Spear fisherman kills tiger shark

[TheRealDrew 0]

It's funny how the negative reaction puts them on TV but yet no real journalist grilled them.

 

Seems like there is alot that can be asked.

 

With a tangle of lines hanging off the stern, Kirkconnell couldn't immediately speed over to McInnis. Clasen (nickname: "Ragin' Cajun"), still in the water and with just seconds to act, swam toward his friend, speargun in hand.

 

They had spearguns, and had the knives, but nothing around to cut the lines when the boat was 150' away and their friends were in immediate danger of a shark attack.

 

There were also some differences in that was reported, one account:

 

During the underwater struggle, Clasen speared the shark seven times and even attempted to drown it before finishing it off with a long-blade knife. It wasn't clear how often Clasen had to resurface to breathe. "Once I shot it in the gills I felt a moral obligation to finish the job," he said. "In the end we put a knife in its skull."

 

while another was

 

Every time he approached the fish underwater, it would snap violently to life, until finally he took a deep breath of air, swam down to 40 feet, slid under its belly, and wrestled the shark to the surface by its pectoral fins. "I had to bear-hug it to keep it from biting my head off," Clasen recalls. Kirkconnell threw him a rope, which he lassoed around the shark's tail. They dragged it behind the boat until it drowned.

 

All in all it just seems off....

[kornse 0]

Thanks for adding a perspective from a spearfisher's side, meaning that it looks off to you also.

 

I have never been a fan of hunting, spearfishing etc, And if someone who does pursue it, like you do, is willing to jump into a thread like this (when it is pretty obvious how many are viewing it) is something I consider positive.

 

Now give up spearfishing and take photos

 

Dont think that I could give up niether spearfishing or photography. Both is meditation to me.

 

I just wanted to state that we are not all mindless killers. Most of us only kill what we can eat.

 

There are much worse ways to catch and kill a fish than with a spear.

 

 

Mads

[deepsea 0]

I hate the attention this is getting, especially whilst watching the video clips it is flashing shark attack statistics down the bottom. Just further bad media for sharks.

 

However in one article, and I agree with others here, if you have remorse you don't hack your kill up and have trophies, but this quote from the link below really bugs me

 

"Clasen told the magazine that on the way home from the kill, the friends ate a filet of the shark, sashimi-style. It tasted "terrible," he said."

 

http://news.aol.com/article/shark-video-tr...backlash/381492

 

I would have hoped that they would have given some numbers about sharks killed by humans instead.

[kornse 0]

Just wanted to say that none of my previous replies are hostile and i am sorry if they can be read that way.

 

Mads

[deepsea 0]

Hi Mads

 

I think your input is very valued by Wetpixel members.

 

Hope you stick around

 

Karen

[kornse 0]

Of course i will stick around. Wetpxel is adictive....

 

Thanks Karen

 

 

Mads

[ce4jesus 1]

Where Ce4jesus found that pic (please note NOT to embed pics you do not have permission for) seems to be another shark shot by someone else (like I said, it happens all too often).

 

I guess unauthorized reproductions of CNN video are fine though.

 

 

Sorry for the misinformation, the photo I pulled off was off of Scubaboard and referenced the two guys. The photo came from here and its obvious that this is a different shark.

http://www.merlospearguns.com/fishphotos.html

Edited March 17, 2009 by ce4jesus

[ryan m 0]

Hello Wetpixel community,

 

It is terribly unfortunate that my first post here is under these circumstances. I won't ask you to change your opinions but at least you will know that I am accountable for my actions and I respect you as my peers. I'm not here to make excuses nor to apologize, but to at the least give you a few details. I started scuba diving at age 12, 22 years ago. I have a degree in marine biology from UNC Wilmington and have dove in 25 foreign countries. I was a padi msdt for 10 years and I've had major type II dcs hits twice due to a PFO and don't scuba anymore after 3500 logged dives. I've been filming marine life for 12 years as a hobby and spearfish occasionally because I don't buy fish at restaurants or the grocery store. Below you will find my honest depiction of what has transpired, it is the truth, take it or leave it.

