You know what I wish . . .

[bruceterrill 0]

Hi Guys,

 

With all this rumor and scuttlebutt floating around about the next series download of new models

from all the camera manufacturers, why can't a couple of the bigger 'units', like Nikon or Canon,

supply us with a camera that can be re-charged externally?

We could therefore take it to the next level and ask our housing manufacturers to supply our new

range of housings with external waterproof 'jacks' and we could then download our images to our

laptops and recharge the cameras without having to open the housing every day/night to retrieve

the data and change the batteries.

I have seen the Hartenberger 'Nano' focus light uses external charging to refresh its batteries...

 

So guys, What do you wish . . .

 

Bruce...

[ATJ 1]

With all this rumor and scuttlebutt floating around about the next series download of new models

from all the camera manufacturers, why can't a couple of the bigger 'units', like Nikon or Canon,

supply us with a camera that can be re-charged externally?

Bruce,

 

I'd be very surprised if we ever saw that happen. You first have to consider that underwater photography is but a very tiny slice of the camera market. Ignoring the value to us UW photographers, where is the benefit to forcing you to tether the camera while recharging, when you can recharge a battery out of the camera while continuing to use the camera (with another battery)? Then there is the cost and potential bulk of having at least part of the charging circuit in the camera itself.

 

Of course, the idea would not be that difficult to implement - we see it in mobile 'phones, now, I just don't think the camera manufacturers would see any demand for such a feature.

 

____________________________________________________________________________________

 

Now.. what I'd like to see is a universal housing. (Note this idea has already been discussed on wetpixel and I think it is a good idea.) Most, if not all, recent models of cameras can be driven with software via a USB cable. So, in theory it would be possible to make a housing that has its own buttons that don't need to line up with the camera controls. The buttons would work with software in the housing to control the camera via the USB cable. When you get a new camera, you only need to upgrade the software.

[TimG 62]

Yeah, I'm with Andrew. Make-specific housings (eg Nikon DSLR) rather than model-specific.

[Alex_Mustard 0]

I do not subscribe to the view that "if it did not flood on the last dive, and I do not open it, then it won't flood on the next dive". I have seen it happen several times.

 

I'd rather open it get the images out and check the o-rings.

 

Also I'd rather have a housing with mechanical controls designed for my camera -rather than a big box of one size fits all. But then I don't upgrade my camera as often as many here do.

 

Alex Spoilsport Mustard!

[ATJ 1]

I'd rather open it get the images out and check the o-rings.

I'm in the same boat (so to speak). I don't have a problem with opening the housing, getting the images (in case it floods next time), putting in a fully charged battery and checking the O rings.

Edited June 26, 2008 by ATJ

[Alex_Mustard 0]

In the end, if you have taken something good, it is probably worth more than the camera - so best to get it safely onto the computer.

[John Bantin 101]

In the end, if you have taken something good, it is probably worth more than the camera - so best to get it safely onto the computer.

 

 

Wireless downloading too?

 

When I'm rich, I'm get to get my own underwater photographer!

[PRC 2]

When I'm rich, I'm get to get my own underwater photographer!

 

As we all know you are quite hideously wealthy - when do I start John?

 

Paul C

[John Bantin 101]

As we all know you are quite hideously wealthy - when do I start John?

 

Paul C

 

That was BEFORE I discovered diving. I have made no real money to speak of in the 16 years since I started doing what I do now full-time!

 

(Ahhh. I can hear your sighs of sympathy.)

Edited June 26, 2008 by John Bantin

[PRC 2]

yea yea yea - just keep believing that you are getting the sympathy vote there John - I can start Monday???

 

Carry your bags ?

 

Paul C

[Dunadin 2]

[...] we could then download our images to our laptops and recharge the cameras without having to open the housing every day/night to retrieve the data [...]

 

I am surprised Matt has not responded yet as he has at least solved the downloading part of your wish. Go to his website (http://www.carbonos.com/reports/usbconnect.htm) to look as his rig. It is for an Ikelite, but you could do the same for any housing (PC or Al).

 

I can see 3 points against recharging in the housing:

1) Standard USB cannot carry enough current (max 0.5A) to recharge a battery in a reasonable time. Of course you could use a special USB cable that connects to a charger instead of the computer and get more power into the camera. But then look at points 2 and 3.

2) The camera would have to include charging electronics in an already pretty tight space. I would not want to rely on external charging intelligence and have no protection whatsoever inside the camera.

3) Temperature. Charging/discharging a battery quickly (within the specs of the battery) causes it to get quite warm. That heat has nowhere to go inside the camera inside the housing (Al housing would be ok, the PC ones are more of a problem).

All that said, I would like to be able to just plug in the camera and recharge it. More for just topside photography rather then then underwater shooting.

[james 0]

Matt probably hasn't responded to this thread yet because he has a real job now - lol. :-)

 

Cheers

James

[Paul Kay 62]

One potentially practical problem is that charging any unit (camera) not specifically designed to be charged in a sealed space might have repercussions regarding offgassing (or at least potential offgassing) and the consequent need for a relief valve as well as clear safety implications. Personally I'm not sure whether this would be such a useful or good idea and don't see the problem with opening up a housing (as Alex has commented on). What would be nice would be if manufacturers would offer varying capacity batteries like Sony do on their video cameras!

[rtrski 20]

My problem with opening the housing isn't the whole concept of 'breaking a seal', although it is another opportunity for failure. (I recognized Alex's point though that not opening it isn't a guarantee against failure - salt crystal growth or sand working its way into a seam over time...) My desire to open it less is more out of concern of drips onto the camera or lens or inside my dome. Seems no matter how 'dry' I think the housing is, there's always still some water down in the gap outside the o-ring and it unerringly pulls the buttered toast trick right onto a camera button or somewhere else that makes me go "arrrgh!"

