How to Improve WP

[MikeVeitch 0]

From a hijack on a different thread...

 

As it has been raised recently, a few folks have mentioned feeling intimidated posting on WP. Would love to hear some input from folks about how they felt when they first joined the site. Was there a feeling of intimidation at all? Did you jump right in and add to discussions? Something in between?

 

Anything that people want to add (except photos from Simon ) are welcome. The more we hear from folks hopefully the better we can make the community.

[zippsy 0]

SPEED!!!!!!

 

(and nothing has intimidated me yet..... other than a few of those "other" pictures)

[loftus 42]

Possibly there could be an area that first timers and beginners and new people registering, could be directed to which surveys what there level of expertise is, what they expect from the site, and a run down of how the site is constructed, who the mods are etc, etc. Included could be a bibliography of stuff to read on different subjects and a more clear breakdown of past threads they should read on different subjects.

There is so much information buried in Wetpixel, but sometimes one has to really drill down to find it.

A more comprehensive and welcoming introductory area. Even some type of mini-mentoring program may be helpful for real beginners who ask for it.

From an economic point of view, I think having access to the reader's interests etc may also be valuable to Eric and the advertisers that support the site.

Edited January 23, 2008 by loftus

[zan 0]

I think I've been here a couple of weeks now, as a new UW photographer and I'm having a great time Mostly just been reading old posts for advice and tips, but when I have posted everyone's been really helpful. There are a few threads that have quite a 'dive club' feel to them (like old friends having a banter\squabble in the pub), but I can't say I thought it was intimidating. there are many worse forums out there than WP if you want to feel stupid and intimidated!

 

I think one of the big problems with any forum is that it's so easy to take people the wrong way when you can only type to communicate. It's not something you can fix, but if people aren't used to forums it might be easy to take things badly. Perhaps everyone joining should be redirected through some youtube comments for a while before coming here? Show them the real dark side of the web

[Kelpfish 15]

Hi Mike,

 

Good thread. I think one of the issues here is for the old farts to have some compunction for new posters. We all must admit that we see over and over many of the same posts from new wetpixelians (does this make a good T-shirt, "I am a Wetpixelian") year after year. So the tendancy for some of us, me included, is to be sarcastic in lieu of repeating what we have already posted over and over for the same repetitive questions, while the real strength is tolerance and empathy. One thing other than a general search that might improve WP is to have a beginners forum "menu" that provides the threads related to a specific topic. For example:

 

1. Strobe use

2. Shutter speeds

3. F-stope

4. White balance

5. Reef/marine life interaction

6. O-ring grease

7. Camera selection

 

etc.. you get the point. New Wetpixelians simply click on one of the links and they have a menu of related threads for that category. Probably a lot of work for Matt Segal, but he is young, tough and smart. I don't claim to have all the "categories" but that could be a good poll opportunity as well.

 

Food for thought.

 

Joe

[rodriguezfelix 0]

One thing other than a general search that might improve WP is to have a beginners forum "menu" that provides the threads related to a specific topic.

 

Or some FAQ section could work too. Maybe a Blog: "I´m a newbie, which camera should I Get?", another good blogs could be related to most common used lens, which diopters which this one or that one, something like that.

[bartusderidder 0]

All of the above are valid points.

 

I think one of the big problems with any forum is that it's so easy to take people the wrong way when you can only type to communicate.

 

Yes, very true, especially if you want to discuss non-technical issues (e.g. post about subject manipulation, topic on conservationism). Words can be/are often read in a different way than they are written and hence it's very easy for a discussion to become heated. It's an exercise in communication.

 

 

When people are looking for information they (or at least I do) hope to find the answers all at once. A link back to an old thread often means you have to read through all of the posts (some of them going off-topic, ) to eventually find the answer.

It could be interesting to have an online Wetpixel Guide of UW Photography (with a pink cover ) as a Work of Reference, that is updated regularly based upon what's discussed in the forum.

It would of course be a tremendous lot of work to summarize all relevant posts (of the past) and re-write them into Chapters.

 

As for welcoming new members to the forum I'm all for a "godfather/mother" (just like at university when as fresh student you get a senior to guide/help you around campus the first couple of weeks). Although maybe not...never got the pretty girls at uni )

[ce4jesus 1]

I had a few reservations when I first came here. I was excited to see a conglomeration of information I needed. For the most part people were patient with the responses and some even expressed a genuine empathy for where I was as a beginner. The reservations were about being on the same forum with some outstanding professionals. You didn't want to be the excited puppy that turned nervous and pee'd all over the rug. I liken it to walking into a bar where there's a large group of people who all seem to know each other. You can either sit back and enjoy the ambiance, or enter the frey.

[rtrski 20]

I probably wasn't as intimidated as I should have been. But hopefully haven't put my hoof in mouth too badly (not like some people...a certain chinchilla comes to mind).

 

But improvement ideas:

 

Maybe subforums under the DSLR housing forum by manufacturer? (Oly, Canon, Nikon, etc).

