What Olympus DSLR set-up would you recommend for me?

[fltekdiver 0]

Any reason you wouldn't want to go with a pair of DS-125's?

 

I looked in the Inon's, Sea&Sea's, etc, but why would you want to go a route with fiber optic cords etc, when you get use a pair of Ikelite's and get full TTL ? ( Ikelite housings )

 

If you have the Oly housing, then your loosing the TTL, and shooting manual. I tried reading all the threads, but there were alot of responces!!

 

I'n my opioun, the Olympus strobe in the Olympus housing, is ok, but after spending all the money on a DSLR set up, why wouldn't you just go with dual strobes, and have no shadows, etc , ?

 

I just purchased a pair a Ds-125's for my new Ikelite housing, from somone here on the board ( Kory ) , and can't wait to see the results of the camera, with a pair of those puppies hanging from the sides!!

[vinny 0]

hi fltekdiver

 

this is prob gonna sound strange to you but i actually like the idea of using one strobe

 

there are a couple of reasons thou

 

one is that i dont know what i am doing and like the idea or shadows to get depth in the photos

 

the other main reason in my choices are that i cannot carry too much equipment when i go travelling because of a disability

so i have chosen small equipment like a small camera , housing and one strobe

 

which also helps once i am in the water

 

i think reading all the posts i can get TTL with this set up using a converter

i also like the Inon strobes cos the speed of recharge and battery life

 

also a lot of my pics will prob be macro i love the little stuff

 

vinny

[fltekdiver 0]

hi fltekdiver

 

this is prob gonna sound strange to you but i actually like the idea of using one strobe

 

there are a couple of reasons thou

 

one is that i dont know what i am doing and like the idea or shadows to get depth in the photos

 

the other main reason in my choices are that i cannot carry too much equipment when i go travelling because of a disability

so i have chosen small equipment like a small camera , housing and one strobe

 

which also helps once i am in the water

 

i think reading all the posts i can get TTL with this set up using a converter

i also like the Inon strobes cos the speed of recharge and battery life

 

also a lot of my pics will prob be macro i love the little stuff

 

vinny

 

 

 

Sounds great Vinny, I'm sure you'll be happy with your choice. There are alot of great pictures being taken with single stobes.

 

Good luck with your set-up, let us know how it goes!!

[Islandbound 1]

Vinny

 

I too use one strobe generally. My left arm was severely injured in an accident a year ago and the nerves/muscles have not regenerated or were damaged. I cannot support a alot of weight as a result and consequently try to stick with on strobe, although I do own two. As an aside, in 30 minutes I am receiving 4 awards at a local photo contest all of which were taken with a single strobe including one which is an internal strobe in an Ikelite case no less (G7). I am not up to the standards of many members of Wetpixel but do well enough to get pleasing pictures for my wall and in this case, a local competition.

 

Good Luck!

[fltekdiver 0]

Congradulations Islandbound, do you have any to share here we could see?

 

Let us know how your awards go!

[vinny 0]

hi island bound

 

just reading a thread by you about a woody's i like the look of them too

 

like flekdiver says it would be nice if you could put a link up to see some of those pics

 

flek let us know how you get on with the set up you have chosen also

mine wont be getting wet until september

 

i dont know your circumstances islandbound but once your in the water have you thought about using buoyancy

aids on your set up to make it a little lighter , dont know if it would help

 

my situation is a bit different i have the trouble getting the equipment there , i had an argument with a bus

whilst on a motorbike nearly 10 yrs ago now, i came off worse than the bus

minus 1 leg ! i did put a lovely dent in the bus thou

 

and b4 u ask no i don't go round in circles when i am diving !

 

vinny

[Phil Rudin 461]

Hi Vinny,

 

Just happens that I have a 100 mm Woody's that may interest you, if so drop my a line.

 

I have seen plenty of outstanding images including several books all dome with a single strobe, less can be more at times. I myself have used a white plastic slate to reflect light from a single strobe back to a macro subject many times creating a studio like effect.

 

Phil

[vinny 0]

hi phil

 

just PM'd you about that

 

 

also regarding a single strobe it is sometimes easier to squeeze into a space

 

i noticed going from a compact without a strobe to one with that you just can't

put the camera into small spaces or up underneath a rock formation

 

horses for courses i suppose

 

i also think lighting from one side gives perspective

 

vinny

[Phil Rudin 461]

Yes, one strobe can make things a little more simple in that regard. Many times in macro the strobe is above the lens port and more out of the way. A single strobe was the norm for many years both for macro and wide angle. Multi strobes create a studio like effect which can soften harsh shadows, create depth and more. They can also can add additional backscatter, create more drag while moving about and more.

 

U/W photography is a learning process. If you can become proficient with a single strobe it will allow you to better understanding what is going on with two or more strobes.

 

If not the Woody's perhaps some of these.