 

- This did happen 9 months ago, and I did put the original footage of the shark in an episode of my podcast. We were in the Gulf to have some fun hunting tuna and create promotional material for a company (please note that the company name nor my podcast were ever mentioned in the interviews). At that time I didn't bring light to the fact that it was killed because it's something we aren't proud of and the animal is very beautiful alive and swimming as seen. That's the type of content I try to capture on camera.

 

- We had been at the same rig for 2 days, we had used chum for the tuna and had of course interacted with Silkies and even a few Hammerheads. When the Tiger appeared it was the end of day 2 and we were done with our fishing activities. There was no bait or struggling fish around. I was filming squid and in my distraction had irresponsibly drifted about 150 feet away from Craig/DJ who were handing guns up to Cam on the boat.

 

- I got 'that' feeling, turned around and saw the shark broadside 15' away. I pressed record as it turned and charged. I flattened out and prepared to hit it's snout with the camera. It turned away less than 1' from camera (elapsed time 7 seconds). I yelled for support, Craig/DJ sprinted over to me as the shark came back in. Floatlines were fouling the props so Cam couldn't operate the boat over to us. The shark began a tight circle to our right, arched back and fins down. Craig was in the middle, I was behind and to his left, DJ behind and to his right with an unloaded gun. It turned in towards DJ with aggressive intent and Craig fired into it's gills (elapsed time 35 seconds). It took 3 more shafts, 'wrestling' it to the surface, tailroping and dragging it backwards, then severing the spine with a knife before it was dead (elapsed time almost 2 hours). Leaving it wounded wasn't an option. DJ and I documented all this because we are camera people and that's what we do.

 

- We unquestionably ate a bite each and then contemplated what to do. The jaws and tail were taken to use for educational purposes, not as trophies. We didn't want to waste the fish completely, I haven't asked Craig where they are but they were intended for a school. The photo of him displaying them was for scale of the size of the shark, he is smiling however, but I feel it is from disbelief/shock not pride, there was no high-fiving taking place. DJ regrets that photo getting out and I'm not sure how it did but it is very misconstrued. I was on the bow of the boat during this saying a prayer for the fish and myself and quietly weeping.

 

- The OUTSIDE article originated from DJ submitting other pics from that trip and was intended to bring light to spearfishing being an ethical practice and clean fishery. Once the shark incident was mentioned in conversation they insisted on running that in the story but promised to portray it accurately and I feel they did. We aren't the first to have killed a shark in self defense (Terry Maas, Roberto Reyes), it's a rare and remorseful risk when spearfishing.

 

- An online news article in the UK stemming from the OUTSIDE one ran last week and got 10 million hits the first day. We didn't know this was happening, and the article was grossly exaggerated and inaccurate. It was twisted into a 'hero' battles man-eater with no regard for the truth. A friend brought it to my attention wednesday afternoon and I thought "uh-oh, please don't let this happen...".

 

- Thursday morning at 6am our phones were exploding from the networks calling to book us to get the story. We really had no choice because the facts had been lost, the story was everywhere and our primary concern was the fallout within the freediving/spearfishing/ocean enthusiast community. If you're reading this then it was for respect for you that we went to New York to face the music. I feel that to have done nothing would be even worse.

 

It's over now and I'm looking forward to getting back to a peaceful life on the coast. It's so unfortunate that all this craziness came from the worst day of diving in my life. And although I truly believe we had no other option, ask myself daily 'why didn't it just keep swimming?' But I also wonder what may have happened if I had continued shooting those squid for another few seconds and not turned around...

I've turned down Discovery and Animal Planet sensation show offers, but have opened discussion with them about me participating in a shark awareness/conservation production as an attempt to atone for the damage done by this press. I don't expect forgiveness but I want it to be known that for me this isn't over. Regardless, I have even more respect for the ocean now than before any of this and I appreciate all of your input and objections because I truly regret what has come of this. Please PM me if anyone would like further information, there is nothing to hide.

