Flooded GATES EX1 housing

[Nick Hope 151]

Aside from the gland problem, I see some white powdery deposits. Possibly the start of some galvanic corrosion. Gates housings should be washed really really really really REALLY REALLY well AND dried afterwards, especially around the controls. Once galvanic corrosion starts it's likely to get worse and if it doesn't cause a functional problem in the longterm, it will certainly knacker your resale value.

 

Also, I don't know if current housings have a zinc washer on the bottom like my VX2000 housing does, but it should be kept nice and tight. It's supposed to stop galvanic corrosion.

[SimonSpear 65]

Hi Brumpy

 

Well it truly is a nightmare scenario and one that I'm sure everyone here dreads, especially those of us with no budget to carry a back up system. It's certainly made me go and recheck the glands on my Gates housing and I'll make a point of checking them no on a regular basis.

 

Cheers, Simon

[ronscuba 4]

Forgive my ignorance. Is the gland aka nut ? If it is, is a spanner aka wrench ? Seriously. I have a Gates FX7 housing with the same type of controls shown in the picture. Is everyone saying I should check the tightness of what I'm calling the nut ? Hand tight check or should I get a special wrench called a spanner ?

Edited September 6, 2009 by ronscuba

[jonny shaw 16]

Forgive my ignorance. Is the gland aka nut ? If it is, is a spanner aka wrench ? Seriously. I have a Gates FX7 housing with the same type of controls shown in the picture. Is everyone saying I should check the tightness of what I'm calling the nut ? Hand tight check or should I get a special wrench called a spanner ?

 

 

Yeah Ron, Spanner is a wrench and the nut is the outside part of the gland. I have just checked with my fingers as I didn't want to break the lock tight seal... someone correct me if I should have used a spanner / wrench

 

Jon

[SimonSpear 65]

Same here Johnny - I checked with my fingers. If there is a solvent used to seal them then I certainly didn't want to be breaking that with a spanner/wrench/tool or anything else.

[Neptune7 0]

Okay, I'll be brutaly honest. If he takes a spanner and tightens this thing after finding it loose and the housing floods it is his fault again. Gates will simply reply, you should have sent it in for tightening instead of doing it yourself. Your argument here is ridiculous. Loctite is used on automobiles, aircraft and the like and to be brutally honest I've yet to see a head bolt fly off after 200,000 miles of driving. I would think an auto would be subjected to much more "vibration" than a camera housing in transit. The users only fault was trusting a piece of equipment to do what it was designed to do. We do this in everyday life.

 

I agree 100% with ce4jesus. There are parts of a housing we should not have to fiddle with. Gates housings are very expensive and the company should stand by it's products. We are buying housing to protect very expensive video gear we put inside. This is called "customer respect".

 

Pierre

[Steve Douglas 16]

We have to remember that Brumpy used the housing for about 50 dives before his flood and had used it for several dives just prior to his incident. Gates has always enjoyed a good customer service reputation and there is nothing to show that there was an internal problem, not checkable by Brumpy. It is very possible that the housing and internal gland could have been dislodged by airport personnel, another diver bumping his housing on the cam table, or inadvertently and unknowingly being dislodged by Brumpy himself. Of course this is all inconclusive and speculative at best and without prove of the housing itself being at fault, not sure how anyone could hold Gates, or any housing manufacturer, to be responsible.

Steve

[stewsmith 14]

All that white crud would suggest lack of cleansing post dive, which if i were Gates would suggest lack of maintenance.

 

Stew

[DeanB 19]

Anyone got a free gift voucher or lunch invite from Gates yet ... ???

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

[ce4jesus 1]

We have to remember that Brumpy used the housing for about 50 dives before his flood and had used it for several dives just prior to his incident. Gates has always enjoyed a good customer service reputation and there is nothing to show that there was an internal problem, not checkable by Brumpy. It is very possible that the housing and internal gland could have been dislodged by airport personnel, another diver bumping his housing on the cam table, or inadvertently and unknowingly being dislodged by Brumpy himself. Of course this is all inconclusive and speculative at best and without prove of the housing itself being at fault, not sure how anyone could hold Gates, or any housing manufacturer, to be responsible.

Steve

 

Steve,

I would think that abuse of the housing..ie rough knocks during transport or use, would be highly visible. 50 dives is nothing. If this were a port or an oring, I'd be more inclined to side with gates but this is a control that is made for use. While they might have a great reputation, I think if I were in the video market right now I'd have to consider someone else.

[Nick Hope 151]

A wrench is what happens to your guts when you watch a sad or scary film isn't it?

[jonny shaw 16]

A wrench is what happens to your guts when you watch a sad or scary film isn't it?

 

So what happened to spanners!!!

[TheRealDrew 0]

While they might have a great reputation, I think if I were in the video market right now I'd have to consider someone else.