 

Phil

Edited July 20, 2007 by tropical1

[vinny 0]

nice collection there phil

 

a pair for every occasion

 

also PM'd again about woody if you don't get msg let me know

 

vinny

Edited July 21, 2007 by vinny

[Phaedrus 0]

A few more questions for those good enough to help :

 

Olympus tech helpline are unable to tell me whether I can use two UFL-1 strobes with the E-410 via wireless fibre optics.

 

One - yes. Two? don't know. Anyone on here able to tell me?

 

They're also unable to tell me if the upright (cranked) part of this two-part bracket ( http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/dslr_PTBK-E01.htm ) is available separately to the bottom (flat) bracket.

 

IIUC, the bottom (flat) bracket attaches to the housing, the bottom of the upright (cranked) bracket attaches to this flat bracket, the top of the upright (cranked) bracket attaches to the bottom of the strobe arm(s) ( http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/dslr_PTSA-01.htm ), and the top of the strobe arm attaches to the strobe(s).

 

I've read that using the built-in flash can cause problems with backscatter. It seems some folk blank off the built-in flash. Does this affect the function of the fibre optic triggering of the external strobes?

 

I assume raising the E-410's flash while it's in the housing is the same as top-side: just press the button?

 

How do you put it back down (when the camera's in the housing) for taking shots where you don't want to use flash?

 

If you've blanked off the built-in flash, can it be retracted at all?

 

Won't any external, fibre-optically triggered (wireless or wired) strobes ALWAYS fire for every shot if the built-in flash is raised?

 

Or can the built-in flash be defeated via a menu-selection even if it's raised?

 

If it can't be retracted, does the battery drain more quickly?

 

I've also read that the housing can fog up if the built-in flash is raised - how bad does it fog?

 

What fogs up - the housing itself or the glass at the front of the port?

 

Does it render the set-up unuseable?

 

Does a silica gel sachet (or 3 or 5) solve it.

 

Thanks for any replies,

 

Mark

[vinny 0]

hi mark

i can answer a few of those

 

if you use an external strobe it is better to blank the internal , which will reduce backscatter

 

you blank the internal with a special filter that stops visible light but allows non visible light to trigger the external strobe , inon and 10 bar sell various pieces of this filter

 

alternately if you look at post #47 ( in this topic )phil tells us of a piece of kit from Athena that blocks the internal strobe

i have e-mailed them to find out how much it is

 

raising the flash i am not sure ,but you could set it to auto in the menu aim it at something dark and i pressume it will pop up by trying to take a picture , or pop it up b4 you put it in housing , you can adjust the flash in the menu to turn off /on and several other settings,

you might even have to leave it up if you use the clear photo filter to block the flash ( but i am not 100 % about that ) because of space and how you hold the filter on the flash

 

you don't need to put the flash back down just turn it off

 

the battery will drain more if you use the flash

 

i always had a problem with a sony fogging up but it was mainly due to me taking to many shots and heating up the air in the housing these housings are really tight to the camera , i could only get 2 silica sachets inside

 

silica sachets help a lot and when it fogged it was the lens glass of the housing that fogged

 

it was ok if i took some shots then gave it a bit of time b4 the next ones

 

there might be more air around the camera with this housing and also it depends what temp water your going to be diving in

 

i hope this is of some help

can't help with the other questions

 

vinny

[Phil Rudin 461]

Hi Mark,

 

Regarding the Olympus tray and arm system, you can find much better options from ULCS.com, Athena-opt.com, (where you will also see a wide range of Oly products), soon from Inon.co.jp and others.

 

If you forget to pop-up the camera flash before entering the water this can de done as Vinny said by going to auto mode and pointing the camera at a dark subject. Depress the shutter half way and the strobe will pop-up.

 

If you don't want the external strobes to fire, turn them off.

 

If the strobes can be fired by fiber optics then you can fire more than one. Inon makes dual cords or one cord to each strobe will work. All the fiber cord does is send a signal to the strobe or strobes to fire. If the strobes are in mamual they will fire at whatever power setting you have selected. If they work in TTL (not all strobes work in TTl with all cameras) the strobes will turn on when the pop-up flash turnes on and then turn off when the pop-up flash turnes off at the time of proper exposure.

 

Scatter from the op-up flash will not occure as long as it is blocked by a filter as Vinny discribed or by the Athena adapter in post #47. Other options exist as well.

 

I have not tested the E-410/PT-E03 housing with fiber optics yet but will do so soon and report back on the results.

 

I am using the Athena tray and grips which are not cheep but are the best I have ever used on any housing or camera system.

 

Attached are some fiber optics options, hard wired options, grip system and dome port options from Athena.

 

Most of these items are in stock or on order at reefphotovideo.com

 

The great part about the Olympus DSLR housing systems is that they have such a great selection of add on dome ports and other items from several diffrent sources.

