Resource for translating latin fish names?

[RebreatherDave 0]

I am trying to see if anyone has some tips for some online resource where I can take scientific fish names and translate them.... As an example, I thik longirostrus means long nose.....

 

I am working on a HiDef video documentary and hope a few viewers might be interested in the origins of the latin names....problem is maybe some of the names have Greek roots too....

 

I have tried a few latin to English translators online, but they haven't worked at all, even when I broken the names up into their parts......

[mattdiver 0]

I often use this website:

http://www.fishbase.org/

 

I'm not sure how it compares with others, but it's generally enough for me.

[Leslie 0]

I often use this website:

http://www.fishbase.org/

 

I'm not sure how it compares with others, but it's generally enough for me.

 

Hi Dave -- I'm unfamiliar with web latin/greek name translators but I do have a lot of reference books so feel free to send me any names you want translated.

[acroporas 0]

There is explanation of the latin names on fishbase? Where?

 

I often use this website:

http://www.fishbase.org/

 

I'm not sure how it compares with others, but it's generally enough for me.

[RebreatherDave 0]

Matt, great resource.......thanks a bunch.

 

It seems the orange spooted filrefish....Oxymonocanthus Longirostris means "One long nosed sharp thorn" ...what a crackup....

 

However it seems that sight does not handle invetebrates......so I have one remaining sacred task that you must complete.........no, it is not cutting down the mightest tree in the forest with......

 

A Herring!

 

Any similar resources for invertebrates?

[jander4454 15]

TRy going here - http://www.teachyourself.co.uk/llatin.htm

[Paul Kay 62]

I have an old book "Key to the names of British Fishes" by R D Macleod (1956) which explains the derivations of both Scientific and common names. Unfortunately, many of the scientific names are not latin - some are of Greek origniation and others derive from a variety of other languages too. If you are interested in any specific British Fish I'll email you those specific details (if they are in it) but not too many please!

[RebreatherDave 0]

Actually it is some shrimp I am interested in...

 

Periclimenes tenuipes

Periclimenese brevicarpalis

Cinetorhynchus as in the hinge beack shrimp that liked to hang around moray eels

Thor Amboinensis...named for the island of Ambon in Indonesia although I am trying to determine the etyology of Thor in association with such.

[Rocha 0]

Thor is the Norse god of thunder. He is a son of Odin and Jord, and one of the most powerful gods. I am serious, this is probably where the name came from, a strong little shrimp. Many of the names of genera have no meaning at all, like Abudefduf.

 

brevicarpalis = short legs (or arms); brevi = short

 

tenuipes = probably from tenuis = thin, slender

 

Periclimenes = probably from the Greek Peryklymenon = honeysuckle (maybe the shrimp legs and colors look like honeysuckles?)

[RebreatherDave 0]

Thor is the Norse god of thunder. He is a son of Odin and Jord, and one of the most powerful gods. I am serious, this is probably where the name came from, a strong little shrimp. Many of the names of genera have no meaning at all, like Abudefduf.

 

brevicarpalis = short legs (or arms); brevi = short

 

tenuipes = probably from tenuis = thin, slender

 

Periclimenes = probably from the Greek Peryklymenon = honeysuckle (maybe the shrimp legs and colors look like honeysuckles?)

 

 

 

Oh man, you guys rock!

 

I figured it was the Norse god Thor.....but the other stuff.....

 

So Thor Amboinensis appears to me Thunder God from Ambon (Indonesia island)

 

I figured brevi was from abbreviated or in Italian, brevette (sp?) carpalis from what I find is Latin and is the equivalent to the Greek "karpos" meaning wrist. In English we use the term carpal. So Brevicarpalis appears to mean "Short armed" so if we put them all together Periclimenes Brevicarpalis appears to mean "Short Armed Honeysuckle".

 

I did some research on tenuipes....seems tenui is a prefix indicating the characteristic of being slender. Tenuipes tranbslates to meaning "with a slender stalk" or probably in this instance slender bodied" so it looks like Periclimenes Tenuipes would loosely translate to "Slender bodied honeysuckle"

 

Now, considering I have to narrate this stuff over HiDef footage, how does one properly pronounce tenuipes? Ten-oo-ip-ess? I figure periclimines as peri as in periscope, and clim-in-ess as opposed to cli-meens, but that also leaves the question of which syllable receives the emphasis if at all.