 

Ryan McInnis

Edited March 17, 2009 by ryan m

[Steve Williams 0]

Ryan,

Thank you for jumping on here and telling your story. I should have known better than to make a judgement based on what was in the media. The picture posted was pretty damning when posted, without your side of it. I hope you'll stick around Wetpixel and contribute once in a while.

 

Steve

[AndreSmith 15]

- I got 'that' feeling, turned around and saw the shark broadside 15' away. I pressed record as it turned and charged. I flattened out and prepared to hit it's snout with the camera. It turned away less than 1' from camera (elapsed time 7 seconds). I yelled for support, Craig/DJ sprinted over to me as the shark came back in. Floatlines were fouling the props so Cam couldn't operate the boat over to us. The shark began a tight circle to our right, arched back and fins down. Craig was in the middle, I was behind and to his left, DJ behind and to his right with an unloaded gun. It turned in towards DJ with aggressive intent and Craig fired into it's gills (elapsed time 35 seconds). It took 3 more shafts, 'wrestling' it to the surface, tailroping and dragging it backwards, then severing the spine with a knife before it was dead (elapsed time almost 2 hours). Leaving it wounded wasn't an option. DJ and I documented all this because we are camera people and that's what we do.

 

Hi Ryan,

 

Thanks for your side of the story. I wonder if you can elaborate on what happenned after the shark was speared the first time.

[ryan m 0]

I neglected to note that the footage provided was very limited because of the graphic content. I only gave in to their requests hoping it would assist in our defense, it did the opposite. The minimal licensing fees required for handling from DJ's media agent will go to a good cause... I'm open for suggestions.

 

Andre after the first shot the shark dove deep. Craig was rigged for tuna with 2 inline 30 liter floats. The shot was lethal and the fish lethargic once he recovered it to about 50' depth (elapsed time 45 minutes). A second shot was placed in the head from above and we thought it was over. His arms were fatigued so he went down to surface it swimming but upon contact it would come around again thus the multiple follow-up shots. Once finally surfaced it was still alive and every effort we made was to end the struggle, just like we would do for any fish.

 

Unlike the media's depiction, truthfully the only very dangerous time was in the initial interactions. Once wounded the shark only posed a threat to Craig during the recovery, a risk he willfully exposed himself to in order to finish the deed.

 

Ryan

[tdpriest 115]

I wasn't there, Ryan is clearly a brave guy to post after so many negative responses, and we know how the media mangle a story.

 

This sounds like another failure of the free press to go any deeper than the superficial "dog bites man... again!" story.

 

How many thousands of positive shark encounters will be needed to restore the balance?

 

I despair....

 

Tim

 

[Drew 0]

Welcome to WP Ryan, I too wish it were under better circumstances. It is commendable of you to come on here and brave the criticism and give your side of the story. I'd first like to say that my insinuations about the promotional aspects of this incident came from the links from the Nola and other articles to your company website which showed your podcast. It was not due to the reports from the media directly. If my suggestions are offensive, I apologize for that.

Let's be also be realistic about the media. Most of the TV show variety aren't going to do due diligence and they need to sensationalize it. It also doesn't help when the people who killed the shark claim it was attacking them. So obviously the shark is going to be painted the menace.

According to Ryan's account, the crew was packing it in after a day of shooting, which means there was already bait and dead fish in the water earlier. Sharks can detect blood miles away and any splashing about in the water is investigated. That includes humans snorkeling. As a spearo, I'm sure you know the theory that fish know where our eyes are. The tiger was investigating the splashing and scent and circled behind you. I've had many sharks do that to me, it's unnerving especially when you're bumped from behind by a shark. As was shown by that video from that idiotic TV show trying to depict tigersharks as killers, their normal behavior is to bump and 'test' the 'prey' to ascertain risk. It took hours for a fish filled dummy in a neoprene suit to finally get bitten by tiger sharks. That's their normal approach for scavenging food as predation behaviorologists I know have suggested.

