G9 - Definitive Information

[Timmoranuk 10]

Seeing that there are a few threads discussing the G9 and what lenses, etc. may or may not, I thought that it may be a good idea to start a thread which contains definitive information about what will work, specific issues encountered as differing systems take shape and the solutions and workarounds which are applied.

 

I am presently building a system around an Ikelite housing (http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/5can_g7.html) so you can expect me to post about what I discover during this process.

 

My wish list includes:

 

G9

Ikelite Housing (6147.6)

Ikelite Dual Tray (9523.32)

Inon glass - UWL-100 / Dome Port / Close up lenses

Ultralite or Inon Strobe arms

Inon Strobes - Z-240s

 

Before deciding on the G9, I spent a fair time talking to Steve at Ocean Optics (UK Inon distributor) and Jen at Cameras Underwater (UK Ikelite Distributor) and conducting internet based research.

 

Presently I have the Ikelite housing c/w short port and an Ikelite dual arm tray (http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/oly5050acc.html) both of which I purchased from Cameras Underwater here in the UK. I chose to buy the G9 from an internet source as it is listed at more than £100.00 cheaper that Cameras Underwater. I also bought the optional (surface) w/a (28mm) and telephoto (400mm) adaptors from this source.

 

I assessed the G9 in the Ikelite housing and found that the short port (9305.92), which is essential for additional w/a glass, prevents full travel of the zoom. I don't see this as a problem as I anticipate the zoom facility will be redundant underwater away, perhaps with the exception of when using a close up lens but for this I would probably change to the standard port anyway. When the lens is zoomed fully and hits the short port, the camera seems to go into a error mode and shuts down as a 'fail safe'. The camera will restart seemingly without a problem.

 

With the Inon UWL-100 M67 (http://www.inonamerica.com/products.php?product_id=78&pagenum=2&prodcat=2&subcat=1) installed on the short port, very slight vignetting occurs which will, I am assured, dissappear underwater. In any case, the limited zoom range afforded by the short port will care care of this. Inon AD bayonets are not compatible with the 3" short port so unfortunately G9 users are stuck with 67mm threads.

 

So far, minor problems I have encountered are;

 

1. The Ikelite dual tray mounting kit supplied is incorrect. Ikelite instructions refer to three possible mounting kits (a, b & c) so its worth checking this before leaving the shop or placing the order.

 

2. In hindsight I should have purchased a couple of 'BA-IK base adapters for Ikelite Quick-Grip quick-release socket' which allows the Ikelite tray to be compatable with all 1" ball strobe arm systems.

 

The next chapter of the project is to provide fibre optic connections from the housing to the Inon strobes, which Steve at Ocean Optics tells me is the only way to operate the Inon strobes with TTL as the bulkhead does not provide compatibility. The thought is to use the Ikelite diffuser as a mounting platform for the fibre optics but it looks like a fragile arrangement to me and I may experiment with an alternative mounting.

 

That's all for now.

Edited November 5, 2007 by Timmoranuk

[johnspierce 25]

Thanks, well written post! You are doing the exact setup I plan on going with - I'll be retiring my venerable Oly 5060 and YS-90dx. The key issues I am curious about are:

• How much will the camera have to be zoomed to avoid vignetting with the UWL 100 and the UWL 165. Will the amount zoomed negate most of the wide angle?
  
• The internal macro mode on the G9 is supposedly really good; I'm wondering if the difference between the internal macro and the Inon lenses is worth the cost.
  
• I am also curious how to do the optical connection on the front of the Ikelite housing -- keep us posted.
  
• How fast at say, ISO 100, F8, 1/125 is the auto focus and shutter at depth? My Oly 5060 is not too bad on auto focus, but the shutter response is abysmal.
  
• And lastly, exactly how good is the Inon Z240's proprietary TTL mode? AS good as the TTL provided by Ikelite's own DS-125? The Z240 has a really small footprint which I find desirable, but if the DS-125 does better TTL with this housing/camera combo, it might be worth the extra bulk.
  

Thanks again -- can't wait to see some sample shots.

 

John Pierce

Edited November 4, 2007 by johnspierce

[Timmoranuk 10]

Hi John,

 

How much will the camera have to be zoomed to avoid vignetting with the UWL 100 and the UWL 165. Will the amount zoomed negate most of the wide angle?

 

I only tried the UWL-100 M67 in the shop and recall that the short port allowed about 2/3 to 3/4 zoom. Remember that AD's are not compatible with the Ikelite 3†ports so unfortunately you will have to rethink using the UWL-165. You only option is the dome port for the UWL-100 M67 which will take the angle of view to 130 degrees. I would say that even if the UWL-100 had to be slightly zoomed, there would remain a sufficient w/a advantage over only using the onboard glass.

