Canon EOS-1D Mark III announced

[herbko 0]

It's on dpreview:

 

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0702/07022208...os1dmarkiii.asp

 

Some of the early speculations about this being full frame is wrong. It's 1.3x cropped.

 

It looks like they up the speed and resolution by ~ 20%. They also put in 14-bit image processing, the one feature that I was looking for. Hope that'll be in all their future high end cameras including the 5D replacement, when they get around to it.

 

Oh Yea, and live view!

[Rocha 0]

It looks good indeed, yes Herb, sunbursts will look excellent in this new camera with the 14-bit image processing. Some more of the very nice new features:

 

1) -1 to 18 ev, 19 cross-type sensors autofocus system, with sensors spread through the detection area (the top of the line Canon 1Ds mk II has only 9 sensors, all in the central area of detection and a sensitivity of 0 to 18 ev) and the user can make micro-adjustments (no more backfocus?).

 

2) Automatic, in-camera sensor cleaning system.

 

3) For the trigger happy people (or for those who don't like to change cards between dives), it can take 2, yes, 2 memory cards at the same time, one CF and one SD. With this feature you can also for example record RAW files on the CF card and JPGs on the SD card, save the same images on both cards for backup or use one card at a time.

 

4) 1/300 flash sync.

 

I must confess, this camera is looking awfully good, especially at an MSRP of US$ 3,999... Here is the official Canon site:

 

http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos1dm3/html/top.html

[Craig Ruaux 0]

The first thought that popped into my mind when I got an email about it from the old Rob Galbraith forums can be succinctly summarized as:

 

holy crapweasel

 

And then I found myself thinking "That is a remarkably flexible, remarkably capable body, and the price is really pretty competitive. And look, they seem to have kept the form factor constant from the 1D, 1DMkII etc etc."

 

I think the Canon camp has reason for a warm inner glow tonight.

 

[Alex_Mustard 0]

Wow - very nice indeedy.

 

I also think that the price will be a benefit to non-canon users in the long run.

 

Alex

[herbko 0]

Here's a link to the official propaganda

 

http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/C...White_Paper.pdf

 

The auto focus is disabled in the live view mode.

 

Lost in the all the attention on the 1DIII is the new 16-35mm lens which they claim to " ... specifically designed for improved peripheral image quality in wide-angle shots...".

[Alex_Mustard 0]

I am not familiar enough with the 1D series to answer this myself, are all the controls in the same place as the old body so it will fit in existing housings?

 

Alex

[MikeVeitch 0]

are these features really worth more than double the cost of a D200?

 

I for one see $4K as rather pricey...

[caminu 0]

I am not familiar enough with the 1D series to answer this myself, are all the controls in the same place as the old body so it will fit in existing housings?

 

Alex

 

No. they are not in the same place as the old bodies.

[herbko 0]

are these features really worth more than double the cost of a D200?

 

I for one see $4K as rather pricey...

 

I think this is targeted towards the PJ's, especially the ones covering sports. Those making a living with a camera can work out the dollars and sense of the $4k price for their own business. For those who's got this expensive hobby, it cost less than a D2Xs.

[Paul Kay 62]

"No. they are not in the same place as the old bodies."

 

BUT... the original 1D and 1DS share an identical body, the 1DMkII and DSMkII also share an identical body which is fractionally different from the original MkIs. However (speaking about Seacam) I can run MkI bodies in a MkII housing with little adjustment and Seacam can upgrade a MkI housing to take a MkII with little loss of controls (ie nothing that is desperately required). The last version of the 1DMkII (larger rear lcd is also different but simply requires a modified housing back - also supported I think. It looks like this new body is somewhat differently shaped and whilst controls are shifted I don't see a new housing being a fundamental rethink - it may even be possible to offer some form of conversion (with loss of controls) but this will depend on the precise sizing and alignment. Canon are not going to be at focus unfortunately or they might have had one as a taster!

[Alex_Mustard 0]

I think this is targeted towards the PJ's, especially the ones covering sports. Those making a living with a camera can work out the dollars and sense of the $4k price for their own business. For those who's got this expensive hobby, it cost less than a D2Xs.

