Nikkor 105 VR

[Sven 0]

Dear Forum members,

 

I recently acquired the Nikkor 105VR.

 

As this lens is about the same size as the 17-55 I already use, I wanted to try the housing port I use for the 17-55 with it, as to avoid buying a new port. So I tried DP-FE2 + EXR70 (Subal) with it (a dome port with an extention ring).

 

However, the 105 won't focus under water in this setup! Even when I tried to focus manually at a fixed distance above the water (like the Nikonos), which is working fine trough the dome out of the water, in the water it won't work.

 

Could I solve this using a diopter ?

 

I see Subal announces on it's website a new port specially for the 105 VR: "FP-FC105VR". Anyone has used it ? How is the manual focussing going ?

 

Best regards

 

Sven

www.flickr.com/photos/svenalgerie

[seagrant 4]

Sven,

 

I don't know about using the 105vr w/the dome, it would seem to me difficult/impossible; but then I'll let someone else with more experience answer that.

 

But I can give you my practical experience with the newer Subal 105vr port (dedicated - w/manual focus).

 

Good thing is the port is really nice and the manual focus knob on the port contacts the manual override on the lens very smoothly. Manual focus is nice and relatively easy with that port.

 

Drawbacks to the Subal 105vr port are:

 

It won't fit the 105vr lens plus a diopter (say a 5T or 6T) inside. I have a question on this myself on another thread - but it seems to me if you add a small extension ring to accommodate the diopter then the manual focus that contacts the lens directly (no additional gears on the lens) - won't line up? I haven't worked it out yet as I don't have an extension ring yet, but I'm trying to work this out and have ?s out on it in another post to see if anyone else has.

 

Also the Subal 105vr port is very wide, about 120mm, so if you want to put a Woody's diopter (wet & removeable underwater) on the end you will have to get a special size. I thought I had a source to get me one but the dealer never delivered after many inquiries from me so I contacted Woody directly and he is putting together a wet diopter in the size cap to fit the 105vr for me, his service is great. Maybe some smart people here could figure out how to put his wet diopter in their own larger cap (I think there was a post on it), but I'm not that bright......

 

The 105vr lens and the 105vr port are heavy, but then you probably already have some buoyancy solutions worked out as the whole d200 system is heavy. Plus I'm sure as far as the "diopter" thing you could add the backscatter MacroMate to the Subal 105vr port, they have one in that size, but the MacroMate lens is very heavy underwater on an already overly heavy lens/port/camera system.

 

I think you can get Subal extension rings for the 1.4X and 2X different size teleconverters to fit and I don't see then any problem with the manual focus knob on the Subal 105vr port aligning with those added. Still I'd be interested in anyone's experience with TCs and diopters with the newer Subal 105vr port. There have been threads on similar things but not much regarding their use with this dedicated port.

 

That's what I know.

 

Best, Carol

Edited April 8, 2007 by seagrant

[Scuba_SI 39]

Hi Sven,

 

The problem you're having is that underwater with a dome port your camera is focussing on the virtual image. Above water it will work fine, but underwater you'll run into trouble. For macro lenses you need a flat port.

 

I dont know if the older auto ports for the 105mm and the 60mm work with the VR lens, but if they do they might provide a cheap way to get the lens housed.

 

Simon

[seagrant 4]

Sven and Simon,

 

I researched ports/housing options for the 105vr in Subal pretty well.

 

Besides the newer dedicated Subal 105vr port, the 105vr lens can be housed in a modified Subal 60 port and extension ring. Alex has a post and pics of it and I think Rocha has housed it that way too, it does save some bucks. It has no manual focus capability (but it does allow for a 5T diopter).

 

Ryan at ReefPhoto devised a modified Subal 105vr port using the 60 or 90 port and an extension ring, he even added a modified manual gear for manual focus but I don't know how it worked. I suspect it worked fine as Ryan is really good at tweaking things, but then the dedicated Subal 105vr port came out so I decided on that one.

 

As far as I know the older Subal 105 (non vr) lens port won't work at all.

 

That's additional data that I know on it,

 

Best, Carol

Edited April 8, 2007 by seagrant

[LChan 0]

I have a friend who tried a 20 mm extension ring (milled out a little to accomodate the size of the 105VR) with the subal 105VR port. It adds enough space to put any diopter (either 5T or 6T). However, he was not able to use the manual focus. Apparently the gear did not contact the focus ring on the lens.

 

I have talked to Ryan about this, one option is to take the diopter off its ring and attach the diopter directly to the lens. I wasn't too excited to take my expensively acquired diopter (from ebay) apart.

 

So that is where I am at for now.

[seagrant 4]

I have a friend who tried a 20 mm extension ring (milled out a little to accomodate the size of the 105VR) with the subal 105VR port. It adds enough space to put any diopter (either 5T or 6T). However, he was not able to use the manual focus. Apparently the gear did not contact the focus ring on the lens.

 

I have talked to Ryan about this, one option is to take the diopter off its ring and attach the diopter directly to the lens. I wasn't too excited to take my expensively acquired diopter (from ebay) apart.

 

So that is where I am at for now.

 

LChan,

 

That is what I was afraid of.

 

How do you attach the diopter directly to the lens? Take the ring off and lay it on top and then the 105vr port holds it on?? Yea I'm with you, I don't know if I want to go taking my 5T and 6T apart as I can't get any others..... Plus how do you take it apart (and put it back together) safely?

 

Have you heard of anyone trying a smaller ex ring, isn't there a Subal 15mm that fits the port? Maybe the focus knob would contact it then? Or has anyone rigged anything that would help the focus knob/gear "reach back" just a little to make contact? I know there is not a lot of room inside the port to do it but I thought I'd ask anyway.

