How to Improve WP

[John Bantin 101]

...But hey its a lovely day so why spend it in front of a computer screen lets get out there and walk the dog, go get the papers and have a pint down the local while chatting about our timeshare problems

 

DeanB

 

Nice to see that Dean B has got a handle on time-zones and world geography!

[DeanB 19]

I'm a wealth of information covering just about anything Mr Bantin just don't expect to get the right answers to the chosen qustions...

 

Dive safe

 

Dean(The oracle)B

[Kelpfish 15]

That ain't no gun mister..

 

Joe

[DeanB 19]

North of the equator by about 4 nautical miles..

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

[Steve Williams 0]

I've got to tell you that I was more confused than intimidated when I first joined wetpixel this year. Sometimes you guys get into your "coded" conversations and you have to have read the other posts to be able to even get a glimmer of what the heck your talking about. (See above) Pink scuba police and Simon's personal taste in cloths aside, I love it here. It's a little like watching a car crash in slow motion, I can't pull myself away. Oh yeah, the info on underwater photgraphy is good too.

 

I really came in to talk about the point Ellen brought up earlier.

I see no replies to edpdiver who has titled their post Newbie Entry in the Image Improvement Center. I can't see a single response to the post and it appears it has been there for about 24 hours!

Ellen

 

So I did a little counting. Of the roughly 100 posts in the Photo Gallery between Dec 1st and today, 28 had only 2 responses or less. 10 had no responses, none, zero, nada. To be fair, I was one of them so I may have an overly vested interest in the subject. I can understand why some folks wouldn't feel welcome if they asked for input and didn't get any.

 

I find this small bit of data fascinating. When given the opportunity to show their work, 118 folks posted to the 2007 image of the year thread in the same forum in less than two weeks or so. The traffic is clearly there. What are we supposed to make of this? "It's just human nature, get used to it?" "Photographers love to talk about themselves and their images, looking at others.....,not so much." It would be easy to draw that conclusion but something doesn't feel right about it. I know from my short time here that the vast majority of the folks on Wetpixel care about each other and helping everyone improve. Unlike our landlocked cousins underwater photographers count on each other to be there when we need help. Did we all just collectively get in a bad mood at the same time? Is it the winter blues for the northern folks? Global warming?

 

Steve

Edited January 27, 2008 by williamshs

[Scuba_SI 39]

Hi Steve,

 

Honestly, i don't post there these days because there are so many people with different opinions it can end up becoming more of an argument than constructive critiquing!

 

Also i connect through a cell phone, it get's expensive with images!

 

Why does everyone remember me for the dress these days..... :sigh:

[TheRealDrew 0]

Why does everyone remember me for the dress these days..... :sigh:

 

It worked for Marilyn Monroe, so do not be discouraged, you are in very good company

[ornate_wrasse 0]

Honestly, i don't post there these days because there are so many people with different opinions it can end up becoming more of an argument than constructive critiquing!

 

Why does everyone remember me for the dress these days..... :sigh:

 

Here is a portion of the text from Ground Rules at the Image Improvement Center:

 

"Hello, all. In an effort to foster more constructive criticism, we've created the Image Improvement Center, which will be more actively moderated than the Photo Showcase is"

 

It was originally posted in February 2004, nearly four years ago. If the Image Improvement Center isn't meeting goals for which it was set up, perhaps it's time to revisit the ground rules or just remove it entirely.

 

If lots of other folks as well as Simon are staying away, perhaps some improvements need to be made.

 

And, as far as that dress goes....I guess it's just the image of the hairy chest underneath that dress that attracted my attention

 

Cheers,

 

Ellen

[Guest echeng]

So I did a little counting. Of the roughly 100 posts in the Photo Gallery between Dec 1st and today, 28 had only 2 responses or less. 10 had no responses, none, zero, nada. To be fair, I was one of them so I may have an overly vested interest in the subject. I can understand why some folks wouldn't feel welcome if they asked for input and didn't get any.

