Nikon D700 and Nikon 70-180mm macro

[sharky1961 2]

Hi,

 

does anybody use the combination nikon D700 with the nikon 70-180mm macro lens?? how about image quality?? what is the focusspeed with this lens is it the same as with the old nikon 105mm D micro??

 

 

Rob

[divegypsy 22]

Hi Rob,

 

I just got my housing for the D700 three days ago. And I fully expect to use the 70-180 regularly on my upcoming trip to Lembeh in three weeks. Compared with AF-S lenses like the new 105 VR, the 70-180 is a bit slower in focusing. But as a result it is much less likely to "overshoot" the focus mark. I often (on my F5) use the lens behind a small dome which shortens the focus travel considerably as you are focusing on virtual image distances, not actual distances. This also make the lens a bit "wider", which I often find useful.

 

Fred

[Don Silcock 14]

Hi Rob,

 

I just got my housing for the D700 three days ago. And I fully expect to use the 70-180 regularly on my upcoming trip to Lembeh in three weeks. Compared with AF-S lenses like the new 105 VR, the 70-180 is a bit slower in focusing. But as a result it is much less likely to "overshoot" the focus mark. I often (on my F5) use the lens behind a small dome which shortens the focus travel considerably as you are focusing on virtual image distances, not actual distances. This also make the lens a bit "wider", which I often find useful.

 

Fred

 

 

Fred, I am also a big fan of the 70-180 and like you said, it's not the fastest lens but it's not too bad either once you have got used to it.... I used it on virtually every dive on my trip to Lembeh last year and was really pleased with the result - here is the gallery link:

 

http://www.indopacificimages.com/pages/ima...lery/index.html

 

I would be really interested to understand how you use the small dome as I have just acquired the Subal DP54B to do some "wide angle macro". Do you mount the dome on a series of extension rings?

 

Don

[Kogia 3]

Hi,

 

does anybody use the combination nikon D700 with the nikon 70-180mm macro lens?? how about image quality?? what is the focusspeed with this lens is it the same as with the old nikon 105mm D micro??

 

 

Rob

 

I used to use this lens with the Nikon F90 in the days of the film, and I was very happy with it, but IMHO for any lens longer than 85mm, you really need to be able to focus manually to use it effectively underwater. So the problem is to get the housing manufacturers to either make a special port for it, with a built-in focus gear or (much better) make a short extension tube with built-in focus gear that can be strategically placed behind a short macro port, with more extension added behind as needed. Seacam used to offer this option with their old port system - don't know if they still do. I have been banging my head against a wall trying to convince Subal they should make extension rings with manual focus knobs. They do make manual focus ports for 105mm and 100mm lenses, and they list the 70-180 as compatible with the focus port for the old Nikon 105mm. Of course I have the new Nikon 105mmVR and the corresponding port. Haven't found time to experiment with that yet to see if it can be made to work with the 70-180. If not, there's no way I'll be traveling with two large MF ports. Of course you also need the gear rings to make it work - both for focus and zoom. Depending on the size of the ports in your system you may have to remove the tripod collar for the lens to fit in your housing - a job that is best done at an official Nikon service center.

[sharky1961 2]

Hi Fred,

 

 

I also have a small domeport. Do you use a close up lens for the 70-180 when you use the smal domeport?? or can the lens focus near enough so you won't have to use a diopter??

 

 

Rob

[Don Silcock 14]

I used to use this lens with the Nikon F90 in the days of the film, and I was very happy with it, but IMHO for any lens longer than 85mm, you really need to be able to focus manually to use it effectively underwater. So the problem is to get the housing manufacturers to either make a special port for it, with a built-in focus gear or (much better) make a short extension tube with built-in focus gear that can be strategically placed behind a short macro port, with more extension added behind as needed. Seacam used to offer this option with their old port system - don't know if they still do. I have been banging my head against a wall trying to convince Subal they should make extension rings with manual focus knobs. They do make manual focus ports for 105mm and 100mm lenses, and they list the 70-180 as compatible with the focus port for the old Nikon 105mm. Of course I have the new Nikon 105mmVR and the corresponding port. Haven't found time to experiment with that yet to see if it can be made to work with the 70-180. If not, there's no way I'll be traveling with two large MF ports. Of course you also need the gear rings to make it work - both for focus and zoom. Depending on the size of the ports in your system you may have to remove the tripod collar for the lens to fit in your housing - a job that is best done at an official Nikon service center.

