HV30/Ike/Raynox 5050-PRO vignettes!

[wydeangle 33]

On returning from Nassau (REEF lionfish expedition) I discovered the Raynox 5050-PRO Ikelite/Canon HV30 combo vignettes at full wide zoom!

 

At first I thought it was the port. Further experimentation at Ikelite's behest resulted in finding that it vignettes without the housing or port. So maybe the step-down ring 43mm -> 37mm is at fault. The camera is 43mm, the lens 37mm.

 

So what now?

 

I'd still like to have a full zoom-through wide angle lens.

 

Would the Century 0ds-hr65-37 be any better? It's still a 37mm. The Canon 43mm won't fit the port.

 

Any ideas? (Bonaire in ten days....)

 

Tom

[Aqua Luminous 0]

Tom,

 

Unfortunately the answer to your problems will cost you! As they always do in the world of underwater gear!!

 

Fist I will give you the history then I will give you the solution. All good things come to those who have PATIENCE and a lot of money helps!!!

 

I have been shooting with the HV20 Ikelite for 8+ months @ 5 days a week for daily DVD's of the Manta dive here in Hawaii and film day and night with it.

 

I first bought the Inon wet mount W/A lens UWL-100 with horrible results. I contacted Ikelite and they didn’t do their homework and used the specs from the Sony HC-7 as reason to believe that the lens would work, and well it doesn’t!

 

So I asked if there was a way to mount a Internal W/A lens behind a dome port to achieve what I was after-- And the answer was NO not at this time but we will look into it.... 3 Months go by and 4 phone conversations with there R&D guru left no hope in site. I was about to sell of my rig when I found two solutions--

 

First was Ikelite said they just came out with a dome port that would solve the problems and an Internal Raynox 5050 would be the glass to use. The Ikelite#9304 Dome port was the solution. I was skeptical to say the least because of two problems I could see #1 All the R&D was done for this to work for the Sony HC-7 not the Canon HV20/30.... Red Flag #1 and second all you have to do is do a search on HV20 forums and loads of people have had Vingetting with the Raynox 5050 on land!! I told the Ikelite boys this and they shinned me on.

 

Next--This was the nail in the coffin for me- GO TO RAYNOX SITE AND LOOK AT THE HV20 AND SEE THE LENS THEY RECOMEND AND YOU WILL FIND NO RAYNOX 5050 FOR THE HV20/30!! This I told to the Ike boys and they said well it works for the Sony cameras... Thanks Guys!! Well now you can see my frustration. So I took matters into my own hands. I bought the Ike #9304 port so I could have it my hands to do my own R&D and then bought loads of stuff from B&H and went to work. If it didn’t work I would sell it all or return what I could.

 

The Results: Starting from the camera working out--If you use a Tiffen 43mm U/V clear filter first screw this on the HV20 on the lens this will give you step one and it has a 43mm thread to add onto-- then screw in a B+W 43mm to 52mm Step-up Ring--step 2 --Then attach the 52mm Raynox DCR 730. --This will just squeeze into the port and it will yield a nice wide angle (not as wide as the 5050) with 60%+ zoom and NO VIGNETTING!!! BUT IT WORKS.

 

Side Notes:

 

If you could find a 52mm W/A lens with the same Specs. As the DCR 730 in regard to outer diameter at the front of lens and total length of lens, with better glass and wider view that would be sweet but I could not find one as most are to wide of diameter or to long to fit in the Ike#9304 dome port.

 

Specs on the Raynox DCR 730-

Magnification

0.7x

 

Rear Mount Diameter

52mm

 

Front Mount Diameter

None

 

Construction, Elements/Groups

2 elements in 2 groups (all surfaces fully coated)

 

Lens Diameter

2.6" (66mm)

 

Length

1.2" (29mm)

 

Weight

4.6 oz (130g)

 

DCR-730 lens broadens an angle of view 37% more than the original camera lens gets. The lens is made of high index optical glass elements which obtain the maximum resolution power of 375 lines/mm at center (MTF30%), It's compatible with whole zoom area and stays in focus. In water it less but this is to be expected.

 

If you leave out the Tiffen 43mm clear you will get Vignette so the trick I have found is get it just far enough away from the camera and with the 52mm wider lens gives you more glass to play with and the results are no soft edges or vignette a full wide angle.

 

Option two is a Mangrove WP-80-IK that makes a Fathom port for the Ikelite. This was my 2nd choice due to cost--430.00EUR and I don’t know about the Vignetting. I talked with them and they sounded legit and they will send it to the US.

