rlx 0 Posted October 29, 2009 Hi, I am primarily a stills photographer (currently shooting with a housed Canon 40D) but also require video for some customers. Previously I have hired video gear when required, but the time has come to bite the bullet and purchase. As my skill and experience mainly lies in still photography I wonder whether I should keep it simpler with a Sony HDR-CX500, or considering I already have an investment in good lenses, I should get the Canon 7D? Video quality is more important than having everything in one housing, but having everything in one housing would certainly be handy! The video is potentially for broadcast use in addition to a DVD production. I could always hang off and go back to hiring until there are more developments as far as the converging technologies are concerned but that is always the case...always something new on the horizon. Thanks in advance for any help / insights / thoughts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimonSpear 65 Posted October 29, 2009 I've got a 7D and it can produce some jaw dropping images, however it is not like picking up a camcorder and going off to film with it. You really need to set up each shot and have a high degree of control of your subject. In my opinion it's more suitable to studio type work where everything is storyboarded and you know exactly what shots you need, rather than natural history work where you may not even know what story you'll come across that day. Those are general rules, but nothing is impossible of course. I've used the 7D for the last two weeks as a complimentary camera to my V1 for topside shooting. In that capacity it worked fantastically and produced some images that knocked the spots off those ones captured by the V1. Would I have been happy without taking the V1 and just taking the 7D? Absolutely no way and if I had to choose one camera to take I'd have taken the V1. Two working examples. Example A: Hermit crabs fighting over a new shell on the beach. The 7D performed superbly. With a 100mm EF macro lens the images were outstanding. The subjects didn't move very far, I was able to set up the shots (although not easily) and get the images I wanted. Example B: Juvenile Sharks swimming in a shallow lagoon filmed from the surface while wading in the water. The 7D just wouldn't cut it, using a combination of the 100mm EF lens above, a 55-200mm EF IS zoom lens and a 17-55mm zoom lens. There was constant movements and changes in the distance of the subjects. I had to go back to shore to keep changing lenses to try different approaches. With the CMOS jello effect (massive problem on the 7D compared to a camcorder with a CMOS sensor) and the shallow DOF of some of the lenses I was using it was impossible to get the shots I needed even after trying for a couple of hours. I do have a 70-400mm telephoto lens, but didn't have that with me at the time and can't image in would have been practical to use. I eventually changed cameras to the V1 and got all the shots I needed within 5 minutes. Hope this helps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pmooney 6 Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) The excitement that the convergence of these technologies has created is previously unheralded. I think it is important to take a step back from the hype and ask yourself is this the best option for me. Will it have a positive effect on my productivity - is my skill set sufficient to drive this camera in a fully manualy fully productive mode - can I follow focus or pull focus in this shot with out taking any exposure / shutter speed considerations in to being. Will the workflow that is required be conducive to the style of filmmaking I have in mind. If it not YES to all of these answers that the answer is NO. You would better off with a video camera that you can configure in a partially or full manual or totally auto manner. My 2 cents - shoot me down Edited October 29, 2009 by pmooney Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimonSpear 65 Posted October 29, 2009 Will it have a positive effect on my productivity - is my skill set sufficient to drive this camera in a fully manualy fully productive mode - can I follow focus or pull focus in this shot with out taking any exposure / shutter speed considerations in to being. Will the workflow that is required be conducive to the style of filmmaking I have in mind. I agree 100%, but it is not necessarily do you have the skill set to make manual adjustments, but more will the cameras form factor allow you to make them on the fly? There are a lot of 3rd party add ons for the 5DmkII for follow focus, matte boxes, viewfinders and even HDMI monitors, but even with all those gadgets you'll still be better off sometimes with a purpose built camcorder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeanB 19 Posted October 29, 2009 HIRE !!! ... You know it makes sense Dive safe DeanB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ferg42 13 Posted October 29, 2009 I agree with most of what has been said here. I have both a 5D II and a 7D, plus a small sony HD camcorder. I would say that the DSLRs are fairly easy to set up for video underwater with a fisheye, as you can just lock focus and the DOF is pretty wide. If you like to do a lot of macro video, then the SLRs are trickier, especially if the subjects are moving. With the narrow DOF, critical focus is harder to acheive than it is with camcoders. With intermediate focal lengths the focus on the SLRs will also take some getting used to, and will be most forgiving if you can shut down the aperture. