spamed by imagewizards using eric cheng's name

[batray 0]

I received a spam message today that used Eric Cheng's name as a reference from imagewizards who did the prints for his show. The message was sent to an email address harvested from the web site of a dive club (The Sea Divers) I am president of. The message was unsolicited, and there is no prior business relationship. The email address used has never been used to subscribe to any lists.

 

The company may make a good prodoct, but being sent unsolicited email to a harvested address is spam. I hope that Eric does not condone the use of his name in this spam. I refuse to give any business to spamers and hope that you too will avoid doing business with spamers at imagewizards.

 

The spam email follows (with contact info redacted)

 

 

My name is Tammy Pierce with Image Wizards. I was looking over your web site and was very impressed with your work. Our company can take your work and showcase it on ALUMINUM. This new ALUMINARTE process brings out the depth and color like nothing else. I would love to send you a sample packet free of charge. Once you see out samples you will understand the beauty of the product. If you want me to send the samples please just let me know what address and to whom I should send them. You are welcome to visit our web site at www.xxxxxxxxxxxxx.net.

 

Here are a list of clients that we have done work for:

 

Photographers

 

* George Schober

* Eric Cheng

* Aaron Chang

* Stephen Frink

* Danny Clinch

* Kevin Kubota

* Larry Lambrecht

* Al Aatterwhite

* Jeffrey Stoner

* JP Design Studios

* Ken Jenkins Photography

* Kenneth Pearson

* Melissa Lea

* Photos for You - Ken Minyard

* Seth Beaudreau

* Ardy Arani

* Anyes Galleani

 

Tammy Pierce

Account Executive

800-xxx-xxxx Ext 234

www.xxxxxxxxxxxx.net

 

 

 

Chris Grossman

diver.net

[echeng 0]

Chris -

 

I'll send your message to Image Wizards. I am not in support of spamming!

[Giles 1]

is it really considered spamming if it is a targeted email at the right demographic?

 

his email is on a website showing off photos. How come it's not hard work and good market targeting ?

 

If you have a house with door people can come knock on it to sell you stuff !

I know I would prefer an email letting me know about something i may be interested in rather than a someone knocking on my door telling me about a new vacuum cleaner.

 

not saying you can't complain about it or we should put up with it, the idea interests me though that there must be a line or a level of how spammy some mail is or isn't. I guess slightly off topic .. just got me thinking

[batray 0]

is it really considered spamming if it is a targeted email at the right demographic?

 

his email is on a website showing off photos. How come it's not hard work and good market targeting ?

 

If you have a house with door people can come knock on it to sell you stuff !

I know I would prefer an email letting me know about something i may be interested in rather than a someone knocking on my door telling me about a new vacuum cleaner.

 

not saying you can't complain about it or we should put up with it, the idea interests me though that there must be a line or a level of how spammy some mail is or isn't. I guess slightly off topic .. just got me thinking

 

 

Yes, if they harvest an email address from a website and send it an unsolicited message it is spam. The website they harvested the email address from is the dive club's. The email address they used was the reservation email, not my personal email. This is spam and there is no excuse for it.

[echeng 0]

Yeah, there is no excuse for using harvested email addresses. It's possible that they paid someone to give them an email list for use, in which case they wouldn't know that the address was harvested. Still, it's unsolicited, so it's spam.

 

Most companies spam. If I get spammed once or twice from a company that produces a good product, it doesn't make me boycott it. I might write to them and tell them that I don't agree with their practices (and to take me off the list), but that's about it.

 

Now, if the spam continues, then it's a different story altogether. But even if that's the case, marking it as spam is a mouse-click away, and then I never have to see mail from that company again.

[drako 0]

Although a friend of mine recieved a similar e-mail (and he got the free samples) he was very impressed with the product. I dont think it had Eric's name on it however I do remember Frink's. That being said my friend will probably order the aluminum prints.

[RogerKL 0]

Chris,

 

My name is Roger Laudy. I am the president of Image Wizards, Inc. Tammy Pierce works for my company. She is an excellent employee and works hard every day. If she comes across a site that she thinks might have an interest in our product, she might send them an email. We don't buy bulk email list and blast the world like your making it out to be. I looked up the definition of spaming and here is what I have found. It talks about bulk emails being sent .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_(electronic)#E-mail_spam I am sorry that you received our email and have made the choice not to do business with our company. Why wouldn't you just respond back to us and tell us to not send any future emails again? Don't you have better things to do? We have made a lot of believers with our AluminArte product, not to mention a lot of new friends. I'm sorry you won't be one of them:(

 

Roger

[scorpio_fish 5]

Is finding a potential customer and sending them an unsolicited e-mail considered spamming as compared to using a web crawler to harvest e-mail addresses for a mass e-mail?

 

I'm just curious.

