Scuba_SI 39 Posted March 11, 2007 OK so back to your $0.2 with a hypothetical question. You book a live aboard trip and then... say a little over half way through your trip your dive guide goes and tries to grab a some big animal, he looses a hand and the boat has to go back to shore to get the guide to a hospital. As you are way out in the open ocean this means you have to miss the rest of your dive trip as you steam back to shore. Would you be OK with this? Hi Graham, The important part of my backing of feeding is 'in a responsible way', i personally have never tried to handfeed a moray, they give me the 'heebie jeebies' to quote my mother, the often opaque appearance of their eye means i don't have faith in their ability to tell the difference between my fingers and the food. With the sharks i used to feed, i always had a back up instructor watching my back, we worked together for years and were very good mates, so i felt very safe, and we knew when to call it a day. We were also the only people feeding and we only did it once a week at the site normally. and diving there without food too meant the sharks didn't associate divers with food. The only time i was bitten was by a juvenile silvertip, and it literally just gently clamped on my arm and released, as it knew it wasn't food, i still use the wetsuit now. It heightened my respect for these amgnificent animals and was a warning i wish teh gentleman in hte video had had. Back to the liveaboard thing, we were 4 hours from the port at our feeding location, so a cancelled trip was never an issue. That falls down to the discretion of the captain, if you are 3 days away from port, then don't feed! We also always asked our guests if they felt strongly against feeding to come and talk to us about it, it there was a majority who didnt want it, then we didnt do it. If there was a few who didn't like it we would organise a different dive for them. I have never dived/dove with a handfed moray, so i cant really comment on them harassing other divers without food, in my experience with fairly small sharks, if you don't have and food on you, and are out of the way of the scent trail you are fine,. This subject always brings strong emotions and comments from divers, and i dont think either side of the argument is wrong, it all depends on location, dive guide experience and many other variables. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Abbott 0 Posted March 11, 2007 If i started to get to know my latest subject and then started stroking it, dancing with it, taking it out on a saturday night trusting it unconditionally and then it stole my wallet..It would be my fault. Not the fishes..Its wild...Wild its absolutely Livid. Are you sure you are talking fish there? Hey come on this is Wetpixel, how about looking at this photographically. Is a shot of a moray eel out in the open surrounded by other divers a sort of wish list kind of photograph? Or is this kind of thing going to bring you the kind of photograph you would like to shoot? I think it certainly made for a fantastic film sequence. It now gives out a great lesson for others, the morel to the story obviously being “treat marine animals with the utmost respect†Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drew 0 Posted March 11, 2007 Just to demonstrate the power of the jaws of eels, another vid of a eel devouring a crab. What's even more interesting is that another crab actually attacked the eel while it attacked the crab. Eel eating crab Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Abbott 0 Posted March 11, 2007 Hi Scuba_SI, I don't have any major problems with feeds and the likes, as you say "if done responsibly" and when all divers want this kind of diving. I admit to doing a bit of feeding myself, though generally not with animals that could cause me great harm. I tend to go for the unusual, rare and hard to find critters that divers would not usually see without... let just say, a little invitation. For example - a Bobbit worm coming out of its hole like this... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scuba_SI 39 Posted March 11, 2007 One of my worst dive experiences so far was on a dive out or Port Douglas many years ago with a Dm who had a loaf of bread with them, she was throwing the stuff everywhere to attract the fish, that i didn't agree with at all and always tried to ensure that we were perceived in a very different manner to what i saw that day on the GBR. As for the Bobbit worm? What did you dangle in front of that to get it to come out? And did it eat it or drive 1000km away and throw it out of the window?? Just to demonstrate the power of the jaws of eels, another vid of a eel devouring a crab. What's even more interesting is that another crab actually attacked the eel while it attacked the crab. Eel eating crab I'm not sure on this one and may get shot down in flames but it might be worth it if i'm right...... Has Drew just got something wrong!?!?!?! I thought a Wolf eel isn't a true eel... