Your thoughts needed on the Canon XL...

[justin-branam 0]

so after 1 trip with my little "point and shoot" video setup, i am getting convinced that video is cooler than still photography (partly in thanks to the planet earth and blue planet series making me jealous). Now that i am serious about it, I really want to do this right the first time around (eeerrr, okay, second), because i know how much it cost me by slowly moving up with photography equipment.

 

I have been looking at the Canon XL1 and XL2, mainly because i am a canon shooter now, and really like the fact that i can use my current lenses on the camera, with the adapter, which would be great for above water use. I am trying to debate which camera to go for, but im thinking with wide-screen tv's being so popular now, the 16:9 on the xl2 is worth the extra costs by itself, but correct me if you think otherwise. I also understand this camera is awesome in low light??? I am curious as to how this camera does with slow motion shots (your input needed here)? I would love to get a camera that shoots at 120 fps as i am very fond of the slow motion shots, but that is probably a ways down the road.

 

As for now, any information or suggestions you all have for me, especially if you have owned this camera, would be very benefficial in helping me to make my decision. Thanks a bunch!

[Drew 0]

Justin

Welcome to the maddened crowd.

Is there any reason why you want a standard definition camera? The XL1/2 are awesome cameras but the XLH1 and XH series are the HDV equivalents and the picture quality far outresolve the XL SD series. Right now, the XL and XH series are pretty much as close to the best in lowlight HDV as can be. Plus you get better resolution and controls (there is a difference of 2-3 electronic years in models, which means a lifetime or 2).

The canon cameras are accepted to be the best HDV camera out there based on their ability to handle artifacting, resolution and lowlight. However if you think you are going to be able to use your 15mm fisheye, you're in for a big surprise. Canon video cameras are super cropped sensors (I believe the factor is nearly 8x) so the application is usually for super telephoto (wildlife, voyeurism/peeping etc).

However, the real limitation is housings. Right now, only Gates has the housing for the XLH1 and plans for the XH series. The XL1/2 has Gates and Subal (if you can find an old one). I would suggest you consider the XH series.

As for slow motion, most of the fixed fps cameras won't have much difference. The HDV compression on the canon is a little bit more artifact free (esp in busy scenes) so that does make it more resilient to frame blending for slow motion. Mostly the adage of higher shutter speed is the best advice, although if you go too high, you get a strobic effect which makes the clip useless for normal viewing.

If slow motion is your thing, consider the Panasonic HVX200, the current overcrank champion. Shooting 720P at 60fps, you can get 1/2x clips easily and they will hold up to further blending in post. Best of all, it comes in 4:2:2 100mbps codec in tapeless form so the workflow is much easier.

The only camera capable of shooting 120fps at HD resolution is the Phantom HD. It can shoot to 1000fps actuall . A few of the Sony cameras have a 120fps over crank for 3 seconds at reduced resolution.

Good luck with your choice.

[justin-branam 0]

Justin

Welcome to the maddened crowd.

Is there any reason why you want a standard definition camera? The XL1/2 are awesome cameras but the XLH1 and XH series are the HDV equivalents and the picture quality far outresolve the XL SD series. Right now, the XL and XH series are pretty much as close to the best in lowlight HDV as can be. Plus you get better resolution and controls (there is a difference of 2-3 electronic years in models, which means a lifetime or 2).

The canon cameras are accepted to be the best HDV camera out there based on their ability to handle artifacting, resolution and lowlight. However if you think you are going to be able to use your 15mm fisheye, you're in for a big surprise. Canon video cameras are super cropped sensors (I believe the factor is nearly 8x) so the application is usually for super telephoto (wildlife, voyeurism/peeping etc).

However, the real limitation is housings. Right now, only Gates has the housing for the XLH1 and plans for the XH series. The XL1/2 has Gates and Subal (if you can find an old one). I would suggest you consider the XH series.

As for slow motion, most of the fixed fps cameras won't have much difference. The HDV compression on the canon is a little bit more artifact free (esp in busy scenes) so that does make it more resilient to frame blending for slow motion. Mostly the adage of higher shutter speed is the best advice, although if you go too high, you get a strobic effect which makes the clip useless for normal viewing.

If slow motion is your thing, consider the Panasonic HVX200, the current overcrank champion. Shooting 720P at 60fps, you can get 1/2x clips easily and they will hold up to further blending in post. Best of all, it comes in 4:2:2 100mbps codec in tapeless form so the workflow is much easier.

The only camera capable of shooting 120fps at HD resolution is the Phantom HD. It can shoot to 1000fps actuall . A few of the Sony cameras have a 120fps over crank for 3 seconds at reduced resolution.

Good luck with your choice.

 

 

I was looking at the XL2 because it has the option for me to use my EOS lenses. I understand about the crop factor, which is good, because the main lens i would be throwing on there would be my 70-200 for use on safari to get long distance shots of shy animals. I haven't read anywhere that you can use EOS lenses on the newer XH series, only on the XLH. is this the case? If so, id rather have the interchangable lenses with the XL2, as its not worth it to me to spend another $5K on the XLH for HD at this point. Maybe later down the road though when i have so much cash i dont know what to do with it!

 

I also planned on getting a gates housing, so even though it is currently the only option, that is no concern for me.

 

as far as the slow-motion goes, its not worth an extra $2K for the panasonic for me to have it. i can deal with having decent quality half-speed video for now.

 

thanks a bunch for the information, and based on my above comments, do you still think the XL2 would be a good camera for me, or should i look elsewhere?

[Drew 0]

Well Justin IF you MUST use your EOS lenses then there's no choice is there? Just know that DV is rapidly dying format. HDV will future proof you a lot more than DV.

The XL1/2 has 3 lenses. For u/w, you'll need to buy the 3x wide lens besides the standard 20x. Suddenly you're in the $4k range new.

The XH series cannot use EOS lenses but it has a 20X lens and with a 2x teleconverter, you can get 1300mm (35mm equivalent). It's also around the $3k mark now.

With the XL adapter, remember AF is not available. Plus I'm not sure if IS works with the adapter. Also the bulk of the XL housings is more than a camcorder form factor housing.

You want my recommendation? Buy a HD camcorder with housing and get a used XL1/2 camera with adapter for those specialty shots (especially if they are few and far between). The XL series for uw is bulky (which is excellent for u/w use but travelling with it can be problematic). However if you are planning to go to say Africa for diving and safari, the XL option is good. But you'll be wanting HD soon once you see the difference in resolution.

[wagsy 0]

Hi Justin

As Drew said, you would regret going to HDV pretty quick if you got a DV setup.

 

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