 

I hope this helps all HV20 & HV30 Users out there and if anyone has more to add feel free.

 

enjoy

 

-Scott Blain

 

 

http://raynox.co.jp/english/video/hv20/index.htm

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/7270..._Twin_Pack.html

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1162...mm_Step_Up.html

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/4064..._0_7x_Wide.html

 

http://www.aditech-uw.com/product_info.php?products_id=454

 

http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/vwideangle.html

[Aqua Luminous 0]

Some Photos!

 

-Scott

 

[wydeangle 33]

Scott,

 

What an amazing response! If I get to HI remind me I owe you at least a beer

 

I bought the flat port at Glenn Goodrich's (Ikelite) suggestion.

 

Do you think the 730 would work in the flat port (I have the 9304.1 port), or do I need to get the dome?

 

Never mind; I'll study your dimensions and see.

 

I'll get to work on this tomorrow and let you know the result.

 

Regards,

 

Tom

[Aqua Luminous 0]

Tom,

 

I am glad it helped- The Flat port is no good unless you are planning macro! If you attach any Wide angel lens you will have to go with the #9304 dome port. But remember that I could only find the Raynox 730 to work due to size the inside Diameter of the dome port is 68mm wide/inside to inside and by 47mm long/depth-from front of camera to dome glass. Good luck

 

-Scott

Edited May 26, 2008 by Aqua Luminous

[wydeangle 33]

Tom,

 

I am glad it helped- The Flat port is no good unless you are planning macro!

 

SNIP

 

-Scott

 

Scott,

 

Thanks again - it's nice to know that I'm not doing something really dumb; it would appear that Ikelite did that for us

 

I am definitely planning macro - headed for Bonaire next month and Indonesia after that, so I'll keep the flat port and use your experiences to guide me.

 

Thanks again!

 

Tom

[wydeangle 33]

Scott,

 

Possibly an AHA?

 

Check here: dvinfo.net

 

and see if you can use this idea.

 

I removed the mentioned 37-37 adapter and no more vignetting. There is barrel distortion but no vignetting. Until I read that post I didn't realize the plastic adapter was actually two pieces and that one of them could be removed. The risk is the auto lens cover may touch the lens but it seems to work OK for mine.

 

Try it and let me know what you think?

 

Tom

[rcolman 0]

Not sure about the Ikelite housing because I am using an Equinox housing with an HV30. BUT, I recently purchased a Sony VCL -0746B wideangel adapter (0.7x) with a 43-46mm step up ring.

 

It works great behind the Equinox dome port with no vignetting and good shapness into the corners. Best of all, I got mine for $35 (used) on Ebay.

 

Check this option out!!

 

Rick Colman

[wydeangle 33]

Rick,

 

RE: the Sony VCL -0746B wideangle adapter (0.7x) with a 43-46mm step up ring.

 

Is this also a zoom-through lens? Also, what is the OD and length - it may or may not fit into the Ike port...

 

Regards,

 

Tom

[wydeangle 33]

Scott,

 

Further to the above, I made a shim - actually a very thin washer - to fit between the 37 -> 43 mm plastic adapter and the camera. It is about 0.010" thick or maybe a few thousandths more. It successfully prevents the problem of the lens itself interfering with the opening and closing of the camera's lens protector-shutter.

 

By spacing the lens a scootch further away from the camera, all seems well - the camera opens and closes its shutter as it is supposed to, and the vignetting is absent. Even the zoom through is OK. There is still barrel distortion but that may be the WA lens itself: Raynox 5050PRO.

 

So far so good!

 

It should fit fine behind the flat port as it is actually about 1/16" shorter now than when it had the 37/37 adapter in place.

 

QUESTION: (off the topic slightly) Does the dome port reduce or eliminate the barrel distortion?

 

Regards,

 

Tom

 

PS: In place of the shim which took a bit of time and care to make, perhaps a piece of thin bare single-strand copper wire would work to provide the spacing/shim function. Maybe just one wrap would do with a very tiny knot to keep it from falling off 'til it's assembled. Just a thought...

[KenTorrent 0]

Hi HV20 users - I am receiving a Ikelite Housing for my HV 20 soon. It'll be used to capture some footage for a documentary about a shipwreck in Alaska. Wydeangle - your information about vignettes and 5050 were most valuable.

 

Thanks.