I was on a boat full of spearos in the Mozambique Channel before where we had tiger sharks following the boat because of the trail of fish scent being washed overboard constantly from the kills. A few said they'd shoot the shark for merely fighting over the kill. Fortunately, the boat captain ruled if a shark comes, dump the kill and call to be picked up. Ethics is highly subjective. I'm sure that many people would kill if they felt threatened. The self-preservation drive is in all of us. The point is that the sharks are doing their thing in an environment created by chumming and spearfishing. Without the blood scent, the sharks would most likely investigate from a distance.

Considering Ryan's account, I do stand by my opinion that the experience Craig and other spearos like Terry have do not represent the true animal intent, but are the projections of the spearos themselves. Sharks will investigate and test "prey'. It's what they do when they investigate food opportunities so the killing was unnecessary. It is purely conjecture as to what the intentions of the tiger Clasen shot. If Clasen had the experience to use the spears to fend off the shark for a few more minutes, perhaps it would've continued swimming or at least given the rest of the crew time to board the boat. We'll never know now.

There are many on this board who have dived into chummed waters with many tiger sharks mulling around. A few of them are even operators of shark diving. There are no spearguns on such dives. I also offer evidence by my buddy Monty who was the diver in this video (and whose story has gotten better over the years)

The point of this thread shouldn't be to just condemn the killing but to hopefully educate spearos about shark behavior and help prevent anymore incidents like this from happening. The condemnation is unfortunately part of the process ( and I, for one, am part of it, even if in tongue and cheek mode). What Mike L said is very true. If you are going to put yourself in such an environment, you'd better accept the risks of very hard encounters with large predators.

Ironically, the fact you feel you have to defend yourself for killing the shark is already a step in the right direction. 10 years ago, there wouldn't be as many condemnations. The public are becoming more aware of the plight of sharks, at least in the US. That can only be a good thing.

Ryan, I am sorry that this event has had a negative effect on your life. However something positive can come out of this, especially since you aspire to protect sharks. You can use your influence on spearos to show them how sharks react in approach and that with a speargun as a stick to keep the shark at bay, it is not necessary to kill the shark in 'self-defence' except in ambush attack situations (in which case, you'd unlikely see it coming). If you want to talk to predation experts on this, feel free to email me and I'll put you in touch with them. There are quite a few docos discussing this already, including Ralf Kiefner's Beyond Fear.

Again, I'm sorry to welcome you to wetpixel under these circumstances.

 

- We had been at the same rig for 2 days, we had used chum for the tuna and had of course interacted with Silkies and even a few Hammerheads. When the Tiger appeared it was the end of day 2 and we were done with our fishing activities. There was no bait or struggling fish around. I was filming squid and in my distraction had irresponsibly drifted about 150 feet away from Craig/DJ who were handing guns up to Cam on the boat.

 

- I got 'that' feeling, turned around and saw the shark broadside 15' away. I pressed record as it turned and charged. I flattened out and prepared to hit it's snout with the camera. It turned away less than 1' from camera (elapsed time 7 seconds). I yelled for support, Craig/DJ sprinted over to me as the shark came back in. Floatlines were fouling the props so Cam couldn't operate the boat over to us. The shark began a tight circle to our right, arched back and fins down. Craig was in the middle, I was behind and to his left, DJ behind and to his right with an unloaded gun. It turned in towards DJ with aggressive intent and Craig fired into it's gills (elapsed time 35 seconds). It took 3 more shafts, 'wrestling' it to the surface, tailroping and dragging it backwards, then severing the spine with a knife before it was dead (elapsed time almost 2 hours). Leaving it wounded wasn't an option. DJ and I documented all this because we are camera people and that's what we do.

 

- We unquestionably ate a bite each and then contemplated what to do. The jaws and tail were taken to use for educational purposes, not as trophies. We didn't want to waste the fish completely, I haven't asked Craig where they are but they were intended for a school. The photo of him displaying them was for scale of the size of the shark, he is smiling however, but I feel it is from disbelief/shock not pride, there was no high-fiving taking place. DJ regrets that photo getting out and I'm not sure how it did but it is very misconstrued. I was on the bow of the boat during this saying a prayer for the fish and myself and quietly weeping.