 

Phil Rudin

[Phaedrus 0]

Thanks guys. Learning all the time.

 

Imagine where a newbie would be if it weren't for forums & review sites?

 

I have yet more questions.

 

Do the housing/port manufacturers deliberately manufacture ports so that one port will only accommodate one lens? Olympus tech support claim that the PPO-E05 will accommodate only the 14-42mm kit lens, but IIRC, someone on here (possibly Phil) posted that the port for the 14-42mm kit lens will also accommodate the 35mm macro lens.

 

Olympus UK have recently put an underwater system chart up on their website, supporting what they said:

 

http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/images/S...hart_PT-E03.pdf

 

I had originally envisaged that in addition to the two kit lenses, I'd eventually also buy the 35mm macro and maybe the 70-300mm - all eventualities covered and the little-boy "gotta-have-everything" factor boxed off.

 

I've since considered that the ED 50mm macro might be worth the extra money (over the non-ED 35mm macro), so I've been reading over the specs of all the lenses I'm considering.

 

I assume "(D)" to refer to the diameter of the lens and "(L)" to refer to its length. I've contacted Olympus to confirm (or otherwise) these assumptions.

 

The dimensions quoted for the 14-42mm kit lens are "65.5mm (D) x 61mm (L)".

 

The dimensions for the 50mm macro lens are "71mm (D) x 61.5mm (L)".

Same length (.5mm difference) as the 14-42mm but a 5.5mm bigger diameter. This suggest to me that the 50mm macro won't fit in the port for the 14-42mm?

 

The dimensions for the 35mm macro lens are "71mm (D) x 53mm (L)".

Same diameter as the 50mm macro but 8mm shorter. This suggest to me that the 35mm macro also won't fit in the port for the 14-42mm?

 

The dimensions quoted for the older 14-45mm E-400 kit lens are "71mm (D) x 86.5mm (L)". That's the same diameter as both of the macro lenses, and Olympus do claim that the port for the 14-45mm lens (PPO-E01) will accommodate the 35mm macro lens, which suggests to me that it is the diameter that determines whether a lens will "fit" in a port?

 

I understand that if you want to use manual focus on either the 35mm or 50mm macro lenses, you need a PPZR-E04 focussing gear ring thingy. Not sure how it works, but I read that it's needed for manually focussing these lenses.

 

From a revenue perspective, this is absolutely the "right" thing for Olympus to do - force the consumer into having to buy a port for every lens an UW photographer is likely to require. Not so good though, from a consumer's perspective, specially the consumer at the end of the market where he's considering a budget underwater set-up.

 

I lack the facility (luxury) here in Dublin to walk into a store and ask to physically try out all the lenses/ports to see what will & won't work. UW photography is not a big pastime or career here and from what I hear, Nikon & Canon is where it's at with anyone who is involved in UWP.

 

All said & done, judging by the shots in your (Phil's) recent E-410/PT-E03 review, the 14-42mm kit lens is more than capable of taking great macro and wide (-ish) angle shots, so maybe for a beginner, that lens is more than enough to start achieving better than satisfactory shots underwater?

 

How much of a down-grade (for want of a better word), from the E-410, 14-42mm as the kit lens, 50mm macro lens, PT-E03 housing & two ports (PPO-E05 for the 14-42mm, PPO-E03 for 50mm macro), would it be (in an effort to get going for the smallest cash outlay), to opt for the E-410, 14-45mm as the kit lens, 35mm macro lens, PT-E03 housing & one port (PPO-E01 definitely accommodates both 14-45mm & 35mm lenses and should accomodate the 50mm macro too)?

 

EDIT: Olympus responded - "(L)" refers to the length of the lenses in wide-angle state, so how that affects anything I've said above, I don't know - I don't know what the longest lengths (zoomed state) of the lenses are.

 

Mark

Edited July 31, 2007 by Phaedrus

[Phil Rudin 461]

Hi Mark,

 

It would be more accurate to say that manufacturers make multiple ports to allow the best performance from each lens.

 

First the diameter (D) of the lenses you have listed has nothing to do with the port being used. All will fit through the front of the housing which means all will fit into any port. It is the lenght of the lens when it is fully extended which presents a problem. Some lenses will be to long and touch the inside of the glass element and others will focus to close. In respect to the 35 mm macro it focuses to about 25 mm ( 1 inch) or less at 1:1 (about 2:1 in 35 mm terms). It can be used with the PPO-E01, PPO-E03 or PPO-E05 ports but in all cases it may at 1:1 be focusing inside the port or so close to the outside of the port that it is not practical to use it so close. If you back off to 1:2 or larger any of the ports will work. The Athena 35 MM port is the only port I know of which will allow full range of the 35 mm lens and it is still very close at 1:1. So the Olympus lens chart and those of other manufacturers indicate which ports will gain the best results with each lens.

