Canon Predictions 2007

[rabbit fish 0]

Came upon this site a few days ago. Has some interesting info... http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digit...tions_2007.html

[herbko 0]

It's less than a month from the PMA gathering and leaks like this one are beginning to surface.

 

http://www.imx.nl/photosite/comments/c031.html

 

Looks like the new 1D will have a FF sensor with the same resolution of the 5D, very fast and ISO 6400 and an 1.3x cropped mode for $4500. The new 1Ds will have 22M pixels.

[Paul Kay 62]

My 1DSs already stress many lenses - I can see flaws in even L lenses - so I'm not certain why 22MPixels is seen as an advantage. I'm not saying that it won't happen (if people are willing to pay for it I'm sure it will) but I really don't understand why - increased bit depth would be far more useful, for one. Speaking to another local pro the other day I was pleased to find that he too shared this view despite shooting to print at A1 and larger for gallery sales. MPixels are not the be all and end all of digital image creation!

[herbko 0]

My 1DSs already stress many lenses - I can see flaws in even L lenses - so I'm not certain why 22MPixels is seen as an advantage...

 

That may be true; however, there are lenses that can resolve better than that in their sweet spots. So the small increase in resolution from ~17M to 22M may be an improvement for some. At 22M pixels it's still not as dense as the D2x sensor which would be 28M pixels if it's expanded to FF.

 

I agree about the bit depth. The FF sensors really can use a 14bit to 16bit A/D converter.

 

If these leaks are true, I suspect the new 1D will be far more popular than the new 1Ds.

[james 0]

Wow, this speculating is great! I now have a 5D for Sarah and I just bought a 1DsmkII for myself, so I compared them. The IQ from the 5D is better than the 1DsmkII at ISO's above 400 in my opinion.

 

If they put the sensor from the 5D into the 1D body, that would be OK, but it's still too big and clunky compared to the D2x. It needs to be lighter and w/ a LION battery.

 

I like the high speed crop idea - I've been waiting for Canon to "adopt" that.

 

Cheers

James

 

PS, the rumor 'article' has been removed, but someone copied the text. Here it is:

 

'Canon high end strategy goes for 35mm format

 

New Canon high-end cameras announced: D1 and D1S models with 35mm format sensor area.

 

In my original article about the Canon 5D I reflected on the technical and more philosophical aspects of the �barnack�-format for digital cameras. I noted that the 5D was a milestone camera because of feasibility of a large sensor at an affordable price. It was and it is my view that the 35mm format and the matched optics to create classical viewing angles and classical depth of field gradients, in addition to the artistic aspects of using the 2:3 format that has to be mastered before you can compose interesting pictures.

 

Olympus went for the easy way with the 4:3 format, that is much easier to use and conforms to the ubiquitous TV screen format that is a constant visual companion on today's culture.

 

In the current issue of AP, Geoffrey Crawley looks at the aspects of image quality tht is attainable with the full format (35mm) and the APS-C format that is roughly equivalent to half frame, and retains the 2:3 relation. He concludes that image wise there is a draw: both sensor areas deliver the same imagery. He compares two systems that have about the same pixel size and then it is not surprising that theoretically and with test charts the same image quality is possible. But there is much more to analyse here. In my comparison of the M8 with the 5D, the Canon gave somewhat better resolution despite having a larger pixel size. It is the software stupid! You can hear Bill Clinton shouting. And my Siemens star results indicated that the MTF values in the region from 30% to 10% of the Nyquist maximum are critical for effective image quality.

 

Presumably the debate will go on for a while and that is fine. We simply do not know that much about digital capture and digital processing as we know about chemical processing the silver halide grain. Here we have an history of 100 years of cumulative experience, but in the digital arena our knowledge spans hardly a decade. And myths are already all over the place!

 

You can like or hate Canon, but one theme is obvious: here we have a company that has a very steady course and a very clearly defined goal for the next ten years. Some cameras that were introduced over the last thirty years might draw negative comments and did not become world beaters. There main fault in retrospect has been to focus too long on the amateur market and leaving Nikon alone in the professional pond. But since the EOS body emerged around 1985, the company exhibits a singular drive.