 

K

[wydeangle 33]

Ken,

 

I solved the Raynox 5050 PRO adapter problem by buying this: http://www.adorama.com/FLD4337.html

 

which is an Adorama Step-Down Adapter Ring 43mm Lens to 37mm Filter Size

Mfr. Part: SD4337 SKU: FLD4337

 

I did Bonaire this week and got some killer macro of anemone shrimp! The manual WB is a royal pain (thanks Canon for making it a menu selection instead of a button...) but the auto WB was surprisingly good. Didn't get to try "Cloudy" but plan to on the next trip.

 

Tom

 

Hi HV20 users - I am receiving a Ikelite Housing for my HV 20 soon. It'll be used to capture some footage for a documentary about a shipwreck in Alaska. Wydeangle - your information about vignettes and 5050 were most valuable.

 

Thanks.

 

K

[KenTorrent 0]

Ken,

 

I solved the Raynox 5050 PRO adapter problem by buying this: http://www.adorama.com/FLD4337.html

 

which is an Adorama Step-Down Adapter Ring 43mm Lens to 37mm Filter Size

Mfr. Part: SD4337 SKU: FLD4337

 

I did Bonaire this week and got some killer macro of anemone shrimp! The manual WB is a royal pain (thanks Canon for making it a menu selection instead of a button...) but the auto WB was surprisingly good. Didn't get to try "Cloudy" but plan to on the next trip.

 

Tom

 

 

Hi Tom/Wydeangle,

 

Thanks for the heads-up. I will order one of these step-down rings and send it off to AK.

I really appreciate your posts. It'll save me much headache as I will effectively be testing things out on the job. I like the little Canon a lot and am looking forward to see if it can perform as admirably as a Gates & Sony HD combo. we using before (first youtube video):

 

http://www.shipwrecksforkids.com/Torrent_S...ia_Entries.html

 

 

On a side note: getting a Raynox 5050 from B&H, Amazon & Ador. is uniformly difficult as they've seem to run out of stock! Must be rush on Ikelite products and Raynox!!!!

 

Cheers,

 

Ken

Edited June 18, 2008 by KenTorrent

[KenTorrent 0]

An update: Shot on the Torrent using the Raynox 5050 and the adaptor that came with the Raynox. Vignette city! Additionally, there is some sharpness and color loss with the new lens. Overall - the Ikelite and Dome port for the Raynox are adequate. I shot most of the project on a Gates w/ wide angle lens and Sony HD cam which had far better color saturation and sharpness than the Ikelite combo.

 

I will be experimenting the the adaptor from Adorama to take away the vignette.

 

Score for Ikelite and Raynox: 3.5 out of 5 stars

Gates and Sony: 5 out of 5 stars

 

 

Ken

[peterbondi 0]

An update: Shot on the Torrent using the Raynox 5050 and the adaptor that came with the Raynox. Vignette city! Additionally, there is some sharpness and color loss with the new lens. Overall - the Ikelite and Dome port for the Raynox are adequate. I shot most of the project on a Gates w/ wide angle lens and Sony HD cam which had far better color saturation and sharpness than the Ikelite combo.

 

I will be experimenting the the adaptor from Adorama to take away the vignette.

 

Score for Ikelite and Raynox: 3.5 out of 5 stars

Gates and Sony: 5 out of 5 stars

 

 

Ken

 

Hi Ken,

 

I am about to receive an Ikelite housing for my Canon HF 10. Ikelite advised me on going for a flat port to use with the Raynox 5050. I reckon you used the dome port in your HV20/Raynox combo? Which way would you reckon yields the better results picture quality wise - flat or dome?

 

 

Best

PB

[KenTorrent 0]

Hi Ken,

 

I am about to receive an Ikelite housing for my Canon HF 10. Ikelite advised me on going for a flat port to use with the Raynox 5050. I reckon you used the dome port in your HV20/Raynox combo? Which way would you reckon yields the better results picture quality wise - flat or dome?

Best

PB

 

 

I do have the Ike dome port for the HV 20. The HV 20 just manages to nose-into the housing with the Raynox. There is absolutely no way I could get the Raynox combo. into the Ike HV 20 housing if it had a flat port. Personally, all of my video housings have a some type of wide-angle, or dedicated glass optics (beside) a flat port in there for sharpness. In fact, one of your members has a after-market optic for the HV 20 which is very, very intriguing!

 

If there were an issue here - it's that the Raynox add-on isn't quite as sharp as I would like ; the vignetting that occurs both on the surface shooting normally, or underwater with the dome port combo is irritating compared against similar footage shot of a Gates/Sony combo. I have to do some more fiddling around to get it where I want.