 

FAQs are always good, especially if you old timers (not intended as a slur) are getting tired of answering the same old, same old. You can justifiably get a bit irate if someone new doesn't bother searching a common question list before asking something for the nth time, but it's also easier to just link them on over so you often won't feel like you're retyping or searching for the last reply to link to.

 

Maybe a way to put little 'tags' in addition to the existing listings beneath a poster's avatar and post count/title to show publication status (snapper only for self; amateur with occasional breakthru; frequent contributor; pro ; "my name is ubiquitous with UW photo how can you not know that already?") ? Would help ce4 and me to know who's feet to piddle on in excitement. I know, none of you are doing it for the status marks, but it would help a noob to see theyre getting a response from someone who does know what they're talking about, hopefully dampening impending flame wars if the reply was a little terse (because of being the same old, same old)... Not all the names are instantly recognizable until someone's gotten around the site a bit.

 

Bios of the moderator(s) perhaps in the About section? (Similar sort of thing to above).

 

Otherwise, I don't see a lot of "need" for improvement. Aside from better door control to keep the riffraff like me where we belong.

[MikeVeitch 0]

i don't want my feet piddled on!!!! I don't own shoes other than flip flops..

 

All good suggestions folks!

[TheRealDrew 0]

Bios of the moderator(s) perhaps in the About section? (Similar sort of thing to above).

 

 

There was a listing of bios at one point but could not find them right now for some reason. But the mods have links to their websites for the most part. Do not know what happened to the bios

[MikeVeitch 0]

on the main forums page at the bottom, you see a link called the moderating team. right above the area where it says who is currently online.. also has todays top posters and overall top posters etc

 

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?act=S...mp;CODE=leaders

[Scuba_SI 39]

i don't want my feet piddled on!!!! I don't own shoes other than flip flops..

 

All good suggestions folks!

 

Eh? Are you that famous?

 

I thought only Alex and Eric had groupies....

[ornate_wrasse 0]

OK, I'll add my two cents to this thread. I think one of the most important things is to feel welcomed. A new poster to wetpixel does not like to feel ignored. One of the things my friend mentioned to me, although not stressed in her post here, is that she posted a photo for critique. Apparently no one replied to her request so she was somewhat put off by wetpixel. I'm glad she's returned to posting on wetpixel, but you can see where I'm going with this.

 

As I post this, I see no replies to edpdiver who has titled their post Newbie Entry in the Image Improvement Center. I can't see a single response to the post and it appears it has been there for about 24 hours! Couldn't one of the moderators respond to edpdiver's post? If edpdiver doesn't get a response, s/he may well be turned off like my friend. I have been toying with the idea of responding and giving my feedback, but I'm certainly no pro and am far less experienced than many posters here.

 

I like the idea that was mentioned before of using blogs. For example, "What camera should I buy?" etc etc etc

 

My two cents for the day,

 

Ellen

[TheRealDrew 0]

I have been toying with the idea of responding and giving my feedback, but I'm certainly no pro and am far less experienced than many posters here.

 

 

FWIW I looked at your photos and you have some nice shots. You have to remember that your opinion also counts, there are many things that go into a photo. Some things appeal to one person and some to another (though of course there are some things considered "proper") And in fact being newer you may actually bring more to the table being closer in time to starting out. In other words, do not undermine or underestimate yourself

[ornate_wrasse 0]

FWIW I looked at your photos and you have some nice shots.

 

And in fact being newer you may actually bring more to the table being closer in time to starting out. In other words, do not undermine or underestimate yourself

 

You have just given me an enormous boost of confidence in my abilities as an uw photographer. The kind words you said about the photos in my gallery really mean a lot to me, especially coming from such an accomplished and experienced uw photographer as yourself. I look at the photos of others and realize I have a long, long way to go to be where I would like to be.

 

I will go ahead and add my thoughts to the photo posted in the Image Improvement forum.

 

There was some talk earlier of having some of the newer less experienced folks becoming moderators. I don't know if I would even be remotely qualified for such a task, but I'm interested in learning more about what it takes to become a moderator. But I really don't know if the remark was made in jest or not.

 

Thanks,

 

Ellen

[Scuba_SI 39]

hehe, it was me who said it i think.

 

I was serious, i think having newer, hungrier photogs as mods will keep the enthusiasm there. It doesn't matter if the advice isn't technically perfect, just so long as it's positive, in good humour and the right direction. But this is all my opinion, which doesn't count for anything here!

 

Just remember that you can still post advice without being a mod. All that mods seem to do is the occasional housework on the threads and post about themselves on the front page

[ornate_wrasse 0]

hehe, it was me who said it i think.

 

I was serious, i think having newer, hungrier photogs as mods will keep the enthusiasm there. It doesn't matter if the advice isn't technically perfect, just so long as it's positive, in good humour and the right direction. But this is all my opinion, which doesn't count for anything here!