 

Flat vs. dome, the PPO-E01 and PPO-E05 are ports with flat glass. This means that the angle of view of the lenses used in the flat port will be reduced, I.E. same as with your mask where things below the water line look larger than things above the water line. So you lose on the 14 mm end of the lens and gain on the 42 mm end of the lens. If you add a dome you gain on the wide end 14 mm and lose on the 42 mm end. You also add cost with a dome port. Athena makes a dome port for the 14 to42 mm but at a higher cost.

 

Gears are needed to drive the zoom lenses and this is when lens diameter (D) becomes an issue, diffrent dia. diffrent gear. You must have a gear for the zooms. The 35 & 50 mm macro can work fine in AF without a gear and are best in dim light when assisted by a focusing light. I have the Olympus macro gear but rarely use it with the macro lenses. I would highly recomend the 50 mm over the 35 mm because of the greater working distance to the subject. Cost wise the 35 mm with the one port will make a great entry level system and other items can always be added. Just be aware that the 35 mm will not work all the way to 1:1 without problems.

 

Athena 35 mm macro port and 14 to 42 mm zoom DOME port.

 

Phil Rudin

[eyu 27]

Hi Mark,

 

Regarding the Olympus tray and arm system, you can find much better options from ULCS.com, Athena-opt.com, (where you will also see a wide range of Oly products), soon from Inon.co.jp and others.

 

If you forget to pop-up the camera flash before entering the water this can de done as Vinny said by going to auto mode and pointing the camera at a dark subject. Depress the shutter half way and the strobe will pop-up.

 

If you don't want the external strobes to fire, turn them off.

 

If the strobes can be fired by fiber optics then you can fire more than one. Inon makes dual cords or one cord to each strobe will work. All the fiber cord does is send a signal to the strobe or strobes to fire. If the strobes are in mamual they will fire at whatever power setting you have selected. If they work in TTL (not all strobes work in TTl with all cameras) the strobes will turn on when the pop-up flash turnes on and then turn off when the pop-up flash turnes off at the time of proper exposure.

 

Scatter from the op-up flash will not occure as long as it is blocked by a filter as Vinny discribed or by the Athena adapter in post #47. Other options exist as well.

 

I have not tested the E-410/PT-E03 housing with fiber optics yet but will do so soon and report back on the results.

 

I am using the Athena tray and grips which are not cheep but are the best I have ever used on any housing or camera system.

 

Attached are some fiber optics options, hard wired options, grip system and dome port options from Athena.

 

Most of these items are in stock or on order at reefphotovideo.com

 

The great part about the Olympus DSLR housing systems is that they have such a great selection of add on dome ports and other items from several diffrent sources.

 

Phil Rudin

[eyu 27]

Hi,

 

I am currently considering getting my wife a 410, she is currently using an CL 350 and I would like to get her into a DSL. What is the battery life with active view on of the 410, how many dives? Also, compared to the CL 350, would the shutter lag be about the same in active view or shorter??

 

thanks,

[Phil Rudin 461]

EYU,

 

The E-410 has a slower shutter lag time than the E-330 and is best used for slow moving subjects. The upside is that the E-410 has a very bright 95% viewfinder which has no shutterlag and which your wife could learn to use in two or three dives. I don't find any diffrence in battery life between the E-330 and E-410 underwater, although I don't use live-view much. You would need to be diving four or five dives a day before this might become an issue. It has also been my experience that the batteries in the strobes go before the camera battery. If you have not read this review it might be helpful to you.

 

http://wetpixel.com/i.php/full/olympus-e-4...rwater-housing/

 

Phil Rudin

Edited August 9, 2007 by tropical1

[eyu 27]

Phil,

 

Your article is very helpful and informative, thanks. I use a DSRL and my wife uses the SP 350 point and shoot. I would like to get her into using a DSRL also, but she likes the LCD screen for taking her shots. My thinking is that with the 410 she could try the viewfinder and perhaps move away from the LCD approach since it would not have the shutter lag. Is the shutter lag with the 410 about the same as a point and shoot SP 350? What TTL is available for the 410, I currently have the SP 350 hooked up with a Heinrichs-Weikamp TTL using a 5 pin Nikonos with Inon 240. Could this be moved over and used in the 410?

 

thanks,

Elmer

[Phil Rudin 461]

Hi Elmer,

 

I have never owned a digicam so I would be guessing regarding shutter lag. I do not think your Heinrich TTL will work with the E-410, however the Olympus PT-E03 housing for the E-410 allows the camera flash to pop-up. As a result you can use the Inon Z-240 in TTL via a fiber optic cord. These seem to work very well and have many up-sides compaired to a TTL converter. Images of the Athena fiber optic arrangements for the PT-E03 housing are in post #63 on this page. My guess regarding shutter lag is that it about the same.