 

The Ike housing is fine. It's a little less robust than the aluminum housings I typically use, but I like the retro look of the plastic housing and manual controls. That being said - it is however no Gates housing, nor does it purport to be in a similar league.

[peterbondi 0]

Ken,

 

I hope the 37-37 nature of the Raynox/HF10 fit does away with some of the vignetting problems. I suppose the more compact 37-37 connection is the reason I can fit it in a flat port. I also spoke to Glenn Goodrich at Ikelite and, just like wydeangle, where told to go for the flat port. His reason was the versatility of the flat to do macro vs. a dome that supposedly only gives you 10% extra wa in the HF10/Ikelite/Raynox combo. So not a huge wa loss for retaining the ability to do macro. I don’t feel like spending the extra cash on the dome port though to test side by side. Maybe somebody has done that already for the HV series? I think the HF housings were just shipped so there might not be any experience yet.

 

Wydeangle,

 

did you also get the dome port in the end and did you us it in comparison with your flat port?

 

 

Regards

 

PB

[Ryan 48]

His reason was the versatility of the flat to do macro vs. a dome that supposedly only gives you 10% extra wa in the HF10/Ikelite/Raynox combo.

 

The laws of physics certainly don't support that statement. Refractive magnification caused by flat ports is approximately 4/3, but does vary somewhat based on subject distance. Count on a 33% narrower fov with the flat port, and aberrations in the corners. The dome will be wider, and look better in the corners, but will not allow zoom through.

 

This lens has not been tested on the Canon HF10, but it provides stunningly sharp results on the Sony single chip camcorders. It offers a 90deg fov underwater, and partial zoom through. It is expensive, but good optics are.

 

http://zenunderwater.com/products.php?prodID=1

 

As a disclosure, it is distributed by my company.

[peterbondi 0]

The laws of physics certainly don't support that statement. Refractive magnification caused by flat ports is approximately 4/3, but does vary somewhat based on subject distance. Count on a 33% narrower fov with the flat port, and aberrations in the corners. The dome will be wider, and look better in the corners, but will not allow zoom through.

 

This lens has not been tested on the Canon HF10, but it provides stunningly sharp results on the Sony single chip camcorders. It offers a 90deg fov underwater, and partial zoom through. It is expensive, but good optics are.

 

http://zenunderwater.com/products.php?prodID=1

 

As a disclosure, it is distributed by my company.

 

Ryan,

 

thanks for that info. Do you know of any stills or footage that compares the two solutions?

 

In addition, how does the Zen lens differ from this lens WP80?

 

Best

 

PB

[KenTorrent 0]

Hi Peter,

 

The funny thing is that I spoke to Glenn @ Ike regarding "pro" quality images on the HV 20 and was told to move towards the Ike Dome Port 9304 & Raynox combo. vs. the typical W20 combo. add-on lens. http://www.ikelite.com/web_two/w20lens.html

 

The Ike 9304 is the dome I now have sitting on the Ike housing. A flat port came standard with the housing. It's just a normal piece of flat glass as seen on the standard Ike housing. Since you have a different unit I am sure you'll have different results. I'll be editing some footage soon and will be able to post pics. from the actual dive and the vignette issue. It isn't bad, and can be taken out in Final Cut - but it is an slight eyesore when compared against the Gates & Sony combo. All in all I wish I had known about some of the optical lens solutions provided by after-market innovators! That being said I still have experimenting to do with the Ike.

 

On separate note - I don't use the mirror and see quite well through the standard lens finder.

 

Ken

 

www. shipwrecksforkids.com

Edited July 25, 2008 by KenTorrent

[peterbondi 0]

Hi Peter,

 

The funny thing is that I spoke to Glenn @ Ike regarding "pro" quality images on the HV 20 and was told to move towards the Ike Dome Port 9304 & Raynox combo. vs. the typical W20 combo. add-on lens.

 

He also told me that if the main aim is to go wide all the time to shoot big objects, dive groups etc I should get the dome port as it will deliver the best wa picture. So I suppose this squares with what he told you.

 

I got the same advice on the external lense. From the half dozen retailers I called I also got negative verdicts on the W20,Epoque (same as W20) and Inon from most - every cam/housing combo will deliver different results and it seems people were very pessimistic on my canon set up.

