Ikelite DS 160

[davephdv 0]

Apparently Ikelite has announced an upgrade to the DS 125. Everything the same but power boosted 160.

 

- 160 watt-sec. power

- Built-in 5-watt LED modeling light

- TTL, Full, plus 9 fractional powers

- 1.5 second recycle time

- 225 full power flashes per charge

[acroporas 0]

Sounds great. But it seems to make the DS-200 seem a bit big/bulky and expensive for just an extra 40WS. I wonder if they are planning to upgrade the DS-200 as well.

[ATJ 1]

Sounds very cool. I wonder why they don't have it on their site: http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/newest.html

[davephdv 0]

Announcement says details on website by end of month and limited availability by end of July.

[james 0]

Dang, that sounds pretty good! I just did a whole trip shooting w/ DS125's. I also own DS200's but didn't bring them 'cuz I wanted to give the 125's a fair chance. My conclusion: the wider beam of the 200's makes them a LOT easier to use. But the 125's weren't underpowered - just not as wide.

 

An extra 1/2 stop will make a lot of difference in the power though!

 

Cheers

James

[Islandbound 1]

Is there an upgrade price as well?

[davephdv 0]

James, according to the Ikelite website the 125 and 200 have the same angle of coverage. The 125 has a watt power of 110, the 200 one of 200 and the 160 according to the memo 160.

 

I switched from the old style 200s to the 125s years ago and never regretted it. The new 160 is just icing on the cake.

[ATJ 1]

http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/ss_dig160.html

 

http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/strobe_chart2.html

 

It has a LED modeling light. Nice.

[Lionfish43 0]

No iTTL or eTTL......I'd skip it.

[james 0]

It looks like it does TTL to me with Ikelite housings and compatible cameras - just like the DS125. Did I miss something?

 

Cheers

James

[Lionfish43 0]

It looks like it does TTL to me with Ikelite housings and compatible cameras - just like the DS125. Did I miss something?

 

Cheers

James

Your right. It does TTL in conjunction with an Ikelite housing or adapter but otherwise, no. Not a step forward as far as I'm concerned. I would like to see strobes come out of the dark ages and natively support advanced TTL features. Rather than do that they would rather use it as marketing tool.

[ATJ 1]

Your right. It does TTL in conjunction with an Ikelite housing or adapter but otherwise, no. Not a step forward as far as I'm concerned. I would like to see strobes come out of the dark ages and natively support advanced TTL features. Rather than do that they would rather use it as marketing tool.

His right what?

 

And which make of camera do you think Ikelite should dedicate their strobes to be working natively with? Canon? Nikon? Perhaps they could standardise on Sony or Pentax. That would be really useful.

[Lionfish43 0]

His right what?

 

And which make of camera do you think Ikelite should dedicate their strobes to be working natively with? Canon? Nikon? Perhaps they could standardise on Sony or Pentax. That would be really useful.

Canon and Nikon would be fine. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to make a base strobe model with interchangeable TTL modules for Nikon and Canon. They do it now except they don't build it into the strobe. They either want to sell you an additional gizmo (TTL adapter) or one of their housings. The problem with external TTL adapters is they're not real reliable and if I wanted an Ikelite housing I'd have one.

 

Don't get me wrong, Ikelite makes fine products. I own a couple of their strobes but I don't think they're listening to the consumer. At least not this consumer. All I'm asking for is a reliable TTL strobe with the accuracy of my SB-800. Nikon iTTL has been around for quite a while now.

[ATJ 1]

I see a number of problems with interchangeable TTL modules. The first one would be allowing an interchangeable module while still maintaining a sealed unit and keeping the size of the strobe down. I think those to things are mutually exclusive. The second drawback is you'd need to buy the interchangeable module for each strobe you use. I use 2 x DS-125 so I'd need to buy two modules. Third, you'd may have to have dedicated sync cables depending on which interchangeable module you are using.

 

With the current system where it is built into the housing, everything from bulkhead on the housing is exactly the same regardless of what type of camera you have. The same sync cables are used for Nikon, Canon or whatever. The strobes are the same. Everything is simple and self contained. The logic for converting from the camera circuitry is in the housing which is made specifically for that camera which is the most logical place for it. If the D700 was to introduce some new iTTL feature, that could be built into the D700 housing and nothing else would need to change.

 

Now, if the external TTL adapter is not reliable (in your opinion), why would an interchangeable module be any more reliable?

 

How often have you told Ikelite what you want in a strobe? How many other people have told them the same thing?

[Ryan 48]

The problem with external TTL adapters is they're not real reliable

 

I seldom feel compelled to defend a manufacturer, but this statement is completely contradictory to my experience.

 

I can say with confidence that the Ikelite TTL converter is a reliable product. It provides the most accurate flash exposures of all of the converters I've tested, requires no batteries/charging, and we haven't fielded a single customer email from someone having trouble that wasn't related to a wiring issue in the housing. We have also had no returns of this product from dissatisfied customers.