 

And if they made housings for still cameras or strobes or anything related to underwater imaging I would consider them and no one else based on every experience I have had with them. They really go out of the way to help customers, at least upon my experience. The reason I chose Gates is because I learned on that and a couple of other brands. A DM told me that they did have one issue with a Gates Housing, the DM sent it in and Gates replaced the camera for them when Gates said it looked like there was a bad housing (this was awhile ago.) Since then I have had a couple of them, and Pam, John and the rest of Gates go way above and beyond - at least they have for me. YMMV.

[Brumpy 6]

All that white crud would suggest lack of cleansing post dive, which if i were Gates would suggest lack of maintenance.

 

Stew

 

The housing is cleaned like crazy, even after the flood!

The "whit crud" is just dust or somthing it went in a box to GATES and back!

And Gates made a report (that you can read in the 1st posting) and did't not say enything about lack of maintenance!

I have no idee how much more i can clean the housing! i clean it after every dive and after every trip i put it in a bad with water where i gife it a nice treat like a baby!

[pmooney 6]

ENOUGH OF THIS DENIAL RUBBISH.

 

Get over it - you have had a partial

Now get ready for your next one - hope and pray it's as minor as this one.

 

If your really bothered about the possibilities you could always install ( and use ) a Gates Seal Check

or even safer leave your camera and housing the boat.

 

Doesn't matter how you look at it, or the excuses you make the user is always responsible for ensuring the equipment is waterproof and ready to dive with.

[Drew 0]

Ok people,

Disagree with Bruno but please keep it civil. We at Wetpixel encourage everyone to write about their issues and discover what went wrong.

While I do think this issue must be resolved between Gates and Bruno, the fact is Bruno brought information that may help prevent a flood in other people's rigs.

So please keep your comments civil.

[Brumpy 6]

ENOUGH OF THIS DENIAL RUBBISH.

 

Get over it - you have had a partial

Now get ready for your next one - hope and pray it's as minor as this one.

 

If your really bothered about the possibilities you could always install ( and use ) a Gates Seal Check

or even safer leave your camera and housing the boat.

 

Doesn't matter how you look at it, or the excuses you make the user is always responsible for ensuring the equipment is waterproof and ready to dive with.

 

DENIAL RUBBISH!?!?

 

I had a flood beginning of this year my Z1 flooded in my Light and Motion housing!

There was only one guy responsible and that was me!!! i was and still am angry like crazy after 3,5 years using that housing and camera, to do a stupid mistake with that result (camera dead and also electronica from LMI dead) i never looked for ecxuses i just banged my head to the wall :-)

And now this happens to me les then 6 months later, i do not believe this is my fault this time, and that is what i am asking here, is it to much to try to be politely?

And some people are agree with me there is somthing wrong! do you always react like this when people are not agree with what you are thinking?

This is a forum and that is where people have discussions with diffrent opinions if you have problems with that do not read forums and go diving instead :-)

[Steve Douglas 16]

Yes, of course, we all need to keep things civil. Mr. Mooney was just being overly enthusiastic with his disagreement.

 

I do have a question regarding the Gates housings. Are there things on or in the housing that should be checked but can not be? If so, than that would raise legit questions regarding responsibility and QS.

Steve

[JohnE 8]

Greetings to all,

 

I just returned from vacation to this post and have some comments that may be helpful.

 

· Despite the unfortunate circumstance of Bruno’s flood, we remain committed his success with the EX1 housing. Our findings on this matter have already been posted, so I will comment no further in this forum. His housing has been inspected, repaired, tested, cleaned and returned to him – all at no cost.

 

· As highlighted by several members, conventional use of underwater equipment includes inspections and checks. To this extent Gates user manuals (Setup, Use and Care Guide and Housing Care and Maintenance Guide) cover the importance of such pre-dive measures.

 

· Ideally it should be unnecessary to perform a gland check, but clearly other factors outside our control remain. For example, the increasing rate of damage incurred by security and customs make such pre-use inspections ever more important (TSA is responsible for more than $10K damage to our own equipment). Practically speaking, then, it would be wise to perform a gland check upon reaching your destination and prior to diving. We will add this to our user manuals.

 

· A Gland Check is straightforward: lightly attempt to turn them with your fingers. If you cannot, go no further. If the gland is obviously loose, tightening them is appropriate, and will not void your warranty – if performed properly. Excessive torque or improper tools can cause damage, so contact Gates for guidance. As always, support is available by phone or email.

 

John

[pmooney 6]

Thanks for the understanding - please don't mistake my empathy for your situation vs the reality.

 

Reality is that this piece of equipment went into the water and shortly thereafter had a moisture issue.

 

Empathy say's my pocket book and budget's feel for you.

 

At the end of the day it has little to do with the housing company and a lot to do with the user.

 

[Drew 0]

· As highlighted by several members, conventional use of underwater equipment includes inspections and checks. To this extent Gates user manuals (Setup, Use and Care Guide and Housing Care and Maintenance Guide) cover the importance of such pre-dive measures.