 

I agree - this camera is cheap. And is aimed at the sports photographers. I am sure many of them will already be putting orders in.

 

Alex

[Rocha 0]

The good news for the Canonites are that most of those new technologies (14 bits, 19 cross type AF, in-camera sensor cleaning and AF adjustment, 1/300 flash sync, etc) will eventually be implemented in other bodies...

[davichin 18]

this will be the third best canon camera or so (after they complete their 5D etc... new models) and it seems that it will be better than nikon´s best model... . I think nikon needs something from their side

[davichin 18]

It also has "Highlight Tone Priority" that can be set:

 

http://www.jirvana.com/pdfs/EOS_1D_Mark_III_WP_070221.pdf

[cor 0]

Cool, now we can expect all these features in a Nikon body soon also The highlight tone priority sounds cool for sunburst shots.

 

Cor

[UWphotoNewbie 1]

I think the main significance is what this means for what is to come.

 

$4k for a pro body is not too bad.

 

If Canon is implementing a sensor cleaning system then everyone will have to--that means Nikon too. It probably means that all new models will include it.

 

Live preview looks like a promising addition. Unfortunately, if it means sacrificing AF then I don't see the point. The (even at 3") screen isn't good enough to judge focus and its hard to use MF underwater anyway. I'd rather look through the peephole than try to focus manually. If I'm focusing manually its for extreme macro and the screen won't help and I won't even get focus confirmation.

 

I'm most ambivalent about the 1.3x crop. Why? It seems to me to be neither here nor there. To begin with you can't get decent WA with this camera. With a 1.6x crop canon you can use the Tokina 10-17 or the host of 10-24mm range zooms. On full frame you can use 15mm fisheyes, 16mm zooms or 14mm rectilinear primes. With the 1.3 crop you are relegated to full-frame lens choices but you can't get the full benefit from them. I thought this interim solution was dead with the advent of the 5D. I think they should have either added or deleted $500 and pushed it to either cropped or full frame size.

 

 

Now 10 frames/sec and 14 bit are nice additions.

[Rocha 0]

I'm most ambivalent about the 1.3x crop. Why? It seems to me to be neither here nor there. To begin with you can't get decent WA with this camera. With a 1.6x crop canon you can use the Tokina 10-17 or the host of 10-24mm range zooms. On full frame you can use 15mm fisheyes, 16mm zooms or 14mm rectilinear primes. With the 1.3 crop you are relegated to full-frame lens choices but you can't get the full benefit from them. I thought this interim solution was dead with the advent of the 5D. I think they should have either added or deleted $500 and pushed it to either cropped or full frame size.

 

This is a 1D replacement, the 1D has always been 1.3x and is designed for photo-journalists and sport photographers. I don't think this camera will be a good choice for underwater photography, I am just hoping that they transfer these technologies to the 1Ds and 5D replacements and that Nikon eventually adopts similar features...

 

Here is a paragraph from the specs of the new Canon that makes you appreciate the new features more: "The EOS-1D Mark II N digitized its sensor output to 12 bits of resolution, allowing 4,096 levels of gradation from each pixel. The 1D Mark III digitizes to 14 bits, allowing 16,384 levels." Yes, 3X more levels of gradation, think sunbursts...

[ChrisJ 0]

a video presentation in french.

 

http://www.focus-numerique.com/news_id-38.html

[echeng 0]

It also has "Highlight Tone Priority" that can be set:

 

http://www.jirvana.com/pdfs/EOS_1D_Mark_III_WP_070221.pdf

That looks very promising! Although enabling it does constrain the ISO to 200+, which is not ideal for sunballs.

 

I'm excited for the new 16-35 lens. One of my friends has already promised to buy it, and I'll give it a test once he gets it (whenever it ships).

 

The 1D Mk X series cameras are overkill for underwater use -- no one needs 10fps underwater unless they're shooting action in available light!! But the new technology embedded in the camera is really exciting, and once it trickles out to the rest of their line I'm hopeful that we'll see marked improvements in image quality across the line-up.