[sgietler 1]

Well this is a very interesting topic.

 

I've received emails like this (I did receive the Image Wizards email), and they usually don't bother me, especially if they are a one-time email about a diving or UW photography product, or have a way to unsubscribe.

 

I have a few sites with my email address on them, I know that small businesses probably look at relevant web sites, see my email address and copy it down.

 

I usually think of "spam" as emails selling viagra, bank accounts from Nigeria that you can't stop or reply to. Most of these will go into my spam box though.

 

I'm very curious to see what other people think, I'll bet there are different opinions.

 

Scott

[TheRealDrew 0]

Well this is a very interesting topic.

 

I've received emails like this (I did receive the Image Wizards email), and they usually don't bother me, especially if they are a one-time email about a diving or UW photography product, or have a way to unsubscribe.

 

I have a few sites with my email address on them, I know that small businesses probably look at relevant web sites, see my email address and copy it down.

 

I usually think of "spam" as emails selling viagra, bank accounts from Nigeria that you can't stop or reply to. Most of these will go into my spam box though.

 

I'm very curious to see what other people think, I'll bet there are different opinions.

 

Scott

 

 

I loathe spam myself, but people often do contact me from time to time with items of interest and it does not bother me when it is a one off thing, such as what was done here. I am not fond of email lists that start bombarding me with updates constantly - usually from harvested emails or, worse, if I contacted them initially with a question and somehow they think they have carte blanche to email. I do opt out everytime I can in those cases, assuming the place is legitimate because otherwise the unsubscribes are not going to do anything other than confirm an email address.

 

Bottom line is the spam that takes up space are the Viagra and the rest. One offs with a high human element are so rare that they do not bother me. I just ignore them.

[echeng 0]

According to MailChimp, one of the biggest mailing list services around:

 

How MailChimp Defines Spam

 

When you send an email to someone you don't know (such as to the president of a company you'd like to become your client), that's an "unsolicited" email. Sending one unsolicited message to someone is obviously not spam. That's "doing business."

 

But when you send an unsolicited email to an entire list of people you don't know, that's spam.

 

http://www.mailchimp.com/page/terms/

 

I pretty much agree.

[Giles 1]

is it really considered spamming if it is a targeted email at the right demographic?

Still, it's unsolicited, so it's spam.

According to MailChimp, one of the biggest mailing list services around:

 

[read above]

 

I pretty much agree.

LOL ... now you agree !!

[batray 0]

The message you sent is spam, and here is why;

 

Your message is a bulk message because you sent the exact same message to multiple recipients who did not request it and with whom you had no prior business relationship. You may not have done it on the scale of hardcore spamers, but your message is a bulk message.

 

You harvested the email address of a web site and sent an unsolicited email to someone who has no use for it. The reservationist for our dive club to whom you sent the message is not a photographer and has no need for your services.

 

Therefore your email is spam because you sent an unsolicited bulk advertising message to a recipient who has no need for your services. Your denial does not change the facts.

 

Unfortunately many people respond to spam as is proved by some of the postings in this thread. However it is my firm belief that not only is it unethical to send spam, it is also unethical to respond and purchase products advertised by spam. Those who respond help perpetuate the deluge of unwanted email on us all by making spamming profitable.

 

The other problem I have with your email is that I bet you did not ask the people whose names are being used as references for permission. I am willing to bet that if you asked them the honest question ”Can we use your name as a reference in unsolicited email advertising?” that you would get a resounding no. I have given permission for my name and work to be used to promote products on a web site, but that permission does not include using my name in unsolicited emails.

 

I understand as a business you need to advertise your product, however you should use ethical methods in doing so. Here are some examples you should consider;

 

A: Web site advertising. You could choose this web site and perhaps digitaldiver.net to target underwater photographers. I am willing to bet the rates are very reasonable. I do not know Eric, but if he is a regular customer of yours you might even be able to work out a barter deal with him.

 

B: A non bulk email addressed to the person you are targeting. If your employee had spent another minute you might have turned me into a customer instead of a pissed off spam recipient. To do that you might have noticed that my photos say diver.net on them, go to that web site, glean some personal information and personalize the email. For example if your message was targeted at me with the following beginning paragraph it would not be spam.

 

Chris Grossman,

I was looking at your web site and a really liked your pictures from San Miguel Island at diver.net/californiadiveboats.com/Peace/2009.05.01-02/. Many of them would look great reproduced with our AluminArte process.

 

You could then insert your from message after the personalization. The fact that you actually looked at my work, managed to read the title, and acknowledge it at the start of your message would get my attention, and make me read the rest.

 

If you are an ethical businessman you will apologize for sending spam and refrain from doing so in the future. If you are not you will continue your ways and no ethical person should do business with you.