 

Phil Rudin

[fltekdiver 0]

Phil,

 

Your article is very helpful and informative, thanks. I use a DSRL and my wife uses the SP 350 point and shoot. I would like to get her into using a DSRL also, but she likes the LCD screen for taking her shots. My thinking is that with the 410 she could try the viewfinder and perhaps move away from the LCD approach since it would not have the shutter lag. Is the shutter lag with the 410 about the same as a point and shoot SP 350? What TTL is available for the 410, I currently have the SP 350 hooked up with a Heinrichs-Weikamp TTL using a 5 pin Nikonos with Inon 240. Could this be moved over and used in the 410?

 

thanks,

Elmer

 

 

eyu, the battery life in the E-410, will be a hugh difference from the Sp-350 you have. I havnt owned the 410, but from past olympus experiance, the battery in the SP-350 does not last long at all using the live view.

 

As far as the TTL, if you use the Olympus housing, and have the Heinrichs-Weikamp TTL switched over, i couldn't see why it wouldn't work. But like Phile has said, you could use the pop up flash to fire the fiber optic cable for the Inon.

 

I had the SP-350, and my friend is using the same set up, ( Sp-350 ), and I just dove with him this past weekend, me using my new E-330 in a Ikelite housing with a 8" dome, and dual Ikelite DS-125's, and him using his SP-350.

 

We emailed each other pics back and forth, and he thought his pics were coming out really nice, until we compared some of the same shot's , side by side, and he couldn't belive the difference!!

 

Keep in mind, I didn;t edit them yet, and this was the first weekend using my E-330, I was up till 11pm setting the camera up, and then woke up at 7am to finish the camera set up by 10am, and I was on the dive boat at 1PM, after a 2 hours drive south.

 

I'm sure you will be happy upgrading her to a E-330, E410, or even a E-510, either way she will enter the DSLR world, and will be learning every day shooting her new E-410, only to keep getting better.

 

Good luck, let us know what you decide!

[eyu 27]

I completely agree with you regarding the difference in quality of the pics between a point and shoot vs a DSLR system, especially underwater. I switched over to a DSLR last year and the quality of my photos has improved remarkably in both clarity and content. But my wife prefers the LCD screen to take her pics, so my thinking is that with the 410 she could use the LCD screen, find the shutter lag a pain and go to viewfinder. Also she wants a small system and this Olympus seems to fit the bill. Ideally I would like her to use my extra D200, but the size and lack of a LCD live view puts her off.

 

Thanks, Elmer

[rtrski 20]

Well, I guess you could also suggest the E-330 to her, since its Live View A mode - not recreated on the 410 or 510 - doesn't have any of the PnS or DSLR mirror movement lag at all.

 

But since you seem to be trying to 'trick' her into using a viewfinder, that's probably not what you're after. And reportedly the E-330 viewfinder is smaller and dimmer than in some others due to the extra sensor and light splitter that makes the Live View A mode possible. (I say 'reportedly' not because I doubt this to be true, but because while I've read it in many reviews and seen it in posts, the E-330 is my first and only DSLR so I *personally* have no basis for comparison to what a 'bright' viewfinder should look like). So it might be a double-whammy against your intent: no delay, and a 'hobbled' viewfinder both would conspire to undermine your desire to move her in that direction.

Edited August 10, 2007 by rtrski

[Phil Rudin 461]

RTSKI,

 

Since I have owned both cameras (E-330 & E-410) in Olympus housings I can assure you that the E-410 has a brighter optical view-finder ,faster AF and AF that works better in low light. I can also say that the live-view in AF ( which is the same as "A" mode on the E-330) is slower on the E-410 than it is on the E-330. To say that the E-330 has no mirror lag at all compared to using the camera with optical view-finder is wrong, there is some lag time it is just not as great as with the E-410/E-510. In manual focus on the E-410 (also known as "B" mode on the E-330) the lag time is about the same because the mirror does not need to raise a second time to focus. Both cameras and the E-510 all work in the same way the new cameras are just slower in AF.

 

I manual ( "B" mode on the E-330 ) the E-410/510 has several live view improvements over the E-330. White balance setting is applied in live view, exposure compensation is applied in live view, live histogram is available and AF before you fine tune with manual focus. These items are designed more for out of water use than underwater, but are still useful improvements.

 

I think the upsides of the E-410 far out weight the down sides for the underwater shooter.

 

Phil Rudin

[RogerC 4]

edit: I'm not sure why the quoting isn't working for me, so I tried a different format.

 

sorry for coming to the party late and having so much to quote. Phil, Jim, you gotta let me know when a good oly thread gets going!

