Poor Service from Ikelite

[Fjellklatrer 0]

Ok, so here is the situation. I have recently purchased my first underwater camera set-up; a G10 with an Ikelite housing, wide angle conversion dome and strobes. At home, out of the water, I tried putting the wide angle dome on; however it was nearly impossible. I phoned Ikelite, and their suggestion was to apply a small amount of their special lube to the o-ring and then twist it on - that worked. After playing around with it at home, I decided to take it to the pool to become familiar with it prior to using it on vacation in a few weeks. Per all of the instructions, I thoroughly checked everything out prior to getting into the water. I took a couple of shots with out the wide angle dome and then decided to put the dome on - here is where everything went bad. As soon as I put it on, which requires some twisting (per Ikelite's instructions over the phone and the written instructions), the housing flooded. The problem is that in twisting the wide angle conversion dome on, I loosened the port on the housing. The housing instructions list all possible areas to check prior to use and maintain, except the port. Being new to this, I assumed that it was fixed and didn't even think about the possiblity of screwing it loose.

 

I have talked to a guy at Ikelite, Jim, who is quite nice, but they say I am out of luck. When I follow their instructions to the letter, and ruin a brand new camera, I think that is extremely poor customer service. Has anyone else had a similar problem?

[Mariozi 1]

Well I am a big fan of aluminum housings (DSLR user) but I do reckon Ikelite has what's probably the best service in the industry, even though the port connection thing is a well-known soft spot on their housing with lot's of people having close-calls or floods like yours.

 

I am sorry for your problem, wish you luck next time.

First time I did something like that, I had an uwphoto instructor next to me... that's the best option.

 

As I was told when I did my basic uwphoto instructor course:

"The main objective of the basic uwphoto instructor is not to teach how to take great images underwater, but to take your student through the first steps avoiding the initial disappointment with the activity".

[rtrski 20]

While I feel for you, sincerely I do...you tested the assembled housing and port for the first time in a pool with a camera in it, vs. empty? Ouch, you know that's going to be a hard sell to get coverage.

 

That said, if you're talking about the WD-4 wide angle dome, they do seem to specifically say it can be mounted and dismounted underwater. If doing so 'loosens' the underlying port...that's a frightening scenario. I don't suppose it was clear to 'rotate' it in such a direction that you could only in effect 'tighten' the existing port, did it? (I checked ike's website, and found the manual for the G10 housing which as you noted doesn't even MENTION the 'included' port, making one kind of assume its a fixed part...but couldn't find the manual for the conversion dome.)

[allen 4]

This situation is certainly sad. Although this is hindsight, one of the most important parts of a new housing is to "test" it without a camera in it. Assembling the housing, pushing all of the buttons, using wet lenses, etc. Doing such tests might have alerted you to the weakness in the housing design. Again this is hindsight and something you have sadly learned the hardway.

 

If I remember correct, there is thread on this weakness. The consensus was that one should put a mark on the housing and on the port - the marks do not line up then there is a danger of floodiing. Hopefully, the repair of the camera will not set you back too much.

[craig 0]

I wouldn't blame him for not trying this with the camera removed. The housing didn't flood because of a manufacturing defect or setup problem.

[allen 4]

I wouldn't blame him for not trying this with the camera removed.

 

I do not think anyone is blaming him for trying the housing with the camera I am sure many do not. Just that this is sage advise.

 

The housing didn't flood because of a manufacturing defect or setup problem.

 

So what was the cause of housing flood?

 

To me it is a combination of perhaps design flaw, poor instructions, and bad luck.

Edited April 20, 2009 by allen

[davehicks 89]

I don't see how this is Poor Service from Ikelite. A first time UW camera user has problems smoothly assembling the system and floods it. It's unfortunate, but unless the thing is actually broken I would not blame the housing maker or accuse them of poor service.

 

We all know there are a hundred ways to kill a camera in a housing. Pinched o-ring, dirt, no lube, too much lube, loose fitting, knocking the port, rough water entry, etc. Many of us have probably experienced a regrettable but bone-headed error or two like this and learned from the experience. I'll bet a lot of us now have insurance on our gear as well!

