POTW contest Rules violation

[EstebanTore 0]

This shots are violating rule number 3 of POTW: No wild life harrasment

http://wetpixel.com/competition/index.php?...try&id=4562

http://wetpixel.com/competition/index.php?...try&id=4433

A charged speargun has an only purpose: Fish killing

[craig 0]

There is no wildlife harassment shown in either of these images.

[EstebanTore 0]

There is no wildlife harassment shown in either of these images.

And what for is a charged speargun???

I think wetpixel its for divers not for spearfishers.

Spearfishers are fish killers and this is wildlife harassment.

I will nor post any more images until these photos are erased.

[Lndr 0]

There is no wildlife harassment shown in either of these images.

 

Harrassment should cover all things done to create an image, not just what you can see in the frame!

 

When compared to putting a spearhead through a fish (or a whale) touching, moving, holding pale to insignificance. And discussions on wp don't seem to condone the later.

[craig 0]

There is no wildlife harassment depicted in these images. The guidelines don't elaborate on what constitutes harassment, but there would clearly need to be wildlife involved and there isn't even wildlife in these images.

 

Harassment guidelines are there to discourage depictions of photographer behavior that place stress on wildlife. Advocating good photographer behavior makes sense for an underwater photography site. The photographer taking these images is not a menace and the spearfisherman is a hunter just as a shark would be. We can't dictate how ALL men should act regarding nature but we can influence how fellow photographers impact our reefs.

 

I would say to feel free to discuss whether you believe such images should have rules forbidding them. Those responsible for setting rules may give consideration to that. Claiming that these images already violate existing rules is silly though. Even though I'm a moderator, I'm not speaking for WP in these comments. I'm not involved in the POTW rules.

 

I'm not a spearfishing advocate myself, but I respect that it is a challenging sport when undertaken while freediving (as these images show). On scuba, it disgusts me. It's kind of like the difference between hunting a lion with a stick versus shotgunning maimed birds (and old friends) out a car window. Nevertheless, banning spearfishing images here is unlikely to do much to discourage spearfishing since those guys aren't here. Nothing in Wetpixel's "charter" says that it is for "divers" and not for "spearfishers" though. If someone wants to talk UW photography, he's welcome here.

[james 0]

I concur with Craig - that strictly interpreting the rules, no wildlife is being harassed in order for the photographer to make a pleasing photo composition.

 

For a specific example, if the photo portrayed a sailfish or tuna on the end of a fishing line then that would be disqualified.

 

We support the discussion of the pros and cons to fishing, and specifically spearfishing, and the forums are the place for this type of discussion. The contest voting is done by the members here at Wetpixel. If you feel the photo should not be a winner then please use your vote to express yourself.

 

Sincerely,

James Wiseman

[Giles 1]

I thik Craig made a great point, and I also am against spear fishing and live on an island where it is illegal. However I also admire the sport of freediving which true spear fisherman practice.

 

James .. on your example ... If the Tuna was on the end of a spear gun I think that sort of photo would be different from a photographer harrasing wildlife to get a better photo ... a good conservationist photographer may thrive after such an image to portray reasons against spear fishing.

 

I think this is a great topic for banter about .. not necessarily to change the rules .. but kinda works in with Alex's previous thread about photographing sharks in a manner to create knowledge rather than fear. This in my mind is a very similar topic. or at least is leading that way.

[PRC 2]

Rules need to be written in such a was as to allow some continued interpretation - within limits.

 

Neither of these pictures show harassment as far as I can see - or are we potentially asking James to pull any of his great pool shots as the models have no air supply and are potentially being harassed ?

 

As far as I can see the speargun may be a prop placed for the sole purpose of taking this picture.

 

If you don't like it don't vote for it.

 

Paul C

[EstebanTore 0]

I also admire the sport of freediving but this is very different of spearfishing. Divers must protect the sea.

If wetpixel its suporting spearfishing im very disapointed on it and i will not post any more images here.

 

STOP KILLING FISH

 

BYE.

[EstebanTore 0]

Nothing in Wetpixel's "charter" says that it is for "divers" and not for "spearfishers" though. If someone wants to talk UW photography, he's welcome here.

Header says: WETPIXEL.COM digital imaging for divers

A diver is a person who practices scuba diving or surface supplied diving.

Surface supplied diving refers to divers using equipment supplied with breathing gas using an umbilical cord from the surface.

Scuba diving is the act of swimming underwater while using self-contained breathing apparatus.

Please change header to avoid people get into the wrong place:

WETPIXEL.COM digital imaging for divers and spearfishers

[kriptap 0]

Header says: WETPIXEL.COM digital imaging for divers

A diver is a person who practices scuba diving or surface supplied diving.