Steve -- those are interesting metrics indeed. Personally, I like it when people post images inlined or attached to the forum post. An anecdote about the shot -- what it took to get it, why the poster thinks it's interesting, etc. along with shot details helps to get people interested as well.

 

Here's one that would probably get no responses (i made it up, but I've seen quite a few posts like it):

 

im back from sipidan check out my pictures http://blah.com/blahgallery/

 

Why would anyone respond to something like that, unless it was posted by a regular who is known for taking good shots? An impersonal post begets impersonal (or no) responses.

 

I can totally understand why folks don't feel welcome if they ask for input and didn't get any, and the moderators and I are definitely paying close attention to all of the suggestions here. Keep them coming -- they are very much appreciated.

[Guest echeng]

I'm totally in support of all of you who are excited to help improve Wetpixel. I have been so swamped with keeping the site, the expeditions, and the magazine running that it has been impossible to participate more than superficially in the bulk of the threads here. The current mods have done a great job facilitating certain kinds of conversations, but it's pretty clear we need more!

 

So aside from Ellen (hi, Ellen!), are there others here who are also willing to volunteer to be moderators in charge of keeping fresh blood active?

[loftus 42]

Steve -- those are interesting metrics indeed. Personally, I like it when people post images inlined or attached to the forum post. An anecdote about the shot -- what it took to get it, why the poster thinks it's interesting, etc. along with shot details helps to get people interested as well.

I think this is a good point and a list of criteria possibly formulated by the mods would be helpful for people to use in critiquing.

These would include focus and sharpness, exposure, lighting, colour, composition. One thing that bothers me a little sometimes is that especially for newbies we want to be honest but at the same time encouraging and not come across as too harsh. Personally I often see photographs that are posted that may be technically OK, but my thought is 'What's the point?' These include pics of a bland reefscape or a basic fish ID shot. Encouraging a more creative approach I think is also of value if done appropriately.

Edited January 28, 2008 by loftus

[Scuba_SI 39]

I always try to find the positive in there, if the reefscape is of a poor quality to the folks who've been to SE Asia etc it doesnt mean it's not the most amazing thing the poster has ever photographed.

 

I think it's too easy to say 'oh that negative space would look better with a shark in it' like someone always used to do(forgot their name), in fact i think their last post was don't bother taking pics or something equally reassuring!

 

If the subject is crap but properly exposed and creatively framed then they are doing good IMO, it might be all they have to shoot and they might be very proud of it.

 

I remember my first trip to the red sea diving dead reefs, i had the pictures printed out and put on my wall etc, they are awful but at the time they helped me get enthusiastic. Had i been told they were shit i might not have bothered to go again!

[loftus 42]

Well overall I agree; but I do think trying to add some 'gentle' constructive criticism is helpful, because the object is also hopefully to facilitate continued improvement, so that next time they go out they think about some of the comments and come back with even better shots. I think it's important to make comments that they can hopefully agree with once it's pointed out to them.

Edited January 28, 2008 by loftus

[Scuba_SI 39]

yep, gentle is the key here i think!

 

I just realised i've never posted in there, i guess i should if i'm going to offer other people advice.

[bartusderidder 0]

yep, gentle is the key here i think!

 

With alot of TLC and before you know it we're all wearing pink dresses

 

What I'm trying to say is, gentle is good, but too much of it doesn't get the message across. In my personal experience I've learned more from people that gave me no nonsense feedback (which is not equal to being rude), although sometimes hard to swallow. It has been a motivation to strive to become better.

 

But again, that's just me.

Edited January 28, 2008 by bartusderidder

[Scuba_SI 39]

I agree that with an established member who has already posted in other areas you can be a little sterner, but for newbies i think softly softly is the best way to start, once you engage with them in their thread maybe begin to offer more 'severe' criticism. Anyhoo, each to their own, there is no right way to do it, was just my thoughts on the matter.

 

I mean, Bartus, what about your grainy avatar?

[bartusderidder 0]

...softly softly...