 

Please let me know if you or anyone else comes up with anything.

 

Best and Thanks, Carol

[LChan 0]

the best is if Subal would build a slightly longer port for the 105VR.

 

the other option is just to use the 20mm extension and shoot auto.

I did it using my old Ikelite (D200 and 105VR) setup.

A little more tedious, but it works.

 

btw: it seemed that Ryan had taken apart the diopters before. He said it was no big deal to take off and put back together. You can ask him if you are interested.

[seagrant 4]

Thanks Larry,

 

Yea, Alex Mustard pointed out some time ago that he felt it was "dumb" for Subal to release a port for the 105vr that didn't accommodate a diopter.

 

Yes I can use a 20mm extension and shoot auto, but then if I had known that I could have saved a lot of money on the manual focus Subal port and just put together the modified ports like Alex and Rocha did.

 

But again I guess you get to use manual focus when just the lens is housed or a TC is used (hopefully MF will line up with a TC). Funny thing is you need the MF mostly with a diopter/TC. Frustrating. An expensive "almost" great MF 105vr port.....

 

Thanks for the data on taking apart the diopters. I'll look into it and ask Ryan, he is really busy but I think I can get a couple of quick ?s in???

 

Has anyone else taken apart the 5T and 6T diopters with success?

 

Many Thanks, Carol

Edited April 8, 2007 by seagrant

[davephdv 0]

I have the new 105 VR port from Subal. Have used it on two trips so far. Seems to work well. Note you can use the 60 in the same port. Doesn't seem to vignette.

 

If you use the flip macromate lens you have to buy a new ring to attach it to the port. 150$ from backscatter. It is a slick set and works well.

 

The near focal point of the 105 is probably too far out to focus on your domes virtual image. A long enough ext. ring would probably do the trick but is may be so long that the risk of leakage is too great.

[seagrant 4]

If you use the flip macromate lens you have to buy a new ring to attach it to the port. 150$ from backscatter. It is a slick set and works well.

 

Thanks Dave, maybe Sven would be interested in Backscatter's MacroMate for the 105vr.

 

But as for me on my d200 the flip macromate is too heavy a lens underwater that is why I was trying to fit diopters on the 105vr lens inside the housing, for greater quality and a lighter/less negative setup. Remember the d200 is heavier in the water than the D2X.

 

I'll try taking the diopters apart and mounting them inside, or just going with auto focus. Also I'll have a Woody's diopter to fit soon from Woody and I can use that sometimes so I'll figure something out that works best for me.

 

If anyone else has any data on using diopters or TCs with the newer Subal 105vr port and still having manual focus knob work please let me know.

 

Appreciate it, Best, Carol

[Sven 0]

Thank you all.

 

As the 105 does 1:1 already I'm not sure I will use diopters or TC soon.

 

I'll go for the dedicated Subal port.

 

Kind regards

 

Sven.

[loftus 42]

Sounds like Subal should be made aware of this and re-engineer tham a tad longer.

[Rocha 0]

You can also add a short (20mm) extension ring to it. Since I use mine in AF all the time, I am using it with an FP-90 port and a 33mm extension ring, but I had to increase the internal diameter of the ring slightly. It fits with up to two diopters (Nikon 5T and 6T) in front of it.

 

I also had to adjust my housing's zoom knob, which was pushing the lens. Detailed instructions here:

 

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13542

 

Luiz

[Sven 0]

Hi Luiz,

 

I see you use AF all the time.

 

For info, does the camera focusses well even in bad vis (when there are particles between the lens and the subject) ?

 

Rgds

 

Sven.

 

by the way, great stuff on your site. I like the French Grunts doing strange things,

I tought I made them posing but you are a communication level higher

http://www.flickr.com/photos/svenalgerie/452141166/

Edited April 10, 2007 by Sven

[Alex_Mustard 0]

the best is if Subal would build a slightly longer port for the 105VR.

 

I think that the real lesson in all of this is for housing manufacturer's to speak to the photographers who use their kit a bit more. Even if they choose to ignore their advice for financial reasons.

 

IMO they should make a modular macro port - where ext rings can be added in front of focus gear to accomodate dioptres - while maintaining the line-up of the focus gearing.

 

Personally it does not affect me, because I won't use MF with this lens - so use different ports, so I shouldn't moan too much. It is not as if Subal haven't made this mistake before. I have two lengths of 60mm port - one for the dioptre and one without!

 

Alex

 

p.s. I really like the 105mm VR and have shot most of my latest big project with this lens. I still haven't shot the old 105mm since I got the VR.

[Rocha 0]

Hi Luiz,

 

I see you use AF all the time.

 

For info, does the camera focusses well even in bad vis (when there are particles between the lens and the subject) ?

 

Rgds

 

Sven.

 

by the way, great stuff on your site. I like the French Grunts doing strange things,

I tought I made them posing but you are a communication level higher

http://www.flickr.com/photos/svenalgerie/452141166/

 

It focuses well, even in relatively bad vis. The only problem I have is when I go close to 1:1 with diopters. My solution is to focus at 1:1 in a stationary and easy to focus subject (like a coral), switch to MF (locking the lens at 1:1) and then get close to the real subjects.

 

By the way, your yellow damsels picture is very nice too, I am pretty sure that's spawning behavior. I wish I had a picture of grunts spawning but has never been observed... The mouth to mouth thing seems to be either aggression or some kind of social contest within the schools.

 

Luiz