 

The internal macro mode on the G9 is supposedly really good; I'm wondering if the difference between the internal macro and the Inon lenses is worth the cost.

 

Steve at Ocean Optics recommends the Inon UCL-165 M67 as this will provide 1:1 macro and ‘strobe room’. The 1cm macro focusing on the G9 is probably neither use nor ornament…

 

I am also curious how to do the optical connection on the front of the Ikelite housing -- keep us posted.

 

Me too. I have since become aware of Athena sync converters (http://www.athena-opt.com/english.htm) and have emailed them to ask whether they have a product suitable for the G9 / Z-240. I'll post when known.

 

How fast at say, ISO 100, F8, 1/125 is the auto focus and shutter at depth? My Oly 5060 is not too bad on auto focus, but the shutter response is abysmal.

 

G9 autofocus topside is very quick and I don't expect this will change at depth provided the subject is illuminated with an adequate focusing lamp. I use 1 watt Aquatecs which I diffuse with an opaque 35mm film tub. I expect I'll mount one or even two of these on the Ikelite tray using Ultralite AC-TCS triple clamps (http://www.ulcs.com/) and Ultralite AC-USLm - Mini universal spotting light adapters. Of course, Z-240s are equipped with 2-watt targetting lamps but using these means the strobe has to full-on to the subject and edge lighting will then not be possible.

 

And lastly, exactly how good is the Inon Z240's proprietary TTL mode? AS good as the TTL rpovided by Ikelite's own DS-125? The Z240 has a really small footprint which I find desirable, but if the DS-125 does better TTL with this housing/camera combo, it might be worth the extra bulk.

 

Again, Steve at Ocean Optics assures me that the Z-240 will provide full TTL with the G9 using the fibre optic sync and will remain a relevant strobe if I should ever wish to equip a DSLR. Athena’s response (above) may change my strategy to a sync cable connection. As an air travelling diver and like you, I do not want the weight and bulk penalties of the Ikelite strobes. Here’s hoping the Z-240 delivers…

[Timmoranuk 10]

Athena are a no-no for a TTL sync converter as they only support Olympus cameras. However this (http://www.heinrichsweikamp.net/blitz/indexe.htm) looks promising and I received the following email from Weikamp:

 

"Thanks for your inquiry, our OEM converter http://www.heinrichsweikamp.net/blitz/ettl_e.htm will work with the G9 camera. As far as we know, there is no TTL cable from your Ikelite camera bulkhead to the Inon available, so we recommend taht you use one of our I-N5 bulkheads, http://www.heinrichsweikamp.net/blitz/oly-pt_e.htm and the Sea&Sea Sync cable #17100 (which we do not stock, but you can get this from your local sea and sea dealer)."

 

I have discussed this with Cameras Underwater who informed me that they have stopped distributing Weikamp products as they proved to be unreliable. Apparently, a customer recently attempted to enable TTL on a G7 or G9 without success. Taking this route seems like reinventing a broken wheel to me... To start with, I'll develop the fibre optic sync.

[johnspierce 25]

According to the Ikelite website, the housing comes with an "external diffuser" for use with the internal flash. If it's the white plastic diffuser seen on the W-20 wide angle lens page, it seems that would be a good attachment point for the Inon optical cables?

 

 

JP

[Timmoranuk 10]

According to the Ikelite website, the housing comes with an "external diffuser" for use with the internal flash. If it's the white plastic diffuser seen on the W-20 wide angle lens page, it seems that would be a good attachment point for the Inon optical cables?

 

JP

 

Hello John,

 

I found the supplied diffuser a poor platform for mounting the INON fibre optic cables. I found it to be a very flimsy construction and attaches to the port using a weak spring clip. So, I've applied myself to developing an alternative solution which provides a rigid mount and mask for the camera's flash. Here it is:

 

 

The delrin 'mask' just starts to encircle the port providing a solid attachment which is further improved by velcro 'coins' between the mask and the housing. You'll note that I've provided an attachment for not only the INON cable cap but also a pair of Sea & Sea cables as I intend to use a pair of YS-25 autos for after dark macro work. Sea & Sea 'L' cables should be long enough as I am going to only use 3" or 5" ULCS arms to mount these strobes.

 

I found the INON optical D cable was a little too short when mounting Z-240's for w/a work, primarily because the 'bare end' is only 7" long. I like to clip the first coil to the top of the handles which keeps the cables tidy and helps prevent snagging. The alternative optical D cable L offers a 'bare end' of up to 16" which can be trimmed to suit. The remaining length will easily service 5" and 8" ULCS arms in combination.