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimonSpear 65 Posted October 30, 2009 HIRE !!! ... You know it makes sense Not always mate. If you had to hire me for 4 months at my daily rate then it would probably cost you more than it would to buy me outright for a one off payment... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeanB 19 Posted October 30, 2009 Not always mate. If you had to hire me for 4 months at my daily rate then it would probably cost you more than it would to buy me outright for a one off payment... EOS 5D MK11 £175-£200 per week ... your photography skills Simon... Hmmmmm... £50 per week ... Dive safe DeanB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scaper 2 Posted October 30, 2009 I have to agree with Simon. I have the 5D II, an HC-7, and Canon Xh-A1. The 5dII can produce stunning images in certain situations, but it is also pretty easy to get some truly ugly footage (CMOS wobble or aliasing or other artifact issues with scenes having too much detail and motion.). While the bit rate of the 5D II and 7D codec is very high, it is apparently one of the least efficient flavors of the H264 codec, so there can be some compression artifacts and loss of detail in some situations). People who are patient and learn how to get around the limitations are producing beautiful clips. I have been thinking that I may not even bother getting an underwater housing for the 5D II, because I'm not sure I want to deal with the new challenges. Ferg, I have the HC-7 and Gates housing and was wondering how the 5D II shots compare with that set up. Pat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimonSpear 65 Posted October 30, 2009 EOS 5D MK11 £175-£200 per week ... your photography skills Simon... Hmmmmm... £50 per week ... Dive safe DeanB Bloody hell mate, no need to price me THAT high. You'll price me out of the market!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rlx 0 Posted October 30, 2009 Thanks for all the great comments...sounds like it will be the Sony CX500 or a good rental Sony HC? setup...then maybe wait to see what the next round of DSLR's bring in video capabilities before I contemplate an upgrade to my 40D. I must admit the thought of the 7D with a fisheye on the front sounded like it could be the go, but if the processing is also going to need a lot extra careful attention... Thanks again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike L 0 Posted October 31, 2009 I think it depends on your ultimate goal. if you are a consumer just looking for quick videos clips, the 5d II and 7D work fairly well, as does any of the HD camcorders. As far documenting action, being a creative videographer, and looking for quality, I think the VDSLRs are still no where near up to par with the camcorders today. Ease of use is definitely not there, including ergonomics. And the quality, I just do not see is there. I spent a week shooting the EX1, HF S10, and the 5d MarkII side by side. The EX1 blue them both away without question. The HF S10 video was definitely easier to use and better quality than the 5d2. The 5d2 was definitely nice in that I could take video clips in between my focus on the stills, but the quality was not there...and that was with the 16-35 II lens. My take is still, if you want to shoot video, buy a VIDEO camera. If you want to be a still photographer but have the ability to capture video on occasion, then a VDSLR is a great way to go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ferg42 13 Posted October 31, 2009 Pat, In terms of the image quality, I've found very little to complain about with either the 5DII setup or the Sony HC7 in Gates, when the light is good. Both produce very nice shots. The HC7 will probably give you more versatility in terms of focal lenght on one dive (especially if you have the SWP25). But the 5DII will give you a cleaner image in low light. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scaper 2 Posted November 2, 2009 Pat,In terms of the image quality, I've found very little to complain about with either the 5DII setup or the Sony HC7 in Gates, when the light is good. Both produce very nice shots. The HC7 will probably give you more versatility in terms of focal lenght on one dive (especially if you have the SWP25). But the 5DII will give you a cleaner image in low light. Thanks Ferg. Pat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drew 0 Posted November 2, 2009 It really depends on what kind of capture you require. The images from the ViDSLR are certainly good enough for standard definition DVD (although the latitude is a bit limited). I know more than a few guys who shoot with ViDSLR for commercial work (DVD/web content) and have very good results. A ViDSLR allows you a plethora of lens options and shooting options, but it has limitations, some of which have been mentioned by others here. You also have to consider the depth of field focus issues, esp underwater. It's not the same as a 7x crop 1/3" sensor. If you've never worked with 35mm filmmaking, it'll take a while to get use to shooting underwater, the possible exception being the fisheye lens. I suggest you check out Christian Fletcher's work on the True North boat. He uses the ViDSLR strengths and avoids the weaknesses. The low noise of the video is something important for natural light video shooters, especially since they have to shoot at f8-16 or be very skillful at focus pulling on the housings (which for many housings is usually on the port or port ring, which makes it harder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