 

· Ideally it should be unnecessary to perform a gland check, but clearly other factors outside our control remain. For example, the increasing rate of damage incurred by security and customs make such pre-use inspections ever more important (TSA is responsible for more than $10K damage to our own equipment). Practically speaking, then, it would be wise to perform a gland check upon reaching your destination and prior to diving. We will add this to our user manuals.

 

· A Gland Check is straightforward: lightly attempt to turn them with your fingers. If you cannot, go no further. If the gland is obviously loose, tightening them is appropriate, and will not void your warranty – if performed properly. Excessive torque or improper tools can cause damage, so contact Gates for guidance. As always, support is available by phone or email.

 

John

 

John

Thanks for chiming in. Please drop a link for the updated PDF user manual when it's done.

Unfortunately some users are uncomfortable/unwilling to do these things themselves and also usually will not have the proper tools to do them. Can Gates provide a tool (wrench/spanner) for the glands or at least give the tool size in the updated manual?

I understand it is difficult to ascertain the cause of the loosening of the glands. Out of curiosity and if it's not confidential, how often does that happen (as in how many customers complain about loose glands )?

[Neptune7 0]

I understand it is difficult to ascertain the cause of the loosening of the glands. Out of curiosity and if it's not confidential, how often does that happen (as in how many customers complain about loose glands )?

 

Drew, do you really expect Gates to give you an honest answer? If there was many complaining customers, it would give Bruno ammunition and put Gates on the grill.

 

After reading all this, my conclusion is that the Gates EX1 housing has unreliable parts and is very high maintenance. Not for me.

 

Pierre

[Drew 0]

Pierre, that is your perogative to choose where you want to spend your money.

All I can say is I've dealt with John on a professional level and have found him to be more than forthright when it comes to this sort of thing. I'm not expecting him to publicly disclose confidential information but then again Gates has issued service announcements before regarding several issues on the EX1 housing. They could've done it quietly but they chose to announce on WP for no other reason than to reach as many customers as quickly as possible.

I, for one, give Gate the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this sort of thing, where there is no clear cut evidence.

We have to realize housings are precision instruments, and with any precision instrument put in harsh environments like airline cargo holds, boats etc, there is a possibility of things going bad. The more precise the instrument, the higher likelihood of high maintenance. This is not a small consumer camcorder with 3 functions. And fyi, one manufacturer (not Gates) which has "fuss free" plug and play failed on me so many times, I complained to the manufacturer, only to be told I was using it too often?!?

This particular issue is about the product/manufacturer's initial quality release and subsequent user maintenance. It'd be pretty unrealistic to think that Gates would be able to anticipate every problem that can occur and put a warning in the manual, which would then be so thick I'd scream about fallen trees. And how many actually read past how to operate the housing? Especially experienced shooters who think they know how to take care of housings?

It's also fair to assume that the housing when delivered to the user works according to specs, which in the case of Bruno meant 50+ dives over several months and different destinations . From my own personal experience, hand carrying the housing doesn't necessarily protect the housing from damage, even in first class.

I think John admits that checking the glands is now part of prep work and will add an addendum to the manuals. I do dislike making assumptions with no data on either side. I trust both sides are telling the truth (neither have a reason to lie), but I didn't see the housing or how Bruno preps it. Nor did I inspect the housing after the flood and what Gates actually fixed. Why jump to conclusions on minimal data?

I do hope people realize the bigger cameras require more maintenance. Obviously, the manufacturers are not absolved from their responsibility to produce working housings. Let's not judge either side without proper information.

For me, I've learnt to check the housing glands more often. And I have Bruno to thank for that and I think Gates should thank him too for bringing an important maintenance essential to their attention.

[ce4jesus 1]

Drew,

We're only human and draw conclusions based on the facts given. I read above "For example, the increasing rate of damage incurred by security and customs make such pre-use inspections ever more important (TSA is responsible for more than $10K damage to our own equipment)." It is pretty easy to blame the 3rd party which no one cares for anyway. I think this is a little bit of a cop-out. If the item was damaged during transit wouldn't that be evident? From what I've read from Bruno's and Gate's account leads me to think the gland worked its way free after normal use or after vibrations due to transit. In either case, isn't this unacceptable for a part of a case not designed for regular (pre-dive check type of) maintenance? I get a little tired of people always jumping to the defense of the manufacturer in these cases. If we just throw our hands in the air and say everything that goes in the water is going to get wet then we will continue to get the type of equipment that will fulfill our expectations. On Gate's part I'm happy to see they came on here to addres the issue and that they're adding a blurb to the manual This at least shows a willingness to prevent future failures and a commitment to address issues rather than dodge them.

[Neptune7 0]

For me, I've learnt to check the housing glands more often. And I have Bruno to thank for that and I think Gates should thank him too for bringing an important maintenance essential to their attention.

 

Yeah! But at what cost for Bruno (not Gates)?

Pierre