 

The new D1 packs the sensor of the 5D in a really robust body, the film-loading 1V (end to that era?). The capture speed is very high and there is that mysterious comment that the 1D has no memory buffer, presumably wring directly to the flash card. The new 1Ds shares the same body and brings the pixel count to 22 million on a 24x36mm area. The most intriguing remark is Canons statement that from now on there will be no more 1.3 crop sensors. The strategy then is clear: the amateur market will be served by APS-C with 1.5/1.6 crop factor and a new range of lenses. The professional high-end market will be exclusively served by full-format sensors allowing all Canon lenses to operate at the true computed focal length and viewing angle. Canon seems to be quite confident that the problems with the 35mm format can be addressed and overcome. There is now also an ISO 6400 value available. The new cameras will be formidable instruments, the 1D attacking the professional market for mobile photography and the 1Ds (with 22 M pixels) attacking the medium format stationary (studio) photography. There is a risk here: many professional reportage photographers do not want nor need that huge amount of pixels. Is Nikon smarter in this respect and listening more closely to the market?

 

Nikon continues to state that they will not embark on that route and stay faithful to the APS format derivatives. For how long we may ask?

 

The 1D will retail for 4500 dollars and will be cheaper than the Leica M8. This is not a clash of civilisations, but a minor clash of belief. The M8 couples a mechanical film-loading body to a solid state sensor and retains as much of the classical values as can be done within the technological constraints.

 

The 1D couples a fully electronic film-loading body to a full 35mm format solid state sensor and skips as much of the classical values as can be accomplished within operational constraints. There is no doubt in what direction the mainstream buyer will move. Canon is shaping the market and the others are more or less responding to market trends as they are perceived by the gurus.

 

Leica has been troubled over the last decade by a most erratic decision making process by a series of CEO's and this decision making is reflected in the current stable of products. One really hopes that there will be now a steady developing strategy with a clearly defined future vision for the product range to be developed.

 

The Canon strategy is very consistent and very profitable. Their choice for the classical 35mm format for the high-end camera system is somewhat surprising, given the fact that they are alone in this choice, but then the market power of Canon is quite strong.

[Drew 0]

If they put the sensor from the 5D into the 1D body, that would be OK, but it's still too big and clunky compared to the D2x. It needs to be lighter and w/ a LION battery.

Noooo I have 3 1D batteries... no change please!

 

 

I like the high speed crop idea - I've been waiting for Canon to "adopt" that.

Ay por favor, I hope they don't. I'd be disappointed if they dumped the 1.25 crop,which I think is the best compromise. Sweet spot of the lens and just a little bit of extra focal length.

[james 0]

Drew: you're talking like a Nikonian when the D2x came out. It's a FF sensor w/ the same sized pixels as the 1.25 crop camera. You can crop it yourself if you like later... Or you can let the camera do it. Either way, if the pixels are the same size it doesn't matter much.

 

I just want a lighter battery. It would be awesome if you could use BOTH Lion and the older heavy NiMH

 

Cheers

James

[Drew 0]

hey I had a D2X for awhile... a short while.

 

The thing I don't like about the HSC mode is that the viewfinder has more clutter. Which many don't mind but for simpletons like myself, I like the clean look.

Plus if I use FF then I don't get 8+fps, which is kinda silly to me.

I sorta like the NiMH batteries, sure they are heavier but they last a lot longer than Lion and can be readily recycled up to 80%. I hope they don't go to Lithium Polymer either, great but the lifespan of a fly. My computer and cellphone batteries are dead after 1 year. LiPo isn't recycable either.

Of course another reason why I don't want Lion:

 

[Paul Kay 62]

"Noooo I have 3 1D batteries... no change please!"

 

I've got 7, what are you worried about?

 

But on topic WHY do we need 22MPixels (seriously, I'm interested/intrigued as 10 are more than adequate for 99% of uses)?

[segal3 0]

But on topic WHY do we need 22MPixels (seriously, I'm interested/intrigued as 10 are more than adequate for 99% of uses)?

As an excuse for allowing noisier sensors? Just downsize and noise is interpolated out...

[herbko 0]

As an excuse for allowing noisier sensors? Just downsize and noise is interpolated out...

 

Not quite. Noise in the shadow is dominated by the output amp. Taking one large pixel and split it in two and recombine the outputs afterwards will increase noise by about ~1.4x compared to the original.

 

Looks like Canon is giving you a choice. There's no reason at all to get the new 1Ds if you prefer 12M pixel over 22M pixel.