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Abbott 0 Posted March 11, 2007 As for the Bobbit worm? What did you dangle in front of that to get it to come out? A clue -- sometimes you don't need to use anything but what nature has to offer underwater. Like most animals, they will often attack their usual food scource, if the food cource comes within striking distance! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drew 0 Posted March 12, 2007 As for the Bobbit worm? What did you dangle in front of that to get it to come out? And did it eat it or drive 1000km away and throw it out of the window?? I'm not sure on this one and may get shot down in flames but it might be worth it if i'm right...... Has Drew just got something wrong!?!?!?! I thought a Wolf eel isn't a true eel... Eunice Aphroditois aka Bobbit worm is interesting, etymologicallywise (is that a word?). If my greek mythology doesn't fail me, Kronos cut off Uranus' testes and threw it into the sea, then out came Aphrodite. So Lorena wasn't the first snipper, although she ultimately became the most famous one since she went for the main equipment vs castration. And I didn't get it wrong.. I just forgot to add the wolf in front of the eel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frogfish 5 Posted March 12, 2007 (edited) Robert, how would you feel if this same guy done this on your trip and you had to go back to port missing dives, just because your dive guide was playing with animals. I have seen the footage of Valarie Taylor in the Ring of Fire with big morays. If I remember rightly she was not teasing it like this? Graham, Please read what I said. I certainly wasn't by any means endorsing what this guy was doing or the way he was doing it, just troubled by the tone in which some condemned what he did. In any case, I think we would both agree he has paid. Some people (though not me, and reading your post I guess not you either) might condemn Valerie for the kind of interactions with animals she has practiced. As for your question, please rest assured that if I'm ever on a trip you are guiding, and if a moray or whatever were to chomp off one of your body parts, I'll vote to continue the trip. Edited March 12, 2007 by frogfish Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Giles 1 Posted March 12, 2007 How many people have been bitten by the morays in sting ray city, prompting some ops to go out and kill the moray to protect the biz. Twice as I recall .. the reasons the people got bit .. trying to protect a customer who was unaware of the eel swimming around her .. and one had been feeding it. The other time a guide got bit I believe while feeding it .. and I know the idiot whos employees fished the eel out .. that disgusts me (but its only happened once to my knowledge). Over the years I guess it could be more .. I am recalling from 10 years. This discussion has brought out some high horses and quite a few opinionated responses without fully reading what they are responding too. it's great to belittle other people who are young and learning when you are older and supposedly more wise I guess. Learn from older peoples mistakes rather than your own .. is this the moral of the story ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeanB 19 Posted March 12, 2007 Thats what discussion forums are for... Whether it be.."High horses" or not, its opinions..Whether these opinions matter..Thats for the respondent to choose. People will keep on trying to push the boundries and 'show off' to friends or try to make wild animals pets for their own pleasure or any other matter..Thats their look out. As long as the creature's unharmed, thats all I care about. We are as far as I'm concerned in their house.. Dive safe DeanB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drew 0 Posted March 12, 2007 please rest assured that if I'm ever on a trip you are guiding, and if a moray or whatever were to chomp off one of your body parts, I'll vote to continue the trip. Now now... I would've at least called for help to meet the boat at the next dive site. You do know there are seaplanes in Bali for just such emergencies. Twice as I recall... It's happened more than that in the last 10 years. Then you also throw in the stingray bites. Bottom line is some people think it's acceptable damage for the odd person to get bit and the ray to be killed etc. and many who think it's not. Learn from older peoples mistakes rather than your own .. is this the moral of the story ? Well that would be so nice as many of our previous generation's mistakes are being repeated. Europe and the US have biologically killed rivers, you'd think India and China would go ... "hey let's not follow in those bozo's foot steps!" Instead the bozos go... "hey they did it so we can too!" I think the strong condemnation also comes from a concern for other human being's safety. You have to admit that this incident was totally avoidable. It's a waste to lose a thumb on something as frivolous as this. As for Valerie's interactions, personally