 

Chris Grossman

diver.net

[Giles 1]

A: Web site advertising. You could choose this web site and perhaps digitaldiver.net to target underwater photographers. I am willing to bet the rates are very reasonable..

 

B: If your employee had spent another minute you might have turned me into a customer instead of a pissed off spam recipient. To do that you might have noticed that my photos say diver.net on them, go to that web site, glean some personal information and personalize the email. For example if your message was targeted at me with the following beginning paragraph it would not be spam.

 

If you take some time to look at the advertisers on Wetpixel to help support the site and learn about relevant and releated products you may have noticed that AluminArte is already paying for advertising here. Oh well at least they found a way to grab your attention after the normal means of advertising was completely missed by you !

[batray 0]

If you take some time to look at the advertisers on Wetpixel to help support the site and learn about relevant and releated products you may have noticed that AluminArte is already paying for advertising here. Oh well at least they found a way to grab your attention after the normal means of advertising was completely missed by you !

 

It is certainly not among the banners on this page or on the front page, perhaps they need a bigger ad because whatever they have now is well hidden.

[TheRealDrew 0]

Therefore your email is spam because you sent an unsolicited bulk advertising message to a recipient who has no need for your services. Your denial does not change the facts.

 

 

The other problem I have with your email is that I bet you did not ask the people whose names are being used as references for permission. I am willing to bet that if you asked them the honest question ”Can we use your name as a reference in unsolicited email advertising?” that you would get a resounding no. I have given permission for my name and work to be used to promote products on a web site, but that permission does not include using my name in unsolicited emails.

 

 

 

A: Web site advertising. You could choose this web site and perhaps digitaldiver.net to target underwater photographers. I am willing to bet the rates are very reasonable. I do not know Eric, but if he is a regular customer of yours you might even be able to work out a barter deal with him.

 

 

 

Chris Grossman,

I was looking at your web site and a really liked your pictures from San Miguel Island at diver.net/californiadiveboats.com/Peace/2009.05.01-02/. Many of them would look great reproduced with our AluminArte process.

 

It is certainly not among the banners on this page or on the front page, perhaps they need a bigger ad because whatever they have now is well hidden.

 

 

As Giles point out, AluminArte does advertise here, the ads rotate on the page and I have seen them often.

 

Additionally, the President came in and gave a good explaination of exactly what happened.

 

Eric has given his insight on the situation, and if he has issues with AluminArte I am would assume he will address them. As to whether we are privy to what he says (or even should be) who knows.

 

FWIW, some things to think about. You are linking to your site which advertises trips and mention a reservationist. You reference products on other sites that would appeal to divers. You are suggesting that AluminArte should look into advertising on another site, which caters to the same crrowd as many Wetpixel member, at rates which may be "very reasonable." All under a thread calling out someone who is using Eric Cheng's name, which for obvious reasons would attract attention around these parts

[ehanauer 41]

If an e-mail is trying to sell me something that I didn't ask for it's spam.

 

That's what the spam button on my Mail app is for.

[RogerKL 0]

Chris, As far as ethics, we normally send out emails to one person at a time. Tammy did not realize sending to the 10 or so names on your site was doing anything wrong. She will refrain from doing this in the future. We are SORRY! Now that I proven my ethics, we would like to create a special offer for those who have read this. We will call it the "we're so sorry Chris Grossman special" Anyone who mentions this thread will receive a 25% discount (good until 9-1-09) on their first framed piece. Now, Chris, are we doing anything wrong???? Roger Laudy

www.imagewizards.net

rkl@imagewizards.net

[batray 0]

Roger,

Your apology is gladly accepted.

I hope we can do business in the future.

 

Thank You!

Chris Grossman

diver.net

Edited July 17, 2009 by batray

[rtrski 20]

Sometimes I wonder about similar contacts on social/professional networking sites, like Linked-in. For one thing, I put in my profile there that I am open to job opportunities - but then write in my detailed profile that I am serious about only wanting to see 'good' matches to my full background, not just 'keyword matches' from lazy recruiters.

 

Some recruiters send me what I consider to be "spam". Others send obviously personalized emails with a polite "may we talk to you further, apologies if we are intruding" sort of tone that make it clear they DID read my preferences. Whether interested in the specific listings or not, the former gets marked as spam and a complaint thru the Linked-in 'report abuse' methods, the latter gets a polite response (even if it is a polite "no thank you").

 

I think the only "foul" here might have been a bit of a group email and not making it clearly personalized. The equivalent of a business 'cold-call' via email isn't automatically spam in my book, although my definition might be a bit lenient. (On the other hand, the lowlives who rubber band or tape crap to my doorknob at my house are likely to get Tazed if I catch them, even if they're leaving coupons for the pizza place I frequent up the street!! )

Edited July 21, 2009 by rtrski