 

My background: Started with nikon on land, went to nikonos underwater, jim church sold me on an oly 3040 & L&M tetra housing. That became a 5050 in an oly housing, adding Ike DS125s and manual EV controllers. Bought an E1, rented a housing in jan 06 for truk, loved it but the E1 was slow on AF in dark water, so I held off, hoping for the replacement pro camera (E3 aka EP-1, whatever, now coming this fall. Would've bought the E1 housing had I known it would be 2 years). Now I have a big trip this october, so it's time to stop waiting. Bought a 410 and housing, didn't like the lag in live view. It's much slower than a point & shoot. Bought a 330 and housing. Found that I couldn't sell the 410 housing at a reasonable price (bought it from japan early at full price, then videodirect got into the game) so I decided to keep it and have a second rig, a pocket macro rig. Recently presented the 410 to my wife as an anniversary present "to both of us" so I didn't have to hide it in the garage anymore.

 

I have to say, the 410 - regardless of it's live view lag - got under my skin in a way the 330 never has. The 330 is an ugly camera (to me), designed around a crazy prism arrangement. The 410 has a lot of character and it's damn fast and responsive. It's always ready to go. It always takes a photo when you press the button. I like it.

 

But it's crippling by 4 year old laptop. 6 megabyte jpegs, 10 mb raw files (that aperture doesn't read yet). Man.

 

on to the quoting. Sorry if anything I write comes across wrong, I'm trying to add my two cents and keep this to a reasonable length, just trying to add my experience to what others have written.

 

When I started searching into why "A" mode was "discontinued" in newer models, as have others, apparently feedback from Oly is that they consider the x-00 and x-10 models (e.g. E300, E500, 410, 510) to be their 'budget' line, the x30 models (E-330) a "prosumer" line, and the E-x (e.g. E-1) the full "pro" line. So the E-330 is actually a slightly older model than the 410/510, but intended to be a 'better' camera and hence the A mode exclusion was more a matter of only migrating B mode "down" to the budget line, as that doesn't require an extra sensor.

....

Now comparing livemode vs. optical VF is probably a bit unfair on the E-330 itself, since the LivemodeA (heretofor LVA) does split off some of the light and makes the viewfinder a bit darker than those on dSLRs that don't have the feature, and I suspect the viewfinder itself is also a bit smaller/less optimized due to the expectation that LVA might be used instead. Some will certainly argue it's a "crutch" preventing you from going all the way to pro dSLR shooter status, but I think of it as a training wheel.

 

I would also say that implementing mode B is easy for oly: all they have to do is use a live-mos CCD, and they can run the CCD full time and have live view. The livemos CCD is low power and doesn't heat up and get noisy (much). So live view mode B is an easy tool to add. Mode A is not, it's a second sensor, it's a half-silvered prism and darker viewfinder, etc etc etc. No way to shoehorn it into the tiny 410/510, too.

 

Since there is no sensor in the optical viewfinder on the the E-410/510 the image in the viewfinder is brighter. Since the mirror needs to move to expose the sensor on the 410/510 in AF, lag time is slightly longer than with the E-330, but still faster than most if not all digicams.

 

I have to disagree with you, Phil. It's slower. I can't use it on moving subjects, or even nudibranchs in surge, wtih AF on. It's fine for UW landscape wide angles, nudibranchs in calm water, emergencies, shoot-and-pray situations, but it's much worse than my 5050. It's over the cliff where I'd say, I can't get used to this, i can't make this work for moving stuff. And this is coming from a guy with a long, long (dare I say succesful) career with the 5050, and old P&S with longer lag than any more recent P&S.

 

Turn AF off, use the AEL button to focus automatically, shoot wide angle or slow subjects, the lag is greatly reduced and is managable.

 

And i find the optical viewfinder perfectly acceptable, as does Phil. I did buy a nice atomic low profile mask and get my prescription in it, though. Actually, I got my computer prescription, -2.75 instead of -3.5, for closer stuff.

 

Although the 330's flash cannot be fully deployed in the Oly housing, it can be partially popped, enough to fool the camera and trigger slave strobes or EV controllers. RogerC has done this.

 

I had to jam the sensor:

http://www.rogercarlsonphotography.com/gal..._pt-e02_strobe/

 

So my interpretation of this is if shooting RAW, the 410 'improved' LVB doesn't really offer much advantage, so the difference between the two cameras comes back down to:

 

(1) if you want to use LVA (for former PnS noobs like me) vs. an OVF ('pros' who got over that crutch long ago

) for NON-stationary subjects, and

 

(2) the incremental improvements in IQ from the newer 410 vs. the 330.

 

Fair statements?

 

OK, it kind of sounds like you said what I think you said per my query above, although neither is perhaps as 'quick' as the competition. Fine by me; still night and day vs. a PnS.