 

Take a look at the spotting lamp - a 1 watt LED Aquatec. I'll be mounting two of these; one on each handle. The diffuser is an opaque 35mm film tub which I find attenuates the lamp's beam just enough to prevent subjects from retreating.

 

In the manner which I did on my Sea & Sea DX 8000G, I'll also mount two 'undiffused' Aquatecs underslung from the tray. I have found this arrangement negates the need for a hand held lamp and also provides focusing illumination for close focus wide-angle work in low light conditions, i.e. caverns. Along with the modelling lights on the Z-240's and spotting lamps I guess I'll look like a 747 on final approach...

 

Hope this helps. I'll be back with some more develpments soon.

[tdc 0]

The solid diffuser makes a perfect mount point for the w9 cap set, as that connector will nicely fit between the difuser and the housing. Using an xacto knife it us really easy to score and then trim the difuser down to a more reasonable size. I plan to attach a leash to it though, just to make sure.

 

 

 

 

According to the Ikelite website, the housing comes with an "external diffuser" for use with the internal flash. If it's the white plastic diffuser seen on the W-20 wide angle lens page, it seems that would be a good attachment point for the Inon optical cables?

 

 

JP

[Timmoranuk 10]

Hi tdc,

 

The major problem I found with using the diffuser to mount the W9 cap is that if tension is applied to the fibre optic cables the assembly rotates on the port, thus moving the cap out of line with the camera's flash. The relatively weak spring clip did not help. This is, of course, contingent on the configuration of arms, stobes and cables.

 

Aside from this, I doubt whether the flimsy build of the diffuser will stand up the the 'rough and tumble' of liveaboard / RIB diving, but thats just my humble opinion.

 

My 'mask' serves to address the circumstances I encountered with the configuration of my Ikelite dual tray, 5" and 8" UCLS arms and Z-240's and also obviates the need for IR filters, making the G9 somewhat easier to use topside.

 

I hope this serves to explain my thinking.

Edited November 25, 2007 by Timmoranuk

[tarzana 0]

Hello John,

 

I found the supplied diffuser a poor platform for mounting the INON fibre optic cables. I found it to be a very flimsy construction and attaches to the port using a weak spring clip. So, I've applied myself to developing an alternative solution which provides a rigid mount and mask for the camera's flash. Here it is:

 

 

The delrin 'mask' just starts to encircle the port providing a solid attachment which is further improved by velcro 'coins' between the mask and the housing. You'll note that I've provided an attachment for not only the INON cable cap but also a pair of Sea & Sea cables as I intend to use a pair of YS-25 autos for after dark macro work. Sea & Sea 'L' cables should be long enough as I am going to only use 3" or 5" ULCS arms to mount these strobes.

 

I found the INON optical D cable was a little too short when mounting Z-240's for w/a work, primarily because the 'bare end' is only 7" long. I like to clip the first coil to the top of the handles which keeps the cables tidy and helps prevent snagging. The alternative optical D cable L offers a 'bare end' of up to 16" which can be trimmed to suit. The remaining length will easily service 5" and 8" ULCS arms in combination.

 

Take a look at the spotting lamp - a 1 watt LED Aquatec. I'll be mounting two of these; one on each handle. The diffuser is an opaque 35mm film tub which I find attenuates the lamp's beam just enough to prevent subjects from retreating.

 

In the manner which I did on my Sea & Sea DX 8000G, I'll also mount two 'undiffused' Aquatecs underslung from the tray. I have found this arrangement negates the need for a hand held lamp and also provides focusing illumination for close focus wide-angle work in low light conditions, i.e. caverns. Along with the modelling lights on the Z-240's and spotting lamps I guess I'll look like a 747 on final approach...

 

Hope this helps. I'll be back with some more develpments soon.

 

 

I am in the market for a new Digicam and set that is not a heavy and bulky, has manual settings, TTL capabilities, as little shutter lag as possible, plus good macro capabilities.. had a Nikonos V for 20 years and Oly5050 for awhile but found it bulky as i attached my Nikonos SB flash to it. it was heavy.I looked at the pix you posted with your set up and the tray plus handles look very heavy too. is it possible to get a lighter weight one with different tray and flash?

 

must purchase something soon as i am off to sipadan soon,

tarzana

[Timmoranuk 10]

Hi tazana,

 

You are correct. The Ikelite housing and dual tray are not lightweight but the complete system, including two INON strobes should pack into a carry-on bag. My yardstick carry-on is a Scierra size 1 bag (http://www.scierra.com/?product=238) which hasn't attracted any attention from check-in clerks - yet!!