[Lionfish43 0]

I see a number of problems with interchangeable TTL modules. The first one would be allowing an interchangeable module while still maintaining a sealed unit and keeping the size of the strobe down. I think those to things are mutually exclusive. The second drawback is you'd need to buy the interchangeable module for each strobe you use. I use 2 x DS-125 so I'd need to buy two modules. Third, you'd may have to have dedicated sync cables depending on which interchangeable module you are using.

 

With the current system where it is built into the housing, everything from bulkhead on the housing is exactly the same regardless of what type of camera you have. The same sync cables are used for Nikon, Canon or whatever. The strobes are the same. Everything is simple and self contained. The logic for converting from the camera circuitry is in the housing which is made specifically for that camera which is the most logical place for it. If the D700 was to introduce some new iTTL feature, that could be built into the D700 housing and nothing else would need to change.

 

Now, if the external TTL adapter is not reliable (in your opinion), why would an interchangeable module be any more reliable?

 

How often have you told Ikelite what you want in a strobe? How many other people have told them the same thing?

I don't know why you assume it would be an extra charge for a TTL module but lets say it is. I'd be willing to pay a little premium for a strobe with up to date electonics. And while we're at it lets come up with a new universal cord design. Fiber optic would be nice.

 

It's not just my opinion that external adapters are unreliable. Even if they worked perfectly, they add additional unwanted points of failure.

 

I have expressed my opinion to Ikelite reps and dealers more times than they'd like. If they read this forum, which I know they do, they're aware that a number of people have written about the general poor state of affairs with UW flash photography.

 

You are obviously an Ikelite system user, that's fine, you're perfectly happy with the staus quo. Don't tell me I shouldn't want something better.

Edited July 3, 2008 by Lionfish43

[james 0]

Interesting.

 

I also don't think that putting the TTL converter in the strobe is the best solution. Just look at how many versions of the Sea and Sea converter have been released? Nikon/Canon change the TTL protocols so often - would you want to have to send your strobes in for conversion (which would cost money) each time?

 

Cheers

James

[Lionfish43 0]

Interesting.

 

I also don't think that putting the TTL converter in the strobe is the best solution. Just look at how many versions of the Sea and Sea converter have been released? Nikon/Canon change the TTL protocols so often - would you want to have to send your strobes in for conversion (which would cost money) each time?

 

Cheers

James

my nikon SB800 works great with every recent nikon model so I don't get the statement that the protocol keeps changing. The SB800 has been around for a long time.

[james 0]

Hi Larry,

 

Well if Nikon would make the converter to go into the strobe then that would be another story :-) But they do not - Heinrich+Sea and Sea or Ikelite do - and they had to make a I, II, and III to keep up w/ Nikon - whereas Nikon just made the SB800.

 

Cheers

James

[Lionfish43 0]

Hi Larry,

 

Well if Nikon would make the converter to go into the strobe then that would be another story :-) But they do not - Heinrich+Sea and Sea or Ikelite do - and they had to make a I, II, and III to keep up w/ Nikon - whereas Nikon just made the SB800.

 

Cheers

James

That's what I would really like to see, a new fully compatible UW Nikon flash unit. I guess no one has fully figured out the Nikon protocol.

[craig 0]

Isn't anyone aware of the strobe market outside underwater? There are plenty of Nikon and Canon compatible strobes and manufacturers have figured these protocols out. There are even strobes with modular TTL controllers. It's been done just not by underwater strobe manufacturers.

 

As for some of the points made here:

 

The Ike strobe is not even a sealed unit now, no strobe is, so adding a module doesn't change that. A properly engineered solution wouldn't even require an additional seal.

 

The size of the strobe is related to its weight and adding a TTL control board would not require much extra weight. There's already air inside a strobe.

 

Adding a converter inline in the strobe cable adds failure points that reduce the reliability of the system. That is inarguable. That's not to say inline converters are unreliable (those SnS ones have been), only that they are less reliable.

 

Inline strobe converters are not universal with respect to strobes OR protocols. Adding them inside the strobe removes the strobe dependency.

 

Adding a module for each strobe is no big deal. You own at least one battery for each strobe you use after all. It's a matter of cost. These things don't need to be switched out regularly or even at all. Reconfiguring at the factory isn't unreasonable and is already being done.

 

It is easily conceivable that all protocols could be supported and that only a switch be required. Such a switch would not even require a housing penatration. L&M and Inon have both demonstrated this.

 

A common cable could be used in such an approach but it may not be the cable you already use.

 

Frankly, I don't see why anyone would ask a manufacturer to integrate TTL without asking them to also add optical triggering and make TTL work with that. I would rather have an industry standard for optical than TTL personally.

 

Ikelite hasn't added optical to its strobes so I doubt it's in any rush to implement anyone's specific requests.