 

- The OUTSIDE article originated from DJ submitting other pics from that trip and was intended to bring light to spearfishing being an ethical practice and clean fishery. Once the shark incident was mentioned in conversation they insisted on running that in the story but promised to portray it accurately and I feel they did. We aren't the first to have killed a shark in self defense (Terry Maas, Roberto Reyes), it's a rare and remorseful risk when spearfishing.

 

- An online news article in the UK stemming from the OUTSIDE one ran last week and got 10 million hits the first day. We didn't know this was happening, and the article was grossly exaggerated and inaccurate. It was twisted into a 'hero' battles man-eater with no regard for the truth. A friend brought it to my attention wednesday afternoon and I thought "uh-oh, please don't let this happen...".

 

- Thursday morning at 6am our phones were exploding from the networks calling to book us to get the story. We really had no choice because the facts had been lost, the story was everywhere and our primary concern was the fallout within the freediving/spearfishing/ocean enthusiast community. If you're reading this then it was for respect for you that we went to New York to face the music. I feel that to have done nothing would be even worse.

 

It's over now and I'm looking forward to getting back to a peaceful life on the coast. It's so unfortunate that all this craziness came from the worst day of diving in my life. And although I truly believe we had no other option, ask myself daily 'why didn't it just keep swimming?' But I also wonder what may have happened if I had continued shooting those squid for another few seconds and not turned around...

I've turned down Discovery and Animal Planet sensation show offers, but have opened discussion with them about me participating in a shark awareness/conservation production as an attempt to atone for the damage done by this press. I don't expect forgiveness but I want it to be known that for me this isn't over. Regardless, I have even more respect for the ocean now than before any of this and I appreciate all of your input and objections because I truly regret what has come of this. Please PM me if anyone would like further information, there is nothing to hide.

 

Ryan McInnis

[surfspearo 0]

so its clear, this is D.J. Struntz...the photographer who was in the water...hmmmm...i've been watching these threads for a few days thinking if i wanted to post...as a photojournalist, my job is to document events where-ever, when-ever and what-ever without bias...i find it interesting that photographers document war, famine, and all types of attrocities against other humans without being demonized...if anything, i think its a sad commentary on humans that this story draws such reaction when so many more terrible and wonderful things are taking place in this world. The photos were originally released to Outside magazine for a feature that was to focus on the incredible diving on the oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico...Obviously, the photos of the tiger encounter have quite an impact so they were included by the magazine which touched off this whole thing. The account that ryan gave of the incident is true...there was no chum or dead or dying fish in the water at the time of the encounter...I've been diving with sharks sans speargun for 29 years, and have never had an encounter like this one...if getting into the boat had been an option at the time I would have gladly taken it as would have everyone else involved...Craig had to make a split second decision and it is what it is. He didn't do it for the camera, the are always video cameras in the water when these guys dive so if he had wanted to shoot a shark on film, he could have done it a thousand times over on past trips...he finished it, so he didn't leave a large mortally wounded animal to die over an extended period...Yes there are photos with the jaws...I took those to show scale and if craig is smiling, imagine how much adrenaline was draining from his system at the time...Craig made the best decision he could at the time...Did anyone involved want the sitiuation to end the way it did-NO...If we wanted "fame" it would have gone to press instantly-not 9 months later--the magazine article was supposed to provide an accurate account and had they not included the shark photo, it never would have gone public...at that point, with so much outcry, we felt that a true account of the events needed to be clarified...what kills me is that when I have tried to get photos of shark finning or fisheries bycatch published in the past no one cares, but since this was a one on one encounter, there is outcry...wholesale slaughter seems to be the way to go in our society-no one notices or wants to get involved...I was documenting the cleanest fishery of them all because it is so selective and unfortunetly on this trip, a shark was killed. Hopefully, if the images are as they emotive as they seem to be, it starts a dialogue that both educates spearos and brings focus among the general public on the fate of sharks in the oceans...spearfishing isn't a viable threat to shark populations -commercial overfishing of prey stocks and shark stocks combined with man-made environmental contamination are the real dangers...i would love to see less emotion and more science in this discussion...i spent over 10 years of my life as a dedicated marine research biologist and remain hopeful that my collegues who continue to work day in and day out to protect and conserve our oceans can and will make a difference...