 

If the G9 is important and weight / size is a serious consideration for you then I'd recommend the Canon OEM housing, a single arm tray (like the Sea and Sea DX tray and DX arm) and an INON or Sea & Sea strobe like the YS-110. There's no real need to get the INON Z-240 unless you are building 'redundancy' into the system for future use with a DSLR. Use fibre optics and you'll get TTL with G9.

 

Thinking about supplimentary w/a glass, it would be good to check whether Sea and Sea / INON / Epoque support the Canon housing before parting with your cash...

 

Such a system should pack into a laptop sized carry on with room to spare.

[tarzana 0]

Hi tazana,

 

You are correct. The Ikelite housing and dual tray are not lightweight but the complete system, including two INON strobes should pack into a carry-on bag. My yardstick carry-on is a Scierra size 1 bag (http://www.scierra.com/?product=238) which hasn't attracted any attention from check-in clerks - yet!!

 

If the G9 is important and weight / size is a serious consideration for you then I'd recommend the Canon OEM housing, a single arm tray (like the Sea and Sea DX tray and DX arm) and an INON or Sea & Sea strobe like the YS-110. There's no real need to get the INON Z-240 unless you are building 'redundancy' into the system for future use with a DSLR. Use fibre optics and you'll get TTL with G9.

 

Thinking about supplimentary w/a glass, it would be good to check whether Sea and Sea / INON / Epoque support the Canon housing before parting with your cash...

 

Such a system should pack into a laptop sized carry on with room to spare.

 

Thank you Timmoranuk... by the time I pack my backpack with my laptop and all the stuff that I do not want in my baggage I already have one bag full and it is not light. In addition many of these airlines in Asia permit one carry-on, so I am wondering how to manage all of the extra. The scierra bag looks great but I would rather have the weight on my back.

 

In further investigating, it looks like my Nikonos flash can be used and it can have TTL capabilities. That is good news. The bad news is this is with the Ikelite tray that is so heavy which I want to avoid-- the excess weight. This would be a great savings for sure to be able to use my strobe. If anyone is using the Canon Housing with the Nikonos Strobes please let me know if the TTL works and if so let me know the other EQP you had to buy for it.

 

This is what I read on another forum about the Canon Housing for the G9 : “Unable to mount wet lenses on housing (Unless modification is made or purchase a special lens holder)†So I am surmising that this means that you cannot change lenses underwater.. correct? Are there special lens holders out there for making this specific modification?

 

Not sure what you meant, Timmoranuk, by “supplementing it with glass†nor using "fiber optics"???? Some new terms for me with UW photography equipment, sorry : /

 

Tarzana

[Timmoranuk 10]

Lens manufacturers often supply adaptors so their 'glass' will attach to the port of an OEM housing. Sea and Sea certainly do and their adaptors also include an attachment socket for a proprietry fibre-optic sync cable, but check before you buy...

 

Sorry about the jargon.

 

Supplimentary glass = add-on wet lenses

Fibre-optics = using fibre optic cables, they syncronise external strobe(s) with the camera's flash

[tarzana 0]

Lens manufacturers often supply adaptors so their 'glass' will attach to the port of an OEM housing. Sea and Sea certainly do and their adaptors also include an attachment socket for a proprietry fibre-optic sync cable, but check before you buy...

 

Sorry about the jargon.

 

Supplimentary glass = add-on wet lenses

Fibre-optics = using fibre optic cables, they syncronise external strobe(s) with the camera's flash

 

thank you for the mini "vocab" lesson. now i have 200 feet of viz in my head will check into the "glass" when deciding on the rig i want.. gracias..tarzana

[Timmoranuk 10]

Well, everything has now come together as I intended.

 

With the short port in place, absolutely no vignetting is apparent at the widest zoom with the UWL-100 M67 and dome port. With the long port in place and the UCL-165 M67 significant vinetting occurs at a the widest zoom setting. Zooming to about 1/4 cures this. The macro capability of the G9, long port and UCL-165 looks excellent. The example image was taken from about 4". Both INON Z-240's (w/a) and Sea & Sea YS-25's (macro) sync flawlessly with their proprietry fibre-optics. Note the supplimentary spotting lamps underslung from the tray. 10 gauge / 3mm aluminium provides the attachment and a couple of delrin saddles secures the Aquatec lamps.

[Timmoranuk 10]

Well, everything has now come together as I intended.