Surface supplied diving refers to divers using equipment supplied with breathing gas using an umbilical cord from the surface.

Scuba diving is the act of swimming underwater while using self-contained breathing apparatus.

Please change header to avoid people get into the wrong place:

WETPIXEL.COM digital imaging for divers and spearfishers

 

Your right it says "divers" but we have scuba divers and free divers, both of which are divers, just like the title says. B) quite a few people who free dive only or more than scuba post some great photos here, are we to ban them? no.....

[Wishbone 0]

Hi,

 

Even though I am following this thread with great interest (naturally), I'd refrain from posting anything here until the voting is over... It's because I didn't post the photo to start an argument or to make any statement. It's a photo I like and I'd prefer it to be judged as a photograph.

 

I tried to make Mr. Tore think about the fact that his behavior would actually attract more attention to the photo - didn't work obviously. For the same reason I would refrain from replying to his comments under the photograph either.

 

Safe dives and sorry for stirring the pot!

 

DA PHISH KILLA'

(I'd love to make a t-shirt with that, but I believe it would just make my wife laugh)

[rodriguezfelix 0]

I think you can post any kind of photo on wetpixel, even fish killing photography will be accepted, depends on context.

 

As for the POTW I didn’t saw harassment either...

[gengiant 0]

While I personally looked at the 2 referenced images through the eyes of an underwater photographer (and as such, appreciated the skill it took to create these images), I appreciate the open-mindedness of the moderators in allowing these images to stay in the POTW competion. As was already pointed out, the pictures do not show harrassment of wildlife (even though the probable intent is obvious).

 

I believe that as underwater photographers we tend to be more ocean conservation minded than the general diving population, Esteban Tores' point of view being a perfect example of this. Many of the members on this forum go out of their way to educate the public on the beauty of the ocean realm and what everyone can do to help protect it. Pictures can speak volumes! But it is also the context they are presented in, which frames the story.

 

The POTW contest rules are pretty straight-forward. If you don't like or appreciate a picture - don't vote for it!

 

GG

[loftus 42]

Is it somehow an implied condition of participating in Wetpixel that fish killing / harvesting / eating of any kind is inappropriate?

I am not a spearfisherman myself, but when compared to other methods of catching fish, spearfishing (scuba or otherwise) is surely the least wasteful and most environmentally considerate way to get your fish dinner. In general spearfisherman choose their fish, only spear fish of a minimum size, seasonally and species appropriate, and with zero bycatch. The overall impact of spearfisherman on the environment is surely miniscule compared to any other form of fishing, simply in terms of the number of individuals who participate in the activity, and the number of fish they can realistically harvest on any given day.

Edited November 21, 2007 by loftus

[craig 0]

Is it somehow an implied condition of participating in Wetpixel that fish killing / harvesting / eating of any kind is inappropriate?

 

I think this point needs to be made. Environmental sensitivity is a very subjective thing, and I don't always agree with the extreme positions that some people take (even here on Wetpixel).

 

On my last trip, fish was served daily and the catch was purchased from local villages. Eco-fascists would suggest that the operation should boycott the local fishing industry because they destroy the reefs, but taking such a naive position would ignore so many realities of the actual situation and might ultimately do more harm than good. Of course, it would be ridiculous as well. Humans eat meat. There needs to be balance.

 

Loftus, I agree that what you say can certainly be true of spearfishermen, but it isn't always true. Sometimes thoughtless speargunners on scuba will kill out all the slow reproducing top predators in an area and that's a terrible shame. Nevertheless, I believe that freediving spearfisherman are nearly always as you've described. What they do is simply too difficult to lead to wholesale destruction.

[Lndr 0]

What they do is simply too difficult to lead to wholesale destruction.

 

Sadly, it rarely the case here (geographic not wp). I work in compliance. I see species targeted to oblivion, like the wobbegong shark. Other sessile and territorial species are popular targets. We see spearfishing in the National Park, in Sanctuary Zones, and at grey nurse shark aggregation sites (all against the law). We see endangered species taken, dead fish thrown back so more can be speared, and regular competitions where many individuals bag more fish than they could fit in their freezer. It has an impact.

 

FWIW I think the assumption that spearfishers deserve the same respect as free divers is fundamentally flawed.

 

The sad thing here I see is people saying shut up and put up

Edited November 21, 2007 by Lndr

[EstebanTore 0]

Of course you wont see any wildlife harrasment neither here...

Here in the mediterranean sea speargunners kills everything they see.

Now you can´t see big animals any more.

Do we have to wait until that happens to react?

[loftus 42]

OK, you've changed my thinking. This has not been my experience when observing spearfishers on the boats I've been on.