 

Those that thought a wa lens could work on the HF10 housing mostly suggested the Inon. One retailer said I should only consider getting the Mangrove WP80 (a fathom lense) that screws right into the housing instead of the port (so not really wet) as his cutomers had bad experiences with any removable WA, the execption being the Inon + dome, which he couldn't explain. Yet another retailer credibly said that the WP80 also does not work (same issues as the other wet wa) as it is a one-size-fits-all solution and might only work for some combos (sony maybe). He suggested Inon as the least bad option.

 

As an alternative, I have seen posts on the Zen WAVP80 (also fathom lense - the same maybe?) that looks like the WP80 but it is also almost 2.5x as expensive (350 for WP vs ~900 for WAVP). Given that it looks like it has the same dimensions as the WP80 I suppose there is a high chance it will also deliver the same problems for cam/housing combos that are not perfectly suited.

 

 

The Ike 9304 is the dome I now have sitting on the Ike housing. A flat port came standard with the housing. It's just a normal piece of flat glass as seen on the standard Ike housing. Since you have a different unit I am sure you'll have different results.

 

The flat port I ordered is an extension that will fit the Raynox5050, so it also replaces the standard flat port of the Ikelite housing. We will see how it works.

 

Best

 

PB

[KenTorrent 0]

He also told me that if the main aim is to go wide all the time to shoot big objects, dive groups etc I should get the dome port as it will deliver the best wa picture. So I suppose this squares with what he told you.

 

I got the same advice on the external lense. From the half dozen retailers I called I also got negative verdicts on the W20,Epoque (same as W20) and Inon from most - every cam/housing combo will deliver different results and it seems people were very pessimistic on my canon set up.

 

Those that thought a wa lens could work on the HF10 housing mostly suggested the Inon. One retailer said I should only consider getting the Mangrove WP80 (a fathom lense) that screws right into the housing instead of the port (so not really wet) as his cutomers had bad experiences with any removable WA, the execption being the Inon + dome, which he couldn't explain. Yet another retailer credibly said that the WP80 also does not work (same issues as the other wet wa) as it is a one-size-fits-all solution and might only work for some combos (sony maybe). He suggested Inon as the least bad option.

 

As an alternative, I have seen posts on the Zen WAVP80 (also fathom lense - the same maybe?) that looks like the WP80 but it is also almost 2.5x as expensive (350 for WP vs ~900 for WAVP). Given that it looks like it has the same dimensions as the WP80 I suppose there is a high chance it will also deliver the same problems for cam/housing combos that are not perfectly suited.

 

The flat port I ordered is an extension that will fit the Raynox5050, so it also replaces the standard flat port of the Ikelite housing. We will see how it works.

 

Best

 

PB

 

 

Wow. Lots of room for experimentation here. Please let us know how you get on with your new system.

 

I've attached two pics. from the Torrent expedition. It shows the vignettes surrounding newest team member Andrei Nikolaev. While the vignettes can be taken out in Final Cut - it's still a drag. Sorta like driving a nice car with one of those tiny spare tires.

 

Cheers,

 

Ken

[peterbondi 0]

Ikelite is now also selling the WP80. Not sure how it differs from this WP80 except for the price.

 

 

PB

[KenTorrent 0]

Ikelite is now also selling the WP80. Not sure how it differs from this WP80 except for the price.

 

 

PB

 

 

I think one thing Ikelite could do is provide prospective buyers with some still grabs from lens combos. This would prevent buyers from having to guess, or be the guinea pigs for upgrade experimentation.

 

On that note - I did experiment with the adaptor ring from Adorama to see if it made a difference with regards to the vignetting issue with the Raynox 5050-supplied adaptor ring.

 

Results - same, if not a shade more vignetting with the Bower/ Adorama ring. http://www.adorama.com/FLD4337.html

 

More experimentation to follow. In the end, I believe this Canon/Ikelite combo. will be backup for me. For WA Raynox shots I will just edit out the corners in FC.

 

Ken

[C8X 0]

I think one thing Ikelite could do is provide prospective buyers with some still grabs from lens combos. This would prevent buyers from having to guess, or be the guinea pigs for upgrade experimentation.

 

Absolutely.  I emailed Ikelite before purchasing a 6090 housing for HF100 + 9304.1 flat port to accomodate a 5050 PRO, as I was advised that the flat port would allow better macro focus and a longer zoom, the dome port sounds like you are stuck at WA all the time.  I am expecting more severe vingetting at full wide, I guess that is the compromise.  The info on their website was a bit vague, and it took some back and forth emails before I got some more technical details (I'll post what they said when I get to work).  But as an online shopper, it's really hard to spend any money without knowing what you are getting... I'll post lots of examples once I have all the kit.