 

With the short port in place, absolutely no vignetting is apparent at the widest zoom with the UWL-100 M67 and dome port. With the long port in place and the UCL-165 M67 significant vignetting occurs at a the widest zoom setting. Zooming to about 1/4 cures this. The macro capability of the G9, long port and UCL-165 looks excellent. The example image was taken from about 4". Both INON Z-240's (w/a) and Sea & Sea YS-25's (macro) sync flawlessly with their proprietry fibre-optics. Note the supplimentary spotting lamps underslung from the tray. 10 gauge / 3mm aluminium provides the attachment and a couple of delrin saddles secures the Aquatec lamps.

 

Edited November 29, 2007 by Timmoranuk

[Islandbound 1]

Tarzana, I am in Okinawa too, PM me with your info sometime!

[Timmoranuk 10]

With the INON UCL-165 M67 and the long port in place on the Ikelite housing these are the focusing ranges and approximate image sizes (width) I found:

 

1. Zoom set at the point where vignetting dissappears (about 1/3rd of zoom range): focus range - 9 to 19 cms, image size - 10.25 cms at 14 cms

2. Max zoom: focus range - 10 to 13 cms, image size - 2.25 cms at 11.5 cms

 

Of course, this data was obtained with the camera, housing and lens 'dry'

 

Based on the above, can anyone enlighten me with some predictive figures which may relate to the INON UCL-330?

 

Thanks and I hope this data is useful.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Timmoranuk

[pakman 0]

For those using the Canon housing, there appears to be DIY way of adding an Inon or any addon lens with a 67mm thread... See the link to this thread on Digidivers

 

http://www.digidiver.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1715

[Timmoranuk 10]

Brilliant!

 

A couple thoughts though. As the G9 Ikelite housing requires a 'short port' to enable compatibility with supplimentray w/a glass, is the same likely to apply to the OEM housing? And, I'm sure step-up rings are not made from marine grade alloy so corrosion may become a factor.

Edited December 3, 2007 by Timmoranuk

[pakman 0]

Timmoranuk, I don't own either a G7 or G9, but from my readings and observations, the OEM housing "port" size is fixed to allow room for full zoom. I would be curious to see if that person had a chance to use this DIY setup with a Wide angle add on lens. I would suspect you would have to zoom in somewhat to avoid vignetting (with both the macro and wide-angle add ons).

[Timmoranuk 10]

Hi Pakman, yes of course OEM housings have a fixed port and that may be their 'undoing' when applying this modification. As I understand it, purpose of the G9 Ikelite short port is not so much to avoid vignetting (though I'm sure it does) but to place the optics in a 'correct' relationship. As an Ikelite owner, I won't be researching this one, but OEM owners will appreciate the 'heads up'.

 

OEM housings are normally well catered for by Sea & Sea who supply push fit adaptors for their Motor Marine I compatible w/a glass - 17mm and 20mm. I used such a setup on my point and shoot Pentax Optio before I circummed to this madness...

Edited December 3, 2007 by Timmoranuk

[james 0]

I doubt that Canon designed their OEM housing with add-on external lenses in mind :-(

 

James

[LyN 0]

Have you seen that? I've found it at a Japanese online shop.

 

Sea&Sea announced some new housings for 2008

at DEMA show.

The metal housong for Canon G9 MDX-G9

M DX meaning machine product and this housing is made from Alminum block by machine tool.

TTL converter is installed in the body and you can use i-TTL with Sea&Sea YS-110 or else and wet cable connection.

The target release date is Jan.2008. the price has not been announced yet.but it is around 140,000yen

 

Some pictures:

 

 

 

It seems it has something similar to a M67 port. I hope so. I think it's a better solution that a port for Sea&Sea lenses. I cannot see ports for strobe fibers, but a Nikonos electrical connection is ok.

 

Anyway, price seems a bit high, specially because the Ike housing seems quite satisfactory and cheaper.

[Timmoranuk 10]

Its good to see third party housing manufacturers (Ikelite and Sea & Sea) responding to the G9, which I think is becoming the 'compact camera of choice' as it offers many of the advantages of a DSLR with few of the disadvantages. I think we're going to see a lot of fine images coming from this camera. All I want now is INON to produce a M67 version of the UFL-165 AD...

[pakman 0]

Oh lookie here... Was browsing www.uwdigitalcamera.com (Yuzo) and he's got a M67 adapter that fits on to the Canon DC21 housing without a mod! Not sure who makes it.

 

Notice the warning about using it with wide angle add-on lenses. I guess you're going to have to zoom out a good amount to avoid vignetting (and probably defeat the purpose of getting the WA add on).

 

http://uwdigitalcamera.com/goods_detail.php?goodsIdx=217

Edited December 3, 2007 by pakman