[craig 0]

Sadly, it rarely the case here (geographic not wp). I work in compliance. I see species targeted to oblivion, like the wobbegong shark. Other sessile and territorial species are popular targets. We see spearfishing in the National Park, in Sanctuary Zones, and at grey nurse shark aggregation sites (all against the law). We see endangered species taken, dead fish thrown back so more can be speared, and regular competitions where many individuals bag more fish than they could fit in their freezer. It has an impact.

 

FWIW I think the assumption that spearfishers deserve the same respect as free divers is fundamentally flawed.

 

The sad thing here I see is people saying shut up and put up

 

They do this while freediving?

 

I don't think it's a case of "shut up and put up", it's a matter of where it's appropriate. I doubt there's many spearfishing advocates here, and having POTW rules that don't specifically ban spearfisherman images does not equate to advocacy or say "shut up and put up". I don't mind charity but I do mind people banging on my car window asking for handouts.

 

Here in the mediterranean sea speargunners kills everything they see.

Now you can´t see big animals any more.

Do we have to wait until that happens to react?

Is complaining about POTW rules your way of reacting to this issue? How do you think that is going to help?

[Giles 1]

The Med is taking HUGE steps in correcting issues they have let exist out of tradition for years.

 

One big example is the banning of the traditional Net entrapment of Blue Fin Tuna (i think i have that right) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtm...30/eatuna30.xml

 

There used to be an annual event where several boats and many fisherman got together to make a mile or more long net and slowly circle it around catching the tuna on a natural migration route.

 

Now that is going to help the fish a lot more than stopping spearfishing. Spearfishing on Scuba should be banned all over it's ridiculously easy and is about as much a spot as tiddly winks. Spearfishing while breath holding however as has been stated is sure controversial but more of a sport and a basic hunting whereby you probably only catch enough for yourself and friends.

[gengiant 0]

I would think that the ongoing destruction of our oceans is much more due to the "Tragedy of the Commons" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons than due to individual spearfishermen (and women) looking to put food on their own plate. With that said, however, I would agree with Lndr that well-intentioned conservation/preservation laws often fail due to lack of enforcement. We see a lot of that here in California. Our 'governator' (Arnold) touts his environmental record by supporting expansion of no-take (and sometimes 'no-access') marine preserves, yet at the same time he reduces the budget of the Department of Fish & Game to the point where we have very few wardens (as a percentage of the area they are in charge of patroling). To boot, the wardens are probably the least-paid game wardens in the entire Country! It's a joke to think that they are effectively controlling poaching! Thankfully, it's rarely spearfishermen anymore that are the poachers. Our biggest issues are abalone and the live-fish industry in near-shore waters (less than 180' deep).

 

Back to the POTW... I would like to know if Esteban or anyone else would condemn the photographer covering the Japanese whaling fleet on their current hunt in order to expose their riddiculous practices? Or conversely, is there a chance that one might say that "Wow! What amazing (and disgusting) pictures! I had no idea what was truly going on on this whaling "expeditions!"

 

GG

[EstebanTore 0]

Is complaining about POTW rules your way of reacting to this issue?

Im not complainig about POTW rules im saying that in these photos there is a POTW rules violation on point 3: Wildlife harrasment.

A charged speargun is only for one thing: kill fish. And to kill a fish is wildlife harrasment here and all over the world.

Other thing is that you don´t want to see it because you support spearfishing.

A nice example: I cant find a photo nature web (for example: www.fotonatura.org) puting in her pages a photo of a bird hunter! Dont you see its not normal????

[EstebanTore 0]

Back to the POTW... I would like to know if Esteban or anyone else would condemn the photographer covering the Japanese whaling fleet on their current hunt in order to expose their riddiculous practices? Or conversely, is there a chance that one might say that "Wow! What amazing (and disgusting) pictures! I had no idea what was truly going on on this whaling "expeditions!"

 

GG

There is a very big difference:

This photographer is doing this job to condemn whaling hunting.

In the spearfisherman photos of POTW there is no condemnation of spearfishing.

They are proud of what they are doing.

[Giles 1]

To reiterate what I think has been said before by some of the moderators.

 

Wildlife harassment I believe was mostly put in the rules to mean that the photographer should not purposely do anything to the environment in order to get his or her shot.

 

Such examples would me taunting puffer fish to blow up, pestering a sea horse to swim from it's hold, disturbing a mimic octopus to get it to swim up and away from the sand ... and yes indeed ... if the photographer was to have speared a fish to get a better photo of it that would be harassment.

 

However this photographer unlikely had a spear gun at hand as they were holding a camera. They used their camera to take a photo of something that was in the water. There is no evidence that this photographer was involved in anything.

 

I am under the impression that a slight language issue has occurred where the wording of the rules is being taken too specifically. It is not a rule against taking photos of harassment underwater .. but a rule against harassing the wildlife to get a better (or not) photo.