[ryan m 0]

...and baiting in hundreds of sharks to make a dime off tourists IS ethical? There are advertisers on this site, and I bet many forum members that pay or have paid to have someone feed a shark so it's picture could be taken. We know what happens to bears that become conditioned to humans directly or indirectly providing a food source. That's not what we do.

 

We all live in glass houses.

[ce4jesus 1]

Guys,

Thanks for being stand-up guys and for coming on and giving us a first hand account. Since this is a discussion board on the internet, you're going to have diverse opinions. You have to admit that the circumstantial evidence seemed a bit condemning. You've got these macho guys who go after large fish in the gulf and get the occasional trophy tuna and proudly display it on a website. Combine that with the intermittent video and photos and there's a lot of gray area that leads to conjecture. You address having a podcast of the video of the first moments including the decision to spear the shark, would you consider posting that here?

[PRC 2]

Yup, regardless of what any one person thinks you have to get the credit for coming up here and addressing it directly.

 

Paul C

[Drew 0]

DJ and Ryan, I am sorry if you feel members have attacked you wrongly. Based on what information there is out there, their reaction isn't unexpected, a bit quick to judge (as I was guilty of that too). I don't think it's unfair for people to interpret your images and clips though. I think all of you have to know there would be backlash as it were.

Since you bring up chumming shark dives (which btw, I am against doing on a regular basis), you do realize that the Bahamas for example do not sell the fishing rights for the sharks because of the shark tourism? So in a way, the sharks are protecting themselves by providing a show for people. Furthermore, the science of food correlation has yet to be proven conclusively, just as my judgment that Craig Clasen didn't have to shoot the tiger shark. The effect on spearfishing on coastal reef fish population ,however, has been established via scientific and anecdotal evidence. All of this, however, is not the issue at hand.

The point is that there are many people who dive in chum to attract big sharks for profit. Their knowledge of shark behavior is better than most others. Andre Hartman, for instance, is a spearo who doesn't even load his speargun when a few great whites are around because his experience both as a spearo and a shark dive guide gives him insights to shark behavior. It allows him to teach spearos respect for sharks and how to deal with them, by using the spear gun to fend off a shark.

This is something I'm hoping spearos and the broader population understand, and your incident can be the additional catalyst toward that end. So I hope you don't think this is thread is about attacking your character (although I admit the tone of some of the posts (including mine) are a bit harsh). I think it's about lamenting the loss of yet another tiger shark, which in anecdotal evidence, was unnecessary. It is also to help promote better understanding of shark predation so another killing will not be necessary.

It would awesome if you posted the video in it's entirety, especially the aggression from the tiger shark. I know a few scientists who'd love to see that.

Again, I commend that both of you come on without subterfuge to face the mob (so to speak). However, you have to accept that there will be some negative comments regardless.

[Shaff 0]

Ryan, DJ..it's great that you guys have wrote what really happened. Shows that the media can get all these stories messed in anyway they want eh? Nice of you to come on here and explain to all the members everything.

 

Cheers

[ryan m 0]

Please reference numbered items below. I wanted this discussion to end but I, much like many here, must inquire further when I disagree with something.

1. Since you bring up chumming shark dives (which btw, I am against doing on a regular basis), you do realize that the Bahamas for example do not sell the fishing rights for the sharks because of the shark tourism? So in a way, the sharks are protecting themselves by providing a show for people.

1. So am I to surmise that these Bahamian sharks are not unlike circus or zoo animals? Maybe we can personify them like chimps or elephants with little outfits and cute names.

 

2. Furthermore, the science of food correlation has yet to be proven conclusively, just as my judgment that Craig Clasen didn't have to shoot the tiger shark. The effect on spearfishing on coastal reef fish population ,however, has been established via scientific and anecdotal evidence. All of this, however, is not the issue at hand.