 

They're working on inductive coupling mechanisms for battery recharging in several consumer electronics fields...something like a plug in mat you put on your desktop and just toss your cell phone, etc. on to recharge in close proximity. Not sure if that would ever work well enough for the larger battery demand of DSLRs, and if it would still work thru a housing. (Guess plastic Ike housings vs. the metal Faraday cages of them "high end" housings might have a benefit after all!! )

[bvanant 191]

My problem with opening the housing isn't the whole concept of 'breaking a seal', although it is another opportunity for failure. (I recognized Alex's point though that not opening it isn't a guarantee against failure - salt crystal growth or sand working its way into a seam over time...) My desire to open it less is more out of concern of drips onto the camera or lens or inside my dome. Seems no matter how 'dry' I think the housing is, there's always still some water down in the gap outside the o-ring and it unerringly pulls the buttered toast trick right onto a camera button or somewhere else that makes me go "arrrgh!"

 

They're working on inductive coupling mechanisms for battery recharging in several consumer electronics fields...something like a plug in mat you put on your desktop and just toss your cell phone, etc. on to recharge in close proximity. Not sure if that would ever work well enough for the larger battery demand of DSLRs, and if it would still work thru a housing. (Guess plastic Ike housings vs. the metal Faraday cages of them "high end" housings might have a benefit after all!! )

30 years ago or so (this getting old really sucks) we made rechargeable pacemakers that had pretty big batteries, you charged them via a vest that you wore, plugged into the wall so the technology is doable, but why would a camera maker want to do it. There aren't enough of us to really worry about I suspect for the high end stuff, maybe for P&S where they make their own housings.

 

Bill

[herbko 0]

Paul is right that recharging batteries in a small enclosed space is a potential hazard. Doing it inductively does not change that.

 

Sure. It's a problem that can be overcome with the right set up and done carefully. However the underwater housing market does not have anywhere near the resources of the medical industry, and the end users are not trained technicians.

 

We are still using electrical cables in a salt water environment to trigger strobes while we've had fiber doing 1 Gigabits/second running around the office for a decade.

[rtrski 20]

Now that would be a wonderful "I wish they'd invent it" product: a hotshoe voltage to optical converter. Ikelite could built it into the iTTL circuitry in their DSLR housings, then the output would just be a couple of LEDs pressed against the inner face of the housing with an external nipple for fitting a fiber optic cable to, instead of a wired thru-bulkhead. The strobes would need to go to a light-detector vs. the same electronic bulkhead, but (as others have repeatedly pointed out, like Phil (tropical1)) you'd be eliminating the saltwater-and-electronics issue entirely as well as eliminating penetrations on every part of the rig, and you wouldn't have to use the camera's internal flash to trigger either. I'd think with the right signal conversion and detector arrangement you could even continue to get TTL. Of course you need fast electroptics so maybe that's what makes it cost-prohibitive right now.

[james 0]

Hehe, come on Herb - we've graduated a bit - we now have fiber-optic subsea control systems in the oil and gas industry, and the telecom industry too :-)

 

Cheers

James

[craig 0]

Now that would be a wonderful "I wish they'd invent it" product: a hotshoe voltage to optical converter.

Inon makes a similar product already without the TTL and I've been advocating that approach for some time. Strobe manufacturers don't seem inclined to support a common fiber connect and without that it will be hard to build momentum.

 

There is an optically triggered multi-strobe TTL protocol already, in fact more than one, that could be adopted for underwater use if the industry ever cared to innovate. Land strobe manufacturers make very sophisticated products but underwater ones can't even figure out a simple connector.

[bvanant 191]

Paul is right that recharging batteries in a small enclosed space is a potential hazard. Doing it inductively does not change that.

 

Sure. It's a problem that can be overcome with the right set up and done carefully. However the underwater housing market does not have anywhere near the resources of the medical industry, and the end users are not trained technicians.

 

Neither unfortunately were the patients. That being said, it is old technology and heat can be controlled depending on how fast you go with the charging. The real answer is that the camera guys don't care about doing it and a retrofit by the housing guys would either never happen or never be trusted by the users.

[bruceterrill 0]

Inon makes a similar product already without the TTL and I've been advocating that approach for some time. Strobe manufacturers don't seem inclined to support a common fiber connect and without that it will be hard to build momentum..

 

Hi Craig,

 

Funny that you should mention that fact...

I remember our esteemed friend Mr Mustad making inquiries here on this forum earlier in the year???

Seem to remember that he was trying to 'guarantee' that the Inons would fire optically and in manual configuration? Hmmm...maybe he was, maybe he wasn't??

What are you up to Alex

 

Bruce...

[Alex_Mustard 0]

I have been using the Inon optical converter a bit. Motivated by the reduced complexity and weight saving of replacing electrical synch cords with fibre optic.

 

It works OK, although I have had a problem with it causing the strobes to fire when the camera goes to sleep. Annoying, but not a big issue.

 

The main aspect that stops me using it more is that it tends to get in the way sticking out of the synch sockets of my Subal. On other housings with synch sockets in different places, would be fine. For example the rabbit ear synch sockets on the Aquatica would be ideal.

 

But I agree with the premise of this thread. It would be much better to have the circuitry wired inside the housing with just a pair of optical connectors sticking out. No leaks and very compact.

 

This time last year on the Wetpixel Shearwater trip I was very impressed with the compactness of Tony Wu's Zillion housing, which had this configuration (not the flash popped up, which is so common on many Japanese market housings). A lady I was diving with in Lembeh recently, Taeko, had a similar setup on her Zillion housing too.

 

When I (finally) get a new camera and housing I think I will get such a system wired in. So it is there as an option for trips when I am using fibre optic drivable strobes.

 

Alex