 

Just remember that you can still post advice without being a mod. All that mods seem to do is the occasional housework on the threads and post about themselves on the front page

 

'Scuse me for not remembering it was you who said it. I hope I'm forgiven

 

I got brave and posted advice on the photo in question! I felt he richly deserved the feedback he was requesting. After all, he was brave enough to post the image. I didn't have the courage to post any images until I'd been here a long time.

 

As for being a moderator here on Wetpixel, I'll leave that one up to the decision makers and, of course, if there is an opening.

 

Cheers,

 

Ellen

[TheRealDrew 0]

You have just given me an enormous boost of confidence in my abilities as an uw photographer. The kind words you said about the photos in my gallery really mean a lot to me, especially coming from such an accomplished and experienced uw photographer as yourself.

 

I look at the photos of others and realize I have a long, long way to go to be where I would like to be.

 

Thanks for the compliment, but I also feel the same way also about where I would like to be. You take a look at the names here and the photos, talent and accomplishments, and the same on the video side, you are seeing some amazing talent and even the people who are not the big names have an amazing amount of great things to view and see. I think (at least for me) it is always a struggle of where you are and where you want to be. It is not just photos and videos, it is anything. The one thing I have seen over the years is that the really talented people, in any walk of life, are the ones who are there to help and inspire. I cannot tell you how often I figure I should just leave my equipment on the ocean floor to start an artificial reef which would be a more productive use of the equipment than what I do with it, but then I realize even though I am not the best or king of the hill I can get some things I enjoy and so do many others. Just have to temper the constant pursuit of improving with the enjoyment of where you are at at the time. Easier said than done sometimes.

 

And Wetpixel is a site that sets the bar high in the quality. Just take a look at the thread where there was a call for shots from 2007. Amazing depth and breadth of shots, and not the standard photos you will see on many sites where people post.

 

I will go ahead and add my thoughts to the photo posted in the Image Improvement forum.

 

You should. By the process of looking and seeing and commenting you also learn yourself. I find that when I have to show people things, I get as much out of it.

 

There was some talk earlier of having some of the newer less experienced folks becoming moderators. I don't know if I would even be remotely qualified for such a task, but I'm interested in learning more about what it takes to become a moderator. But I really don't know if the remark was made in jest or not.

 

Thanks,

 

Ellen

 

 

Do not recall who mentioned that, but it is not a bad idea.

[brycegroark 0]

I think something simple would be to add information about the photos being submitted in picture of the week - A, SS, ISO, strobes, etc.

 

Sometimes I see a shot and am curious of the exposure settings for the photo - but no can.

 

Bryce

[ornate_wrasse 0]

Just have to temper the constant pursuit of improving with the enjoyment of where you are at at the time. Easier said than done sometimes.

 

So true!

[MikeVeitch 0]

No one should ever feel they are unqualified to give advice or critiquing. A photo is a very subjective thing, what one person loves another person will hate.

 

I think the more people who give advice the better. I often specifically seek out non-photographers/non-divers to give feedback on my photos (especially if i will enter them in a contest) because we can get so narrow minded about our own photos that we don't see the bigger picture.

[John Bantin 101]

The great strength of WP is the fact that anyone who has done underwater photography for long has inevitably developed a sense of humour. It is the very nature of what we do that how ever much we talk ourselves up, there is always the little disaster waiting that brings us back to reality.

 

So new arrivals might bring with them that nervous touchiness often encountered on other forums, but once they have enjoyed a typical clusterf#@k underwater, from swimming about aimlessly with a camera in a housing with its lenscap still in place to that disaster that cannot be named (I mean the f word), that we are all familiar with, they have become one of us!

 

So I would say to any newcomer - welcome to the pathos of underwater photography and if you have no sense of humour, you will either quickly develop one or you're not going to enjoy it!

 

Edited for language by Moderator

[DeanB 19]

If i took anything said to me too seriously i would have a real personality complex

 

We all love a good joke don't we guys.........guys.......GUYS !!!!!!

 

to be honest i haven't learnt squat from anyone as i knew it all before i posted on my first thread but its nice to be able to make out i'm not learned in all things technical and have a laugh at people like Uncle Drew and Sir Mustard when they give advice about Fstops or bus stops or whatever the F@*k they go on about as it obviously makes them feel their giving a little back to the community after taking so much i love you guys... and it does worry me often that sarcasm doesn't travel well as a few of the things i usually come out with after a drunken night spent with ladies who you wouldn't take home to meet your mum might, well, seem insulting...But hey its a lovely day so why spend it in front of a computer screen lets get out there and walk the dog, go get the papers and have a pint down the local while chatting about our timeshare problems with the old man who fought for us in the great war. Its a short life and im not the sort of person who rambles on about any old bollocks just to make out he has friends and that they will waste their time reading his shite because he hasn't had his breakfast yet. Hey joe what you doing with that gun in your hand...

 

Well thanks for this thread its given me a chance to really talk to you all about my experiences in the wide unforgiving world of metal detection

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

[MikeVeitch 0]

you forgot a cheeky little Dean ....... B

 

very upsetting for me