[davidrodkeller 0]

Yes, 3X more levels of gradation, think sunbursts...

If I understand Canon's comments on this camera, all that is happening is more levels of gradation per color within the same dynamic range. This will decrease the need for interpolation or increase it's accuracy either in camera or in converter, but I don't see why it will cure an ill whose major cause is close dynamic parameters.

 

That's not to say it isn't a vaulable evolution for other reasons though.

[segal3 0]

If I understand Canon's comments on this camera, all that is happening is more levels of gradation per color within the same dynamic range. This will decrease the need for interpolation or increase it's accuracy either in camera or in converter, but I don't see why it will cure an ill whose major cause is close dynamic parameters.

Check out page 12 of the linked White Paper for the 1D MkIII - it shows an example of a bride in a white gown, and the increase in highlight detail is remarkable when Highlight Tone Priority is used.

[Rocha 0]

There are two problems related to photographing sunbursts in digital, one is blown highlights (due to low dynamic range) and the other is a bad gradation from highlights to shadows, eg. lines of sharp color difference instead of a smooth transition. If you look close enough (or in some real world examples) you will see what I mean. The 14-bit conversion will at least improve the transitions, and the high contrast option does increase the DR by one stop, but it's minimum ISO is 200...

[herbko 0]

Here's my guess at what the high contrast mode does:

 

1. meter exposure at ISO 200 setting

2. process the sensor output at ISO 100

3. apply a tone curve to bring the mid tones and shadows back up to ISO 200

 

This has the net effect of reducing blown highlights at the expense of more noise and banding at the mid tones and shadows. Since the sensor has very low noise to start and now has a 14-bit A/D, the higher noise probably will not be noticed. The two extra bits will give smooth tones to the under exposed and pushed up parts. This essentially the technique for getting a good sunball.

 

The dynamic range of the sensor is (maximum signal captured before clipping)/(noise level). The new 14-bit A/D does not change that. It just divides the signal into more levels and let you brighten the underexposed regions more and still have smooth tones.

[stone 0]

1.3 crop is a problem! Using FF fisheye like sigma & canon 15mm becomes less fishy. Anyone tried with tokina 10-17 FE on 1DII or 1DIIN?

 

Here is the link with tokina 10-17 on a 5D:

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/review/2...11/17/5039.html

[drsteve 6]

Here's my guess at what the high contrast mode does:

 

1. meter exposure at ISO 200 setting

2. process the sensor output at ISO 100

3. apply a tone curve to bring the mid tones and shadows back up to ISO 200

 

This has the net effect of reducing blown highlights at the expense of more noise and banding at the mid tones and shadows. Since the sensor has very low noise to start and now has a 14-bit A/D, the higher noise probably will not be noticed. The two extra bits will give smooth tones to the under exposed and pushed up parts. This essentially the technique for getting a good sunball.

 

The dynamic range of the sensor is (maximum signal captured before clipping)/(noise level). The new 14-bit A/D does not change that. It just divides the signal into more levels and let you brighten the underexposed regions more and still have smooth tones.

 

I think you are right about the high contrast mode, which essentially automates what photographers currently do. I know that when I am shooting a bright scene I apply an exposure compensation of -1 stop to prevent blowing the highlights and then add a contrast enhancing S curve after the fact.

 

Your comment about the dynamic range is also correct. I think that a lot of people think that dynamic range is the max/min signal (where min is 1 bit), which would be correct for a noise free sensor. In real sensors, the dynamic range is limited by the sensor noise, which is a combination of well depth and readout noise. Canon claims that the noise is lower due to their improved microarray which leads to better light gathering efficiency. However, this remains to be seen. I suspect that the noise performance will not be much different than the 5D which has pixels that are 8.2um. The new sensor has pixels that are 7.2um with the improved microarray. Therefore the wells are shallower, but get more light. It is probably a wash.

 

One place they might have made improvements is in the readout noise. I know that my 5D shows patterned noise in the shadows, which must be a flaw in the readout circuitry.

Edited February 23, 2007 by drsteve