 

I have the Subal manual/auto port for the 70-180 and very rarely use the manual focusing.... Once you get used to the lens and "drive it" I really don't think the auto-focus is that bad....

 

The two images were taken at Lembeh last year @ 180mm with a wet diopter and on auto focus. Nearly all the macro shots in the Image Galleries on my site http://www.indopacificimages.com/ were taken with the 70-180 on auto.

 

Don

[unlis 0]

Hi Fred,

 

 

I also have a small domeport. Do you use a close up lens for the 70-180 when you use the smal domeport?? or can the lens focus near enough so you won't have to use a diopter??

 

 

Rob

 

I am using Nexus diopters and quite happy with it. I think Don also using same things with Subal housing/port. Its very good lens IMHO.

[eyu 27]

I use the 70-180 mm macro lens with the DX format, but plan to change to the FX format later this year with probably the new D700X. I too use the Subal port that allows either auto or manual focus, but I do not find that MF is needed. The lens focus a little slow, but locks on. Any hunting can be corrected quickly with a focus light. The 70-180 is a great lens, espically with a wet diopter.

Don's pigmy shots are wonderful!!!!

 

Elmer

Edited August 12, 2009 by eyu

[divegypsy 22]

Hi Don,

 

In response to the question you asked "I would be really interested to understand how you use the small dome as I have just acquired the Subal DP54B to do some "wide angle macro". Do you mount the dome on a series of extension rings?"

 

I purchased most of my Seacam gear ten years ago when I bought several F5 housing. I didn't buy regular macro ports, but instead bought a series of different sized extension tubes plus very short flat glass ports and several of a small diameter dome port that had the same diameter as the Seacam extension rings. I call this small dome a "macro dome". This modular approach allows me to "build" whatever port length I want. Since several of my 75mm extension rings incorporate a manual focusing knob, the port I build for the 70-180 allows me three controls for the lens. Two on the housing itself for the zoom and AF-M selector ring, and a third on the port itself for manual focus.

 

In order, from the housing body to the final glass port, the extension tubes I use for the 70-180 are as follows - housing body, 60mm extension ring, 75mm focusing extension ring, 25mm extension ring, and final glass port - either flat glass or "macro dome".

 

This same versatility makes it very easy for me to add a tele-converter or Kenko extension ring between the camera body and a prime macro lens such as the Nikon 105mm or the Sigma 150mm. When using the Sigma 150mm, which I prefer to use with 56mm or Kenko tubes, I use most of the same components, but with the focusing tube next to the housing body because of a difference in position of the manual focusing ring I had built for the lens which sits where the removable tripod collar would be. I also almost always use the older Nikon 105mm with one or several Kenko tubes.

 

The same extension tube collection allows me to move the large dome ports outward as needed when using various wide angle zoom such as the Nikon 24-85mm, the 17-35mm and the new 14-24mm.

 

Fred

[Don Silcock 14]

Hi Don,

 

In response to the question you asked "I would be really interested to understand how you use the small dome as I have just acquired the Subal DP54B to do some "wide angle macro". Do you mount the dome on a series of extension rings?"

 

I purchased most of my Seacam gear ten years ago when I bought several F5 housing. I didn't buy regular macro ports, but instead bought a series of different sized extension tubes plus very short flat glass ports and several of a small diameter dome port that had the same diameter as the Seacam extension rings. I call this small dome a "macro dome". This modular approach allows me to "build" whatever port length I want. Since several of my 75mm extension rings incorporate a manual focusing knob, the port I build for the 70-180 allows me three controls for the lens. Two on the housing itself for the zoom and AF-M selector ring, and a third on the port itself for manual focus.

 

In order, from the housing body to the final glass port, the extension tubes I use for the 70-180 are as follows - housing body, 60mm extension ring, 75mm focusing extension ring, 25mm extension ring, and final glass port - either flat glass or "macro dome".