...and apparently the E330 would work with it too per jlyle and RogerC, although it might seem a bit 'kludgey'. So rather than illustrate my ignorance by arguing it's still not really TTL as if I know what that really means in practice (since in 'manual' mode a slaved flash also turns on based on seeing the main flash, which essentially happens as fast as with FO - speed of light difference between water as transmission medium and FO isn't going to result in a significant delay time difference over such a short distance)...I've read a bit about how TTL permits the flash to 'quench' itself early or something based on the metering from the camera, which you won't get with FO or manual (I think?). But maybe my question should be more general:

 

IS there a significant advantage for TTL in underwater photography, especially (for my interests) wide angle? Maybe I should be bidding on all these old D200's I'm seeing on ebay regardless of whether they can be 'upgraded' to the DS200 equivalent!

Actually, don't answer this here unless you want - I don't want to hijack the thread into flash discussions and need to do a search myself.

 

fair statements to me.

 

and my strobe hack is kludgey. I never un-tape my 330, never use it on land. It's for UW only. But I am a fringe lunatic, I love my optical triggers. I can put a strobe in a wreck, I can move strobes from camera to camera on the fly, even underwater.

 

I have always only shot manual, full manual, camera and strobe. I get the impression that TTL is working better and better, and I think it does work well in macro, where the whole frame is about the same distance and there isn't, say, 95% blue water absorbing all strobe and 5% barracuda mirroring strobe back & burning out pixels. I am starting it wish I had TTL on my macro rig. But then, I like having options to try and use, the more the better.

 

The Olympus feels really solid, has LiveView (for what it's worth), a brighter OVF, better kit lenses, cheaper housable flash (FL-36), and has been tested as faster (in some areas) than the others, but has only 3-point AF, a smaller OVF, has limited processing software and the only affordable housing for it is rated to just 40m.

 

Today, I prefer the E-410. So let's say I go out & buy it and tomorrow I discover some small aspect about it that I don't like and find out that the 400D betters that aspect. Will I be sick?

 

I know I shouldn't be, because as has already been said, every one of these cameras is a cracker.

 

I guess the system you're entering into also has to be considered - E-410 is using the new-ish 4/3 system (no shortage of lenses in fairness, at all price-points), while Canon's EF/EF-S is well established and well respected (kit 18-55mm excepted).

 

60% E-410, 40% 400D. I eagerly await the next minute factor to swing me again.

Mark

 

You don't keep the camera forever. This is not a final lifetime decision. Get something and be happy.

 

You do keep the lenses longer than the body. Look carefully at the lenses. I could not be happier with my 7-14mm and my 50mm oly lenses. This is what really binds me to oly.

 

I've never used more than 3 AF points, and I usually only have 1 active, so I **know** what the camera is focusing on. And I move the camera. Put the AF point on the nose or the eye, hold focus, move to compose, take the shot. if I had 30 AF points, would I change the AF point rather than move the camera as I do now? no. Too much trouble.

 

fltekdiver,

 

Don't be put off by the price of the 7-14mm - it's the least favorite of my lenses. I use the 14-54mm the most and my recent trials of the 50mm have sold me on that lens.

 

Jim, post your recent North Carolina trip. What do you think of your 7-14 now? I could tell as soon as I saw the color of your photos what lens you had on.

 

The down side to use of the pop-up flash is that recycle times may not be as fast as the exetrnal strobe. Vinny has also advised me that his digican housing at times fogged from the internal heat caused by the pop-up flash.

 

Use dessicant! If your housing fogs it has moisture in it, and that's bad for your camera. If your housing fogs because it's getting warmer, well, think about that: you've raised the temperature of your housing. going up in temp should make less fog, you are going above the dew point... unless you have packed moisture and humidity into your camera (bad thing!) on previous dives and the heat is now distilling that moisture out of your camera onto your port (good for camera, bad for photos).

 

Use dessicant.

 

And set your strobe to manual 1/64 power, and do a test without your external strobe on. Bet you see no backscatter, even at night. Bet you don't need to block your strobe... in manual. In TTL, different story, you may be doing full dumps from the internal strobe.

 

But if you are using TTL, you may be better off with a wire, not a fiber optic. You stop using your internal strobe and get faster recycling. And with the fiber, you are limited by the power of your internal strobe: if a full dump from your external strobe is 100 microseconds, and your internal strobe can only fire for 25 microseconds, you will never get a dump longer than 25 ms from your external strobe and you're not getting your money's worth. It's maxxing out at 1/4 power (note that I made these times up. I'm not sure what any camera really does, which cameras this may or may not be a problem on.)

 

so just to let ppl know who might be reading this and thinking fogging up all the time

that is relevant to me and maybe other ppl don't have this problem

 

I have never fogged since I started using dessicant. My old 3040, before I used dessicant, got so much moisture in it the camera itself would fog on land. Once that started I never got all the moisture out. It never quit doing it. I sold it.

 

 

hi fltekdiver

 

this is prob gonna sound strange to you but i actually like the idea of using one strobe

 

yes, you get nice depth and contrast. But if you have 2 strobes, you can always turn one down.