 

I am sure this new user will learn from their experience too, and maybe can pick up a few tips from other users on the board.

[dhaas 27]

While it's sad the user flooded his housing we're not even talking about a dSLR housing here.

 

The Canon G10 has a fixed flat port threaded into the front. Practically sealed by a gorilla at the factory (trust me I know.....)

 

The WD-4 Dome Port EXTERNAL accessory was added later and in my use it works best to "walk" or wiggle it on and off.

 

Even better to put some lube on the o-ring inside the barrel that allows it to slide on and off easier.

 

You can even remove the barrel o-ring (it's a sealed EXTERNAL dome port and this has no effect on sealing) making it slide on and off even easier. Just be sure to attach the WD-4 lanyard to a handle or tray.

 

Turning things underwater even with a well lubed o-ring is asking for trouble IMHO......

 

Hope this helps as that's my only intention in posting.

 

dhaas

Edited April 21, 2009 by dhaas

[Fjellklatrer 0]

To answer a few questions:

 

I did test the housing in the water first without the camera in it. I didn't however, try to put the conversion dome on the port while the house was empty. I assumed that the port on the housing was fixed, and therefore, I didn't imagine that would or could have caused a problem.

 

The conversion dome manual mentions rotating it into place as did the woman at Ikelite whom I spoke to. Neither mentioned rotating in a specific direction. Again, because there is no mention of it not being fixed anywhere, I assumed that the port on the housing was fixed.

 

I feel that this is poor service from Ikelite because when I follow the exact instructions given along with basic common sense, the result is a ruined camera. Should not trying the conversion dome, something which should have no impact on whether the housing is watertight or not, in an empty housing a mistake that will cost me $400. Should I also have to try the aiming light, which attaches only to the arm, in an empty house for fear of that flooding the house as well.

[ce4jesus 1]

Turning things underwater even with a well lubed o-ring is asking for trouble IMHO......

 

Sorry...have to side with the user on this. He sounds as though he did his due diligence by calling when the manual fell into question.

 

1. The main port isn't fixed but yet that isn't stated?

2. He is directed to "rotate" the dome port into place on the phone.

3. Ike states in their own literature that the dome port can be added and removed "underwater".

 

While this might not be manufacturer's defect, it is a flaw in the overall design and the contributing factor was the literature. To further exacerbate this, the phone call probably led to a false sense of security for the user. As a victim of a poor housing design once before, I understand this frustration. Furthermore, Olympus stepped up to the plate and upgraded the housing and camera bodies. Ike needs to step up and replace the damaged equipment and to change their literature.

Edited April 21, 2009 by ce4jesus

[rtrski 20]

That's kind of how I was leaning too - the port isn't fixed, and if the manual says nothing about that fact, it would be an assembly defect if it's that easy to 'unscrew' unknowingly.

 

But somehow only my first sentence got the airtime...

 

I'd think at the least Ike would want to see if the port was indeed 'permanently' threaded and sealed as it should have been....(dhaas, do they use locktite or anything on this, or is it just supposed to be "screwed on really really tight"?)

 

Also to dhaas, while I agree with you that "turning things underwater is asking for trouble", the user didn't say he did that - I noted that Ike's website says the external dome can be installed/deinstalled underwater. If the o-ring is unnecessary on the face of it, and that tight - sounds like it needs to be a smaller cross-sectional diameter for an easier interference fit with less compression.

Edited April 21, 2009 by rtrski

[dhaas 27]

Gentlemen,

 

Please read my post in detail. It takes quite a bit of twisting to unthread the port type on the Canon G10, G9, G7 and many other Ikelite mid-size and and smaller housings. Not just a quarter turn.....An experienced dealer might have even walked the customer through some tips with the WD-4.

 

I've popped my own Canon G10 / WD-4 dome on and off underwater and never flooded it. But I didn't "twist" it.

 

As I said I sympathize and am continually amused by people who think they can engineer a better mousetrap that's 100% foolproof. I actually have a buddy who builds all his own housings......