 

This same versatility makes it very easy for me to add a tele-converter or Kenko extension ring between the camera body and a prime macro lens such as the Nikon 105mm or the Sigma 150mm. When using the Sigma 150mm, which I prefer to use with 56mm or Kenko tubes, I use most of the same components, but with the focusing tube next to the housing body because of a difference in position of the manual focusing ring I had built for the lens which sits where the removable tripod collar would be. I also almost always use the older Nikon 105mm with one or several Kenko tubes.

 

The same extension tube collection allows me to move the large dome ports outward as needed when using various wide angle zoom such as the Nikon 24-85mm, the 17-35mm and the new 14-24mm.

 

Fred

 

Fred, this is really interesting as I have considered something similar myself, if I ever changed housing brands, as I believe that Subal is the only manufacturer that makes a dedicated port for the 70-180.

 

I have enough extension rings to build a similar port, but without the manual focus, to try the small Subal "macro dome" DP54B. Do you have any images you could share that shoes the effect of using the dome for such macro work?

 

Don

[sharky1961 2]

Hi Fred,

 

I know that you can put a diopter on the lens. What I mean is when you use the lens with de domport is it than nescessary to use a diopter to get the lens to fokus underwater. Just like you need a diopter with wide angled lenses and small domeports.

 

quote: Fred, this is really interesting as I have considered something similar myself, if I ever changed housing brands, as I believe that Subal is the only manufacturer that makes a dedicated port for the 70-180.

 

Don I believe that Seacam also have a dedicated lens for the 70-180mm. With this lens you can set M/A focus, zoom and manual focus.

 

 

Rob

Edited August 14, 2009 by sharky1961

[bruceterrill 0]

Hi Don,

I own and use Nexus housing/ports etc, and they have what they call a 'multi' port that is a large extension assembly

that houses manual on/off and zoom/focus knobs. You then choose what port and extensions for the chosen lens.

Very easy to use and robust unit. I believe that it was initially made for the Nikkor 70-180 micro and the 200 micro soon after?

Nexus also make a small diameter wide angle dome port that would be very suitable for the dome port option of the current conversation.

It is the WP-7.

HTH,

Bruce...

[divegypsy 22]

HI Guys,

 

I do NOT use any diopter on the 70-180 with the small dome. The lens focuses close enough without it. I prefer to use lenses without adding any additional optics when possible. The maximum magnification with the 70-180 behind the "macro-dome" drops to about .4x from the .75x that you get with a flat port. But the dome is much more suitable for larger guys, like bigger groupers, etc. Even tight shots of fish schools. And actually is more than the .33x wider you might expect. I attribute this to the fact that many lenses that utilize internal focusing actually get a bit wider as you focus closer. I haven't done actual comparisons to put actual numbers on this "widening", but I think of the 70-180 as being more like a 40-100 behind the dome. I love it and use it often to get a bit of water color in the picture.

 

I'm about ten days from hopping a plane to Indonesia and will spend five weeks, September and the first week in October, in the Lembeh Strait where I will have my first shooting with the 70-180 (and other lenses) with a new Seacam housing for the D700 in addition to my trusty F5. So I'll have more thoughts on many subjects by late October.

 

After DEMA, I'll be going back to Indonesia for a month or so in Bali where I'll be shooting only for me and have more time to shoot some comparison shots with both systems. In theory, I'll also be trying Hartemberger 250 strobes with the Heinrichs Weikamp i-ttl converter with the D700. The problem is just finding enough time to do everything and still have fun. And fun comes first.

 

Fred

[Don Silcock 14]

HI Guys,

 

I do NOT use any diopter on the 70-180 with the small dome. The lens focuses close enough without it. I prefer to use lenses without adding any additional optics when possible. The maximum magnification with the 70-180 behind the "macro-dome" drops to about .4x from the .75x that you get with a flat port. But the dome is much more suitable for larger guys, like bigger groupers, etc. Even tight shots of fish schools. And actually is more than the .33x wider you might expect. I attribute this to the fact that many lenses that utilize internal focusing actually get a bit wider as you focus closer. I haven't done actual comparisons to put actual numbers on this "widening", but I think of the 70-180 as being more like a 40-100 behind the dome. I love it and use it often to get a bit of water color in the picture.

 

I'm about ten days from hopping a plane to Indonesia and will spend five weeks, September and the first week in October, in the Lembeh Strait where I will have my first shooting with the 70-180 (and other lenses) with a new Seacam housing for the D700 in addition to my trusty F5. So I'll have more thoughts on many subjects by late October.