 

 

A few more questions for those good enough to help

:

 

Olympus tech helpline are unable to tell me whether I can use two UFL-1 strobes with the E-410 via wireless fibre optics.

 

One - yes. Two? don't know. Anyone on here able to tell me?

 

They're also unable to tell me if the upright (cranked) part of this two-part bracket (

http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/dslr_PTBK-E01.htm

) is available separately to the bottom (flat) bracket.

 

IIUC, the bottom (flat) bracket attaches to the housing, the bottom of the upright (cranked) bracket attaches to this flat bracket, the top of the upright (cranked) bracket attaches to the bottom of the strobe arm(s) (

http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/dslr_PTSA-01.htm

), and the top of the strobe arm attaches to the strobe(s).

 

I've read that using the built-in flash can cause problems with backscatter. It seems some folk blank off the built-in flash. Does this affect the function of the fibre optic triggering of the external strobes?

 

I assume raising the E-410's flash while it's in the housing is the same as top-side: just press the button?

 

How do you put it back down (when the camera's in the housing) for taking shots where you don't want to use flash?

 

If you've blanked off the built-in flash, can it be retracted at all?

 

Won't any external, fibre-optically triggered (wireless or wired) strobes

ALWAYS

fire for every shot if the built-in flash is raised?

 

Or can the built-in flash be defeated via a menu-selection even if it's raised?

 

If it can't be retracted, does the battery drain more quickly?

 

I've also read that the housing can fog up if the built-in flash is raised - how bad does it fog?

 

What fogs up - the housing itself or the glass at the front of the port?

 

Does it render the set-up unuseable?

 

Does a silica gel sachet (or 3 or 5) solve it.

 

Thanks for any replies,

 

Mark

 

Oly is funny about UW support. They are big on UW, but not everyone does it or knows about it.

 

I prefer the athena tray (great hand grips, but heavy) or an ULCS.com tray (great arms & balls) to the oly stuff.

 

You ought to be able to use two, just mount two optic cables. Or actually, one with no cable ought to sync off one with a cable, you may only need one cable, depending on placement, etc. Cables are ususally better.

 

You can turn the strobe off using the menu, through buttons. You can't retract it and don't need to.

 

The coldest part of the housing will fog. In a lexan housing, in cold water, the camera will be warm, the lexan will insulate it, and you'll get condensation on the cold metal buttons first. But it could spread.

 

Silica dessicant solves this. Get the kind that turns blue when good, pink when bad. Recharge it at 225 degrees in a toaster oven. It could also save your camera. Forget about fogging housings, fogging cameras sucks. And cameras can die from moisture:

 

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/aa-07-worked.shtml

 

 

if you use an external strobe it is better to blank the internal , which will reduce backscatter

 

 

except if you are shooting manual strobe, at 1/64. You can test at night with your external off, you'll probably find that you're not lighting backscatter. But that's splitting hairs.

 

I am currently considering getting my wife a 410, she is currently using an CL 350 and I would like to get her into a DSL. What is the battery life with active view on of the 410, how many dives? Also, compared to the CL 350, would the shutter lag be about the same in active view or shorter??

 

I did 3 hour-long dives with mine last weekend, live view mostly off, 314 images. 50 degree water. Not the data point you want, wish I had live view on for you, but it's something.

 

My wife has never before wanted to have an SLR. But I "gave" her "my" 410, oly housing, and athena ring flash, and she was pretty excited about it. It's very manageable. The hand strap on the housing is great.

 

The mode B live view lag on the 410 is longer than it was on my 5050, and the 5050 is longer than the cl350. I don't think you'll be happy with that amount of lag.

 

Phil,

 

Your article is very helpful and informative, thanks. I use a DSRL and my wife uses the SP 350 point and shoot. I would like to get her into using a DSRL also, but she likes the LCD screen for taking her shots. My thinking is that with the 410 she could try the viewfinder and perhaps move away from the LCD approach since it would not have the shutter lag. Is the shutter lag with the 410 about the same as a point and shoot SP 350? What TTL is available for the 410, I currently have the SP 350 hooked up with a Heinrichs-Weikamp TTL using a 5 pin Nikonos with Inon 240. Could this be moved over and used in the 410?

 

thanks,

Elmer

 

same answer, lag is longer. Especially if you have autofocus on. With autofocus on, there is a focus step in with all the mirror flips. Better to go to manual focus so you can prefocus with the AEL button and then take a fast picture. This is just like pushing the button down halfway early. Better, you can also easily do a depth of field check.

 

I'm afraid I just talked a bunch of people out of the 410. I didn't mean to. I really like mine. I just want to be up front about the live view so people have the right expectation. It's certainly ahead of cameras without live view.

Edited August 10, 2007 by RogerC