 

In closing I read over on www.divephotoguide.com the Aquatica Nikon D700 review which began with the user flooding her Nikon D700 on the FIRST dive. Didn't go into detail but I'd be surprised if Aquatica (friends of mine too) jumped to replace this or every camera flooded depending on circumstances of course.

 

Yes, all brands can and do flood

 

I carry insurance on my cameras and this is stated in every Ikelite instruction manual. Saves a lot of worries when we're using electronic gizmos around or underwater.

 

I just know I'm going to regret posting in the first place...............

 

YMMV

 

dhaas

Edited April 21, 2009 by dhaas

[rtrski 20]

Dave:

 

Please read mine as well. I'm not jumping on an "Ikelite sucks" bandwagon. I am a happy ike user myself! But happy doesn't equate to "they can't get any better, ever, at their price point."

 

If the manual says nothing at all about the port not being fixed, the user has at least a little point if efforts to mount an external, wet-mountable accessory resulted in it unscrewing enough to let water in. My suggesting that might indicate too tight a fit for the dome accessory o-ring is a long way from suggesting I can 'design a 100% foolproof mousetrap'. So please don't lump me into that crowd, if you were indeed responding to my post.

 

Actually, on re-reading my FIRST post, I think I owe the user an apology. I was coming from the assumptions of a DSLR user where the port is swapped out and the seal is part of the housing integrity when I said "didn't you test first"? Although I educated myself by reading the manual and seeing the port is 'fixed' (or at least not mentioned at all in the manual as a part which needs checking/maintaining, unlike the rear seal, control glands, etc), and that the WD-4 is wet-mountable, before I finished my post...I never corrected that first line.

Edited April 21, 2009 by rtrski

[Timmoranuk 10]

Both my son and I have G9's and Ike housings. I'm not familar with the either the G10 or Ike's G10 housing but I'm assuming it is virtually the same as the G9.

 

The G9's long and short port has a very secure 'coarse' threaded, o-ring protected attachment and requires the use of a supplied steel rod to act as a 'lever' when attaching or detaching. The literature which accompanied our housings was very specific about the methods needed to swap ports.

 

I don't add / remove wide angle glass u/w as I prefer to dedicate a dive to either macro or w/a and I fit the appropriate port accordingly. However I can't imagine how fitting or removing an M67 threaded lens could possibly disturb a correctly fitted and tightened port.

 

All that said, I am sure Ike would do whatever was necessary to correct a circumstance which impacted on their own products. I'm not sure that its reasonable to expect Ike to take a magnanimous approach to a problem which has impacted on a third party product, i.e. a G10.

 

I recently had cause to phone Jim too and I found him extremely helpful and the small issue I presented was imeadiately and professionly dealt with. I live in the UK.

 

Just my .02 cents...

 

Take care and I'm very sorry to hear of your mishap. But hey, a new G10 ain't going to break the bank is it?

[Fjellklatrer 0]

Take care and I'm very sorry to hear of your mishap. But hey, a new G10 ain't going to break the bank is it?

 

No, but that isn't the point. It is is just very frustrating to ruin a $400 camera, which has been used to take a maximum of 50 photos.

 

An experienced dealer might have even walked the customer through some tips with the WD-4.

 

I did speak quite a bit with Ikelite and the online dealer to get their input prior to my purchase; however, I unfortunately don't live near a dive shop or camera shop that sells underwater housings beyond the most basic ones available, so I didn't have the opportunity to physically go through it with anyone.

 

I feel that formal instruction could have help me to take better photos, but simply following the instructions provided should be sufficient for not ruining the item or its contents.

 

On a slightly positive note, Ikelite was kind enough to offer to check out the TTL electronics for me if I send the house in.

[crawdad 0]

I suppose you could always twist it on and off in a direction that would cause tightening of the port.

 

As I have said before, if Ikelite would use off the shelf wet lens add ons instead of making some sort of BS slip on adapter your camera would still be functioning. Their slip on dome is a poor solution looking for a disaster to prove it.

 

The G10 is a poor choice for wide angle photos, it does not accept wet lenses easily and the slip on dome is barely wide angle.