 

Here is where I researched some of this stuff:

 

http://www.etymologie.info/~e/u_/us-__ca__.html

Edited September 13, 2006 by RebreatherDave

[Paul Kay 62]

Pronouncing scientific names is tricky and variable - I've seen one book (on Sussex marine life in UK) which actually tried to include 'pronouciations' but very few ever attempt to indicate how names should be spoken - potential authors could consider this as variable pronounciation does cause confusion at times. Its bizarre to discover that what you thought was a different creature that someone was talking about is actually one you know but didn't recognise the name the way it was pronounced!

[Rocha 0]

Call me a purist, but I pronounce everything as close to Latin (and Portuguese ) as possible... Meaning, i and y are pronounced "ee" and not "ai". For example, I've heard many people pronouncing Centropyge, centropAIGUE, while I pronounce it centropEEGEE, but I guess in the end it doesn't matter, as long as you write it correctly

 

Now, one rule holds for pronounciation across languages, OE and AE are pronounced as E only. This is very obvious in family names, all of which end in AE but are pronounced E. For example, the correct pronounciation is LabridE and not LabridAE, the A has no sound. The same holds for things like Halichoeres, the O in OE has no sound.

[acroporas 0]

Call me a purist, but I pronounce everything as close to Latin (and Portuguese ) as possible... Meaning, i and y are pronounced "ee" and not "ai". For example, I've heard many people pronouncing Centropyge, centropAIGUE, while I pronounce it centropEEGEE, but I guess in the end it doesn't matter, as long as you write it correctly

 

Now, one rule holds for pronounciation across languages, OE and AE are pronounced as E only. This is very obvious in family names, all of which end in AE but are pronounced E. For example, the correct pronounciation is LabridE and not LabridAE, the A has no sound. The same holds for things like Halichoeres, the O in OE has no sound.

 

You can call me stupid, but my approch is much easier. I say them however they come out when I give them a quick glance. Often with an extra syllable somewhere and usually leaving another out. This works out fine since I normally only say them to myself when I am reading something.

 

Then I just avoid pronouncing them infront of people who will notice.

 

For example I pronounce Halichoeres hail-EE-O-cor-EEs Now do not ask me where that O came from

[Rocha 0]

Then I just avoid pronouncing them infront of people who will notice.

 

Hehehe, that's the way to go! Unfortunately for me I always present in scientific conferences where people do notice, but since most of these conferences are in English speaking countries I am in the minority and the English pronnounciation always wins!

[Leslie 0]

A lot of the older marine invert names come from Greek & Latin mythology & literature with lots of references to marine themes. Periclimenes is an adaptation of Periclymenus (greek)who's listed as one of the argonauts accompanying Jason in the quest for the golden fleece.

 

Brevicarpalis refers to the short proportions of the "hand" so it's Periclimenes' short-handed shrimp.

 

Periclimenes tenuipes was probably named for the very long & thin first pair of arms. Incidentally, this & other long-armed Periclimenes have been transferred to the genus Kemponia so the new name is Kemponia tenuipes. P. kororensis is another one that's been put into Kemponia. Kemponia is probably named for the british crustacean expert S.W. Kemp.

 

Cinetorhynchus is a re-arrangement of the genus name Rhychocinetes. Names like this indicate the close relationship between two genera.

[Leslie 0]

Hehehe, that's the way to go! Unfortunately for me I always present in scientific conferences where people do notice, but since most of these conferences are in English speaking countries I am in the minority and the English pronnounciation always wins!

 

Which english? American english or English english? Vowels are pronounced differently & stress points vary. English english speakers use the same pronounciations (allowing for accent, of course) as most european language speakers. Americans don't. Typical yanks.....

 

But I'm with William - a few extra syllables just make the names sound better!

[Graham Abbott 0]

Hey Dave,

 

If you happen to find a book or anything that explains how to translate the latin names please do let me know. I must be like you, I wanna know what some of these names mean? Though diving with guys like Gerry Allen, you may wonder if he is just having a joke when he makes his fish name up!

 

As for the pronunciations, yeah right! Come on now, most of the world pronounces common place names differently, you can't expect divers to try and pronounce latin names correctly as well!

 

I have to go along with Leslie here as we are obviously speaking the real Queens English, tho I ope no one picks me up on me grammer or me spellin!

[RebreatherDave 0]

Well, we have one opinion that periclimenes means honeysuckle in Greek, although I can't seem to find a Greek dictionary to confirm, and another opinion that is comes from Greek mythology, which I did find this:

 

Periclymenus

 

by Micha F. Lindemans

The son of Nereus. He participated in the voyage of the Argonauts. He was renowned for his strength, and also because Poseidon had given him the ability to change himself into various animal shapes. He was killed by Heracles during the destruction of Pylos (Ovid XII, 556).