Are you talking about photography...or something else

 

I mean, Bartus, what about your grainy avatar?

 

As our "beloved" D Schwartz "complimented" it looked as if taken with a webcam by a 2nd grader ...but hey, I am just grainy

[TheRealDrew 0]

I mean, Bartus, what about your grainy avatar?

 

 

Ouch, flashbacks hurt I had not thought of that one in awhile.

[bartusderidder 0]

lol

No, honestly, I made my avatar grainy in order for the Ladies (not those in pink dresses) to focus on my inner beauty instead of my unresistable and gorgeous looks

 

B)

[TheRealDrew 0]

lol

No, honestly, I made my avatar grainy in order for the Ladies (not those in pink dresses) to focus on my inner beauty instead of my unresistable and gorgeous looks

 

B)

 

Make sure to check for Adam Apples just in ccase, based on some of the shots I have seen of the pink dress brigade it is very easy to get confused

[loftus 42]

It's not really a grainy avatar, he's just unshaven! Check out his big pic to impress the chicks on his WP bio.

[TheRealDrew 0]

It's not really a grainy avatar, he's just unshaven! Check out his big pic to impress the chicks on his WP bio.

 

 

Oh, please you know nothing about photography. It is obviously grainy and when I buy a camera at some point in the future I will find Bartus and show you that you are wrong. It is simply not acceptable that an avatar is not up to my standards and I cannot believe that you think it is acceptable.

 

 

 

 

[loftus 42]

Oh, please you know nothing about photography.

Did you not read the earlier posts about not discouraging those of us more sensitive types, especially those who wear pink a lot.,

[bartusderidder 0]

Make sure to check for Adam Apples...

 

An Adam's apple is the least I'm worried about :lol: (leaving the room, my back against the wall )

Edited January 28, 2008 by bartusderidder

[TheRealDrew 0]

Did you not read the earlier posts about not discouraging those of us more sensitive types, especially those who wear pink a lot.,

 

JANUARY 28, 2008

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

 

NEW COURSE ANNOUNCED

 

Dive Innovation Programs is pleased to announce they have teamed up with a yet to be detemined diving association to introduce the Dive Innovation Programs - Sensitive Human Interaction Training course for divers.

 

The following press release from Dick Diver, president of Dive Innovation Programs issued a release in connection with the Dive Innovation Programs - Sensitive Human Interaction Training course:

 

"People, in general are insensitive to others and no where else is it more evident than in divers. Truthfully, they seem to be at the bottom of the gene pool. Really, take a look at them. They often come up with snot on their face and joke about urinating in their wet suit, I mean c'mon, do you expect these type of people to have any consideration for the feelings of others? Would you want to sit down to dinner with these types as they guzzle down their thunderbird? I think not.

 

We have seen a virtual explosion of complaints and hurt feelings from a very special group of individuals in the diving community, namely the group that calls themselves the "Pink Ladies, Sort Of" which consist of divers which seem to also be heavily involved in underwater photography or videoograpohy. It is unexplained why there is a correlation between the Pink Ladies and photography though it also unexplained why anyone in their right mind also carries a ton of things all over the world to take photos when they have a ton of dive gear to drag along. Sounds like WAY too much work to me.

 

Anyway we have seen so many courses offered for divers, such a Rescue Diver, Nitrox and CPR/AED Training for divers. and we question the vailidty and necessity for such courses in light of the pressing issue facing divers - sensitvity training.

 

The Dive Innovation Programs - Sensitive Human Interaction Training course was created to address this issue and is for all levels of divers and that every diver carry this card. Of course we want to reach out immediately to those the people who find dart playing kilt wearing men, divers doing strange things with gnomes and the Pink Ladies themselves, since these groups seem to need this more than any other group out there."

 

Mr. Diver had no further commment and is believed to be working on a project for waterproof lady fingers and tea cups for the rumored advanced Dive Innovation Programs - Sensitive Human Interaction Training course that is in development.