[Scubysnaps 9]

Really feel sorry for you, have you tried rinsing it imn fresh water and thoroughly shaking it and letting it dry our? "partially" worked for me. My service from ikelite has been really good, to the point they did an exchange for my DS125 and they paid the postage, and I got it all exchanged within the week and I'm in the Uk.....ETA ...NO, SORRY...That was B&H, I tried thru Ikelite but they redirtected me back to B&H

 

Bad design from Ikelite as to the pop on WA port tho, I dont see the point in it if the view has to go thru the standard port as welll? When I saw the pictures of it I assumed it replaced the standard port, possibly allowing for the canon wide angle lens? Sorry if I am wrong its just my personal interpretation of it

Edited April 24, 2009 by The Woodster

[jeremypayne 0]

The G10 is a poor choice for wide angle photos, it does not accept wet lenses easily and the slip on dome is barely wide angle.

 

I dunno ... this setup with the dome gives about the same FOV as the G9 did with the INON UWL-100 - except with tack sharp corners.

 

It isn't Ikelite's fault that we all asked for a 28mm-equivalent lens from Canon and they gave it to us ...

[jeremypayne 0]

I suppose you could always twist it on and off in a direction that would cause tightening of the port.

 

It is not a "screw-on" adapter ... it "slides" on and off, but as dhass suggested, you kinda need to "walk" it on the camera.

 

I feel sorry for the OP ... I really do ... but the reality is that you would REALLY have to force the issue to unseat the port by twisting.

Edited April 24, 2009 by jeremypayne

[Probie 0]

Just my little bit on Ikes ports. I'm shooting with a Sony SR8 in an Ike and and have the W-20, WA flat lens on the front which is wet mountable. Upon removing it from the housing port last week in Fiji I noticed that the main port rotated slightly as I began to unscrew the WA port from it. The W-20 is threaded to the main port. I hand tightened it back up but after reading this thread will have a close look at it tmw to check its condition.

I must say I was very suprised at the time to see it move as I thought is was a fixed port.

 

Having a wet mountable threaded WA lens on a threaded main port being the same thread direction, now knowing, seems a little silly in design.

[Probie 0]

I feel sorry for the OP ... I really do ... but the reality is that you would REALLY have to force the issue to unseat the port by twisting.

 

I really didnt have to force the issue with mine. It came without much effort at all before the W-20 freed itself

[jeremypayne 0]

I really didnt have to force the issue with mine. It came without much effort at all before the W-20 freed itself

 

Are you talking about the G9 with the "short port"? ... because in that case, the port that came off was installed ... by you, right?

[Probie 0]

no as with my previous post I said I am shooting sony SR8, Ike with Ike W-20 WA lens. The main port is factory mounted with the housing. I know we're talking about differnt housings here with the G10 and mine but was just making the note that my port loosened with little effort in removing a wet mountable threaded lens. Topside thank heavens.

[jeremypayne 0]

no as with my previous post I said I am shooting sony SR8, Ike with Ike W-20 WA lens. The main port is factory mounted with the housing. I know we're talking about differnt housings here with the G10 and mine but was just making the note that my port loosened with little effort in removing a wet mountable threaded lens. Topside thank heavens.

Two comments ...

 

That's weird as it would imply that the "seal" from you screwing the lens on was tighter than the port, which is odd. Did you leave the WA-20 on the port for a long time? I have screwed the WA-20, UWL-100 and UCL-165s on and off many, many times without any issues. I've also taken the ports on and off ... and they are NOT easy to remove. The first time I removed the standard port with the port tool I had to REALLY push to un-seat the port.

 

But more importantly, the G10 Dome accessory is not a threaded accessory ... which might actually make it EASIER to force the port off ... but it doesn't officially require "screwing" at all.

[Probie 0]

I have put on and removed the W20 about 20 times but in saying that the last time I removed the lens and the port rotated, it was in the morning after diving the afternoon before with it still on. Saying that though, I never do it up very tight as I am already aware of stressing on this area is not a great thing.

However also realising that leaving the lens on does and can cause this problem. But was unaware until now that the port was not a fixed part AND is threaded the same way as an external lens.

I really didnt have to apply much force unscrewing before the port moved.