2. I would like to see this scientific evidence, especially in reference to any other harvesting technique. The anecdotal evidence however, being the antonym of scientific, will not be necessary as it will only further contradict whatever argument it is you are attempting to make here. If it's that elasmobranchs in general do not base behavior around food sources, then why do Mantas gather around spotlights in Kona, stingrays knock masks off divers at Stingray City, and Tiger sharks follow pregnant whales only for the afterbirth? Perhaps these things are just anecdotal.

 

3. The point is that there are many people who dive in chum to attract big sharks for profit. Their knowledge of shark behavior is better than most others. Andre Hartman, for instance, is a spearo who doesn't even load his speargun when a few great whites are around because his experience both as a spearo and a shark dive guide gives him insights to shark behavior. It allows him to teach spearos respect for sharks and how to deal with them, by using the spear gun to fend off a shark.

I'll sum up the knowledge gained from diving with chummed animals in one sentence: Provide food source, sharks arrive, sharks don't attack people. Revolutionary! Opportunistic and specialized predators alike will always take an easier meal and avoid conflict, especially in these types of situations. Why? Because the humans have induced scavenging behavior, the fish are not hunting. Mimic a prey species if you want to see a shark acting like a shark.

 

4. So I hope you don't think this is thread is about attacking your character (although I admit the tone of some of the posts (including mine) are a bit harsh). I think it's about lamenting the loss of yet another tiger shark, which in anecdotal evidence, was unnecessary. It is also to help promote better understanding of shark predation so another killing will not be necessary.

4. This makes absolutely no sense at all. This thread isn't about our character but you've called me a liar? I'm not even mad, I'm amazed.

 

5.It would awesome if you posted the video in it's entirety, especially the aggression from the tiger shark. I know a few scientists who'd love to see that.

Again, I commend that both of you come on without subterfuge to face the mob (so to speak). However, you have to accept that there will be some negative comments regardless.

5. Awesome??? Really? Is that some sort of sick joke? I didn't release the impact shots to the media but still get labelled as a fame seeker and now you want me to screen it HERE?!? To what end? There are 12 people that have seen that footage. Am I hiding something or attempting to save the last shred of decency toward that shark... whatever you decide it doesn't matter to me anymore. Tell your scientists we would be happy to discuss the details in depth, DJ and I are scientists also so there will be no language barrier.

 

Shawn if you don't want me to post here anymore I understand, but I'm not going to 'hug-it-out' with each and every person that wants to take a free shot at me (Drew you happen to be the martyr on this forum, nothing personal). I've made my statement about the event, if you want to talk shark behavior I'll type until your eyes fall out from reading so much.

 

Ryan

Edited March 18, 2009 by ryan m

[NWDiver 42]

Deleted previous post after reading above. Will say if the parties want to put things to rest they should release the video leading up to the initial shot.

Edited March 18, 2009 by NWDiver

[danielandrewclem 3]

....if the parties want to put things to rest they should release the video leading up to the initial shot.

 

Right, because obviously if he posts the entire footage, nobody would have anything more to say about the matter. Sure...

[Drew 0]

Ryan

It's obvious someone else has written you in private. Since I made several statements regarding to the incident, I thought I'd deal with it in the open in fairness to you and others.

I don't think I'm being argumentative for the sake of arguing. I appreciate both DJ and your prescence in the forum. I'm sure you're sick of defending Craig Clasen's action and being party to it. So far, the contentious issue seems to be that you believed you were in mortal danger and the kill was justified. I disagree and it seems your conclusion about chumming sharks suports this. The sharks don't see us on the menu but are curious and will test if we are edible, this is especially true for the vacuum eaters like tigers. If it were an ambush attack, you'd be talking about the bite vs this video and the media

I'm not calling you a liar, but my opinion is you were mistaken. I wasn't there but I've been in the ocean with tiger sharks (chummed a few times and much more often in unchummed situations) and my anecdotal observations differ from your conclusions. Hence my opinion on the matter. If saying you were mistaken is offending to you, I'm sorry, but I won't change my mind based on the evidence. The shooting, to me, was unnecessary and there were 3 of you there, with spearguns which could prod off the shark. Your own statement on shark reaction to chum supports my contention. I am not attempting to ostracize you from this community. You are allowed to have your own opinion, as am I. WP welcomes all dialogue and differing opinions.

