tip of my tongue :rolleyes: got a double barreled name... Balls, cannot remember.

 

I know who you mean though.

 

Sod it I will not be able to sleep now <_<

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

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VICKY BUTLER-HENDERSON...

 

Yeah.. :wub::rolleyes:

 

Nice but not quite Kate's league... :lol:

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

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Yes Kate was on Top Gear for a few episodes during the migration to Fifth Gear.

Are you sure you're english?

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I see the BBC are showing programmes about the seas around the UK next week..There is one presented by the beautiful Kate Humble containing clips sent in (for free) by UK divers. I expect this is the same programme I was asked to contribute to for free and a name check...

 

So it begins... Better check out the competition !!!

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

 

Thats great, so now the stations don't even have to spend money to go out and buy-shoot the stuff, just expect everyone to send it in for FREE :rolleyes: Well they will not get any my material for the show if they find me.

 

I once went out with a Jap crew and at the end of the day not only did they expect to not pay me, (yes we did agree to a price at the start) but wanted some of my stock for free as well :lol: Anyhow I got some Jolly notes out of them in the end...O we are going to promote your area...ye right...just cheeky...

 

Yep it is getting harder as every man and his dog has a video camera and underwater box. Good thing it's not my only job.....

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You all know that Kate is married to TV producer Ludo Graham don't you???

 

I'm such a wet blanket :rolleyes:

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English with some Scottish blood from my mothers side.. :lol:

 

Just cannot remember Kate on top gear..

 

Oh crap, she's married :rolleyes:

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

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In France, the union minimum rates are as follows:

DOP : 452 €/day

Cameraman : 285 €/day

First camera assistant : 220 €/day

 

This is of course for topside film and nett.

 

PS Dean, Vicky is an ok driver, but Sabine Schmitz is the babe of the Ring. That woman can drive circles round 99.9999% of anyone around the ring.

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Well, in Denmark, you need to be certified as a commercial diver if someone wants to hire you for a job, to go filming underwater.

 

However, you can still sell stock footage.

 

That means a diveteam of minimum 2 persons, diver and tender with comms and umbillical to the surface, or diver and saftetydiver.

 

That is not making anything cheaper :lol:

 

I think that it is extremely difficult to make a living only by doing underwater filming. You will need to find something besides that, to fill in between.

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Hi all,

 

Just had my man from the BBC visit to cast a beady eye over my footage.

 

He liked it.. :guiness: Also said they have been using the A1 for some other applications. Probably for paper weights :blink: so I'm staying in touch. Got to get some more pieces to my film jigsaw together and then we will go from there.

 

Looks good so far.

 

Sorry.. Did not mention prices...

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

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Hans,

 

Same in the UK. You have to be 'HSE media diver' qualified to get day work.

4 weeks off work and around £2000 for the privilage of owning a certificate.

 

Drew, 'Babe of the ring' eh.. :lol: wasn't that a remake of Lord of the rings :guiness::blink:

 

Dive safe

 

Dean (dirty boy)B

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Hi,

 

I posted this thread a while back as I was looking into getting serious work. Well I was approached by a very large media company in the states.

 

From reading the replys I gave them a quote. My set up is HDV but they wanted DV, so I couldnt justify charging HDV rates and just set my camera for DV.

 

I charged $650 for wet days and $240 (40%) for dry and now have $4.5 grand in the bank for just 11 days work (only 4 diving the rest travel).

 

I considered charging extra for overnight stays but decided to counter by not discounting myself with a bulk rate charge, ie. a weekly rate being cheaper than 5 seperate working days. This was not raised by the compnay so I may look into this further for future jobs.

 

The producers where very happy with my work and considered my quote "very reasonable". This made me think that I could have charged more. I also spoke to their top side videographer who gave me tips and clues as to how to price in future.

 

He advised hiring out my equipment at a set price regardless of wet or dry days after all if its in transit you cannot earn money from your gear any other way, and my work seperately depending on wether Im sitting at an airport or diving. This also allows you to charge a little more and be able to work out which pieces of equipment are earning money for you and which are not. It also helps with tax purposes as you can itemise business expenses.

 

Apparently, a lot of companies use a set industry union standard for pay, which Im looking into and will post here. It does depends on location though.

 

Thankyou to everyone who has contributed to this topic, hopefully we can all take something from it and try and maintain a decent standard of pay for our work.

 

 

Fat Fish.

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