I'd have a problem with it. Will I say something to her, yes? Would I cut her air hose to stop her from doing it?....... give me time to think over that one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielandrewclem 3 Posted March 12, 2007 Feeding a large, toothy fish some sausages that are the same color and shape as your own digits is deeply irresponsible, as it could teach the fish to regard other divers' fingers as sausages in the future (let alone your own in that very moment, as was the case here). Habituating wild species to our presence may afford us the chance to learn more about them or have fun, photogenic experiences with them (a la Valerie Taylor's "Honey"), but it also makes it a lot more likely that something bad could eventually happen, because now we've normalized and encouraged the encounter. Even animals that have been trained or tamed can end up reverting to their instincts under certain circumstances or with the right cues, and the results aren't always pretty (see: Siegfried and Roy). There is something very naive about this assumption that seems to underlie the activities of some divers, u/w filmmakers, and the Timothy Treadwells of the world: that we ought to be able to interact peacefully with any species on Earth, and that violent interactions are the anomaly. Yes, it is possible to habituate a wild animal to your presence, but it's magical thinking to surmise that there's something natural or transcendant about being near a bear or swimming alongside a great white. This is precisely why I despise Rob Stewart's film "Sharkwater": because he anthropomorphizes sharks to such an extreme extent that he actually believes that when he swims with them he is communing with them. Some people simply go too far in trying to show that potentally dangerous animals are not always dangerous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Poliwog 4 Posted March 12, 2007 How many people have been bitten by the morays in sting ray city, prompting some ops to go out and kill the moray to protect the biz. Lets not forget about getting big hickies from the stingrays too! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davichin 18 Posted March 13, 2007 comments welcome ... I didn´t know Elvis dived...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scuba_SI 39 Posted March 13, 2007 comments welcome ... Nice Fins, and i thought i had the skinniest legs in diving... evidently not! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeanB 19 Posted March 13, 2007 Filthy pervert... I hope that eel was above the age of consent A great advert for keeping your hands off ... Dive safe DeanB 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralphy 1 Posted March 13, 2007 As far as I am concerned the marine life is NOT there to be touched and I cannot see any good coming of it. R Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nunomix 0 Posted March 13, 2007 What an idiot !!! The final part showing him playing playstation is at minimum ridiculous. "No problem..." Next time he should play with sharks. If they bite him... "No problem..." By the way, giving sausages to a moray eel? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ce4jesus 1 Posted March 13, 2007 "Nice thumb" <----- LOL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PCDiver 0 Posted March 14, 2007 (edited) A couple of years ago we where diving in Bonaire under the Town Pier. We ran into a morray eel that was feeding on a carcass of a fish. The morray eel was rather small (around 3 ft), but the way it twisted its body to break the carcass gave me some healthy respect for all morays. I've uploaded the video --> http://users.telenet.be/PCDiver/video/morray.mov. You need quicktime to play it. The file is around 9 MB. For size reference: The footage shows the moray next to a tyre. This is a big truck tyre, not a regular car tyre. Peter Edited March 14, 2007 by PCDiver Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Giles 1 Posted March 14, 2007 I am confused ... a video of some guy in thailand feeding an eel for the camera you all throw stones at him .. and he went through the hardship of loosing a thumb. A picture of another guy in the caribbean feeding an eel whilst holding it with a dive knife at his side ... now all that gets mentioned is the pink fins and skinny legs .. seems like a topsy turvy world to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drew 0 Posted March 14, 2007 Well Giles, it just means they didn't bite. And I really don't want to tell the world you're missing an appendage or 2. I can't see the dive knife bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cerianthus 55 Posted March 14, 2007 i still have a bit trouble believing this is true..... I only saw a moray eel, and a separate shot of a missing thumb. Underwater, there was a pop sound, (If it was bit off, it wouldve been cut of, not torn off) and a written comment stated that this was what happened..... Gerard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