As to spearfishing and its effects, I'll refrain from going further off-topic in this thread. There is another discussion re: spearfishing in the following link:

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21835

Feel free to discuss it there. I linked a couple of reports and there are more on google if you want to read them and discuss their merits.

To end, the requests to post the video was a sincere request to see the behavior of the shark and discuss. I'm not asking you to justify your actions but to learn from the video. If this incident can bring out better understanding of tiger sharks and avoid another shooting, then the video and your influence in the spearo industry can be of massive influence. I welcome your participation in the forums.

[ryan m 0]

Wow, thanks for the permission Drew. You still aren't using anecdotal right. And the chumming references were not intended to justify anything, only to level the playing field. I'm going to go further here than I have for any other forum/blog.

 

When I was filming the squid they were playing with one another and hiding around my legs. I was rolling around at the surface trying to get an angle to film. This took place for over 3 minutes, I was enthralled with their beauty and behavior.

 

Sea turtles come to the surface, breathe and warm up, maybe make a splash or two, then dive again. I was wearing camo trunks and a mimetic shirt that may have resembled a turtle carapace. Tigers have an appetite for turtles, no anecdote there, just science.

 

With my actions and appearance, a Tiger shark could mistake me for a natural prey item. I don't know how long it was there before I turned around, and I'm surprised it did not capitalize on the opportunity for a meal earlier. But when I made eye contact and busted the stalk, it charged. Instead of fleeing, which it was likely expecting, I postured for active defense and this, I believe, saved my life.

 

The initial charge is public, if you haven't seen it then you haven't looked. The nictitating membranes come out, fins were down and it came fast. If that's not aggressive then I'm communicating with an uninformed audience. The second time this happened it got shot. Period. Say what you want: we should have bumped it, light jab with the 1 loaded gun in the water, maybe scare it with some muy thai moves.

 

It was there to feed and not scavenge. 36 hours we dove there with plenty of reasons for a big shark to come in and nothing. Finish the day and a Tiger poses this threat. I'm done justifying. You won't ever see the footage nor a framegrab, no one will. Regardless of what it shows someone will want to debate it, well the case is closed.

 

I don't blame the shark... do your **** homework man! By hunting we enter the natural process and have to reckon with the consequences. That is the one factor that seperates and ostracizes modern humans from the rest of the natural world. Good luck if you ever had to fend for yourself, civilized you may call yourself but I see it oppositely. And yes that is a word.

 

And no PM's were sent. I'm done here. Thanks Drew, there are things I might have shared to contribute to the community here but you armchair quarterbacks have never been knocked down to the grass so my time is wasted.

Edited March 18, 2009 by ryan m

[Drew 0]

Ryan

First of all, I'll say that I have nothing against you or what you did. I think you missed my point due to my poor writing skills. I disagree with the shooting of the shark (Craig Clasen's decision), not the documentation of it (which I believe is what you were doing). I know the shark was making passes to test you as prey. That's what they do. The speed of the tiger approaching you in the video is pretty normal. Note that when you reacted it took off faster than when it came in. If the 2nd pass was anything like the first, then I stand by my assertion. I don't suggest using the speargun to prod the shark as trivial hearsay. I've seen it at work and I also have fended off sharks using my housing and fins, all at the surface. Which is why talking about this experience would be helpful, including things like staying vertical in the water when shooting and not just keeping your eye in the viewfinder. All of which I'm sure you know, but other divers may not.

Philosophical differences aside, open dialogue and analyzing what could/should have been done before shooting the shark so as to avoid another incident like yours,can only be good. I've been referring to your video and incident because it's a case study of what could be done to avoid killing the shark. The experience of others who work with sharks is a valuable source of information to that end. I'm merely discussing what the other options are, and not trying to vilify you or DJ. It is up to you whether you wish to continue dialogue or not.