The son of Poseidon and Chloris, one of the defenders of Thebes during the attack of the Seven.

[Graham Abbott 0]

Or you could try...

 

per·i·cline (pr-kln)

n.

A variety of albite occurring as elongated white crystals.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[From Greek periklins, sloping on all sides : peri-, peri- + klnein, to slope; see klei- in Indo-European roots.]

[Leslie 0]

An excellent book is Brown, R.W. 1985. Composition of scientific words. Smithsonian Press, 892 pp. It's out of print so you'll have to track it down through a web book seller. I need a copy too!

[Rocha 0]

I got the meaning of Periclimenes from the book that Leslie cites above... We have a copy here!

[RebreatherDave 0]

I got the meaning of Periclimenes from the book that Leslie cites above... We have a copy here!

 

 

Rocha,

 

I am confused, you said Periclimenes was honeysuckle, but you got the meaning from the book Leslie cites which says Greek mythological character who could morph into different animals.....

 

Which one is it? I couldn't find any reference to honeysuckle.....I don't want to narrate "short armed honeysuckle" if it should be "short armed strong shape shifter" from that Jason and the Argonauts movie, lol....

 

By the way, I found this link to an apparent republished version of the book.

 

http://www.amazon.com/COMPOSITION-SCIENTIF...TF8&s=books

Edited September 13, 2006 by RebreatherDave

[Leslie 0]

Rocha,

 

I am confused, you said Periclimenes was honeysuckle, but you got the meaning from the book Leslie cites which says Greek mythological character who could morph into different animals.....

 

Which one is it? I couldn't find any reference to honeysuckle.....I don't want to narrate "short armed honeysuckle" if it should be "short armed strong shape shifter" from that Jason and the Argonauts movie, lol....

 

By the way, I found this link to an apparent republished version of the book.

 

http://www.amazon.com/COMPOSITION-SCIENTIF...TF8&s=books

 

Luis meant he got the honeysuckle information from Brown's book. I got the reference to Periclymenus the argonaut from "The Classic Latin Dictionary in two parts: Latin-English and English-Latin, compiled from The Best Authorities, introducing illustrative quotations, and historical and geographical notice" published in 1893. It has a lot of the mythological names omitted by Brown's book. Given the marine association of the argonauts I think this is the more likely source for the shrimp name. But maybe we're both right - maybe Periclymenus the argonaut was named for a flower!

 

Thanks for the amazon link. I didn't know Brown's book was reprinted but as it's so good I"m not surprised.

[Rocha 0]

Well, this is a complicated question, and I guess the simple answer is that we will never know for sure. For some names like brevicarpalis it is really easy, but for names that have many meanings, we don't know what the intention of the scientist that named it was.

 

Scientists only started writing more detailed descriptions which included an explanation about the etymology of the name after 1900 or so. Before that, descriptions usually consisted of the species name and a single paragraph with the main characters. Here is what is on "Composition of Scientific Names":

 

Page 599: periclymenum, L. (Gr. periklymenon), woodbine; see honeysuckle.

 

Page 418 (under honeysuckle): Gr. klymenon, n. a bindweed, honeysuckle; periklymenon, n. a honeysuckle.

 

Here is what a google search reveals:

 

LONICERA PERICLYMENUM (= from the Greek name, Periklymenon, for a honeysuckle) Caprifoliaceae Honeysuckle

 

But you are correct, and Periklymenon is also an argonaut. Since we don't know if the person who named the genus was thinking of the honeysuckle or the argonaut, I guess we will never know, but I think this may give you a clue:

 

Honeysuckle

 

Shrimp

 

So, I vote for honeysuckle shrimp (or shrimp that look like honeysuckles)

 

Luiz

 

P.S.: Just had a thought, I am not that familiar with crustacean taxonomy, but taxonomists in general are very consistent. Check if the genus Thor (not the species Thor amboinensis) was described by the same person who described Periclimenes (again, the genus), if they were I bet whoever described them was widely using names from the Greek mythology, and in this case I vote for the argonaut theory!

[Leslie 0]

So, I vote for honeysuckle shrimp (or shrimp that look like honeysuckles)

P.S.: Just had a thought, I am not that familiar with crustacean taxonomy, but taxonomists in general are very consistent. Check if the genus Thor (not the species Thor amboinensis) was described by the same person who described Periclimenes (again, the genus), if they were I bet whoever described them was widely using names from the Greek mythology, and in this case I vote for the argonaut theory!

 

I'm sticking with the argonaut.

 

Maybe one of the crustacean experts that lurk here will see fit to chime in and enlighten us all.