 

After DEMA, I'll be going back to Indonesia for a month or so in Bali where I'll be shooting only for me and have more time to shoot some comparison shots with both systems. In theory, I'll also be trying Hartemberger 250 strobes with the Heinrichs Weikamp i-ttl converter with the D700. The problem is just finding enough time to do everything and still have fun. And fun comes first.

 

Fred

 

Fred, this is great info - thanks for sharing! I have been wanting to get a lens that would give me the same flexibility in the mid range (~40-100) that I love so much with the 70-180. I have just checked all my extension rings and do have enough to mount the small Subal dome, but my question is what distance from the housing is the best one?

 

As I understand dome port theory, the curvature of the dome creates a virtual image that the lens focuses on, but for the image to be sharp the lens need to be positioned correctedly so that it's nodal point can focus on that virtual image.

 

Have you worked this out or established it by trial & error?

 

Don

[divegypsy 22]

HI Don et al,

 

I don't make a lot of effort to fiddle around mm by mm to establish a nodal point of the lens and then try to center it perfectly in the dome. I tend to go with whatever moves the dome out reasonably far and doesn't cause vignetting at the widest end of the zoom range. I also look at my whole "system" and sometimes make small changes so that I have less to carry when I travel. Steven Frink and Seacam recommend a 55mm tube with the superdome for the 17-35mm f2.8. I started with that and then found that I was using a 60mm tube with the 70-180 and a 60mm tube and the wideport with the 24-85mm that I like. So I tried the 60mm with the 17-35mm and the superdome. It didn't vignette and I could see no real difference between that and the 55mm tube. So I've gone to using the 60mm tube as my "universal" starting tube. And was pleased to discover that combining the 60mm tube with the short flat glass I use on the 70-180 gives me a port that just fits the new 105mm VR Micro-nikkor as well. If I want to use an extension tube on the 105mm lens, like a 20mm kenko so I can focus a bit closer than 1:1, I just add a 20mm extension tube to the 60mm tube. Its a bit like the building blocks or erector set I had as a kid. Just decide what I want to try optically, and build a port to match!

 

I am much more likely to play around with dome diameter to get the results I want from a lens. The new Nikon 24-70 f2.8 is a good case. I tried it behind the wideport, which has about a 6" diameter curve to it. But the lens couldn't focus very close. The lens only focuses to about 14" and the curvature of the 6" dome brought the virtual image in too close. So working with a good machine shop friend, we adapted an old Oceanic Hydro 35 dome, which has an 8" curvature, to fit my Seacam. The focusing range is a bit better, but still not nearly so good for close focus wide-angle as the 24-85 when used in its 35-85 macro range. But since the 24-70 has all of Nikon's latest whistles and bells like ED glass, crystal nano coating, etc it may prove to be the better big animal lens and better for shooting guys like sharks. I also tried the superdome with the 24-70. And it also had a more useable focusing range than I got with the wideport. But the superdome is so big that it took away the nimbleness of the housing and port, so I like the Oceanic dome a bit better.

 

Didn't have a chance to really test it after making the adapter as my trip to South Australia was made less productive than I'd hoped by the windiest, rainiest winter weather they've had in over a dozen years. Only did about 20 dives and shot 15 rolls of film. But did get a few very nice shots, particularly with the 24-85mm.

 

Fred

[divegypsy 22]

Hi Guys,

 

An update on the original topic - using the 70-180 on a D700. I'm in Lembeh, North Sulawesi and trying out my new D700 for the first time. All my shooting so far has been with two lenses. Either the 70-180 Micro-Nikkor for bigger critters. Or an old style 105 in combination with a 36mm Kenko extension tube which give me a repro ratio of 1/3 lifesize to 1.5x. I'll try to attach a couple of the 70-180 shots. The Banggai cardinalfish were shot using a flat port on a night dive. The mimic octopus was shot in daytime using the small seacam "macro" dome I mentioned previously. Both shots using my Hartenberger 250 strobes in combination with the Heinrichs Weikamp TTL converter to allow TTL flash control. I still have to do some "adapting" to the new system vs my older F5 with film TTL, but I feel I'm making progress.

 

Fred