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loftus

Airbus Cockpit

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Pretty cool but the one bad thing is it's 100% electronically controlled, meaning there is no mechanical way to fly the plane if the electronics stuff up.

Just like that Qantas Air Bus where the pilots lost control of it over Western Australia. They were pushing on the joysticks but nothing was happening.

They still can not find the exact cause and many pilots refuse to fly such planes.

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Pretty cool but the one bad thing is it's 100% electronically controlled, meaning there is no mechanical way to fly the plane if the electronics stuff up.

Just like that Qantas Air Bus where the pilots lost control of it over Western Australia. They were pushing on the joysticks but nothing was happening.

They still can not find the exact cause and many pilots refuse to fly such planes.

That's pretty much all Airbus planes, correct?

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Yes I believe so.

Apparently Qantas has not been using them since and have flown the one that stuffed up over here back to the factory to see if they can work out what went wrong.

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Who thinks they could fly an airplane of that size with all mechanical controls? Lou Ferrigno?

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As I understand it the control surfaces are hydraulically controlled in all big planes. The difference is how the hydraulics are activated, electronically or mechanically, so it's not really an issue of a mechanically controlled plane requiring more muscle power to fly.

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As I understand it the control surfaces are hydraulically controlled in all big planes. The difference is how the hydraulics are activated, electronically or mechanically, so it's not really an issue of a mechanically controlled plane requiring more muscle power to fly.

Sure, assuming electronics are prone to failure while hydraulic systems are not. Ever tried to brake or steer a car without hydraulic assist? Without assist, a pilot can't control a plane with his own strength.

 

The engineering techniques that make hydraulic systems highly available do the same for electronics. Thing is, pilots aren't engineers.

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Sounds like an electronics failure, not hydraulics is what I meant. One would assume that a hydraulics failure would be easy to find.

I wonder if these systems are susceptible to external events like solar flares etc. ?

Edited by loftus

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airbus cockpit - sounds like some kind of gay night club

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Not sure of how the 'puters in the A380 are set up, but as a (much) younger man I used to work on the A320 control systems when the things first hit airline service.

 

Basically, these things typically have three computers at least one of which is different HW using an independently developed SW. The 'puters are connected via a voting logic so if one goes berserk the two others vote it out of the loop. And yes, if two go berserk simultaneously, you're basically stuffed. The voting logic is actually a bit more involving that but in principle.

 

These things are actually pretty complex to set up and there have been multiple accidents and near misses with the A320 series that have been simple pilot errors. I.e. setting the system up to do something they did not intend to do. With that said, however, I think in relation to hours flown they stack pretty well up with their mechanically controlled counterparts.

 

When I took my training on the A320 , we had as a trainer an older French gentlemen who - as they say - had been around. He started the lessons by stating in his pretty thick French accent that: "For years pilots have complained that flight simulators do not behave like real aeroplanes. Finally, we have solved this problem by developing a real aeroplane that behaves like a simulator". Nuff said.

 

timo

Edited by timoma

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airbus cockpit - sounds like some kind of gay night club

 

Does it now Stew ???... and how would you know of these things young fella me lad ???? :uwphotog:

 

Dive safe

 

Dean(love muscle)B

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Does it now Stew ???... and how would you know of these things young fella me lad ???? :uwphotog:

 

Dive safe

 

Dean(love muscle)B

 

oooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOPS ! lol

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Hey Timo

What about the old 747's, can the control rams be manually pumped from the cockpit?

The old concord could, be it abit hard to do but they could land it.

 

Gee these words....pumping...cockpit.... :uwphotog:

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Hey Timo

What about the old 747's, can the control rams be manually pumped from the cockpit?

The old concord could, be it abit hard to do but they could land it.

 

Gee these words....pumping...cockpit.... :uwphotog:

 

Typically in the control systems based on hydraulic servos there's multiple hydraulic systems (usually 3, sometimes 4) and each has a pump in each engine. Should you have a total engine failure (i.e. lose all 4 in a 747), the engines windmilling in flight will still turn the pumps to produce some pressure - provided the engines are still physically attached to the airframe (if not, you have a whole different set of issues in your hands). Additionally, you typically have one or two electric pumps per system feeding from batteries. There's no manual pump.

 

So a total control failure is pretty improbable, although not impossible. Having a complete failure of all hydraulic systems on a 747 (or any other hydraulically controlled plane for that matter) basically leaves you stuffed as there's no way to fly the aeroplane after that.

 

timo

Edited by timoma

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Nice wrap-around.

 

As far as safety, I'd be more concerned with pilot error (the major leading cause of (all) airplane crashes) than those electronics completely failing. The are very good pilots out there, unfortunately nothing is perfect. Though, it doesn't sway me one bit from being excited to get onto the next airplane to the next dive destination! :uwphotog:

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Fly by wire has been around for a long time now. As far as I am aware, there have been zero fatalaties on A330 and A340 aircraft. That's quite an impressive record.

 

My question is about electromagnetic pulse and airliners. Are they protected? Are any using fiberoptic instead of electricity?

 

FYI I saw the A380 at JFK last week. It is a massive airplane. What's this stuff about Qantas not using any FBW? They operate the A380.

 

105305075.jpg

Edited by DesertEagle

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