WING BCD VS REGULAR BCD

[scorpio_fish 5]

If I clip my very negative camera rig to a d-ring near my a**, I will float upright after losing consciousness.

 

I like back inflate. I prefer the comfort underwater over the comfort at the surface. One can float on one's back if you take enough air out of the wing, although the camera rig itself can be a hindrance. The smaller the wing, the better.

 

Significant time on the surface in rough seas is not typical of the diving I do. If it were, I might have a different preference.

 

My goal for 2010 is to piece together a back inflate system with weight integration and proper d-rings and lift that weighs in at 2.2 kgs or less dry.

[Deep6 7]

My goal for 2010 is to piece together a back inflate system with weight integration and proper d-rings and lift that weighs in at 2.2 kgs or less dry.

Mares Pegasus?

Bob

[MIKE POWELL 1]

I recently purchased a ScubaPro Classic Plus after using a jacket type BC for years and then switching to a rear inflate BC when I got into photography. I'm sure I could have become accustomed to the rear inflate or wing type if I dove more often, but my experience with shore dives and poor navigation skills caused me to do more surface swims with the rear inflate than I like to admit which seemed to give me major calve cramps. Anyway the Classic Plus is suppose to be the best of both worlds....we'll see if it does the trick or not.

 

Mike

[scorpio_fish 5]

Mares Pegasus?

Bob

 

Mares Pegasus = 7.7lbs. with 44lbs. of lift.

[eyu 27]

I just changed to a regular BCD and picked up a Cressi travelight that weighs 5.7 lbs.

 

Elmer

[ce4jesus 1]

I've used both and as a preference I prefer the jacket style. I have a Mares Dragon which I like a lot. It is one of the supposed hybrid styles but I find it more like a jacket. I had a back inflation but found it uncomfortable at the surface even at the start of the dive it was difficult to stay upright. This was even with the heaviest of my weight in the rear pockets. Additionally a photographer in the water usually isn't streamlined but has no problem keeping a prone diving position due to the additional weight of the camera.

[Deep6 7]

My goal for 2010 is to piece together a back inflate system with weight integration and proper d-rings and lift that weighs in at 2.2 kgs or less dry.

Please post if you find such a critter.

Bob

[Drew 0]

The Aqualung Zuma is 4.2 lbs (I weighed it myself) for a M/L. It's backinflation with no backplate. Flimsy plastic D rings but man is it light! I will buy one once one of my rigs get stolen or broken (but I've been say that for years and they won't go anywhere!) It does fit my carry everything you need as hand luggage packability criteria. But I haven't gone to those sort of places for a while.

Now for proper D ringed, I also tried the Seacsub icaro. Really liked it, especially the design. First time my gf called a BC sexy! Weighs in at 2.7kg for a M/L. I'd just add a thin Dive Rite Crotch strap (and cut off that scooter ring).

[stewsmith 14]

Scubapro Knighthawk for me. Very light compared to my older T52. Very well made. Fitted with Air2. Nice and streamlined, great for finning in currents as drag is next to nothing. Whatever you buy, make sure it fits !!!!!

 

Stew

[offthegrid 0]

I know this is an old one, but **** this argument annoys me!

 

You're unconscious on the surface. Do you want to be floating face up or face down? Wings - face down, jacket style - face up. Just something to consider.

Spoken like a true diver who's never even dove one.

 

As other have noted the argument that is often used against backplates is the theory that they push you face down in the water. To be honest I never noticed a difference in surface stability/position from backplates to jacket styles. I think this is an unsubstantiated rumour that has become gospel through repetition.

Couldn't agree more. And mostly through repetition on message board by people who never even used one or best, maybe tried it on one dive. Just about everyone in the NE dives a wing, and I've not heard anyone complain about floating face down.

 

Sometimes, rumors begin from truths too. It's plain physics. If you have no rear weight balance, and all the weight is on your waist and inflation is behind you, you will tip forward. That's why quite a few people use them, to stay more horizontal, face forward. That's why there are trim weight pockets to fine tune the balance.

Internet physics has nothing on real world testing by thousands of divers.

 

For those of you who have actually used one and experienced the face down thing, I think your rig needed tuning. You were either over weighted, needed your weights distributed better, tank moved, or something else. Since I've made the switch, I've dove 3 different wings, with both AL and SS plates, singles, doubles, and rebreather for a short while, and never been face down...even with my camera rig clipped to a D ring. If I inflate the wing all the way (even a 40# doubles wing, with a single AL tank) I can lean back and almost lay on it like a small raft. Yet once below the surface, I'm horizontal, and can get in just about any position I want.

Edited November 12, 2010 by grunzster

[ChrigelKarrer 52]

I only made the OWD course and then switched to a ss backplate 40lbs bladder wing.

I also own a Zeagle Ranger and a Scubapro Knighthawk wing bcd and i use them for giving diving lessons as using a wing with beginners is not really recommened.

I belive that a 40lbs bladder with a steel tank and a SS backplate provide enough "back"lift to avoid to tip over but this depend also on wet/drysuit and weightdistibution.

I also belive that a normal jacket style bcd will lead also to drowning because the head of a uncosious person will turn left or right and so he may inhale water as well.

If a jacket style bcd is not fully inflated the diver may flip over and drown as well.

The only BCD's i know who keep a unconscious diver in a "safe" position are Adjustable Buoyancy Life Jackets, ABLJs, or Horsecollar BC.

In the manual of almost all jackets - wings included - style bcd's is written that the are not a flotation device and that the don't keep divers ead out of the water.

 

I prefer my ss backplate wing as it provides me with the - for me - right weight distribution.

The weight of a short 12liter steel tank and the ss backplate give ma a ¯I___o position with the fins high up to avoid touching something and stir up sediments.

 

Chris

Edited November 12, 2010 by ChrigelKarrer

[MIKE POWELL 1]

Who said this was an argument?

 

CHILL and dive with whatever BC works best for YOU!

 

NE divers...'git outa here wid dat'!??

 

quote name='grunzster' date='Nov 12 2010, 09:20 AM' post='265869']

I know this is an old one, but **** this argument annoys me!

 

Spoken like a true diver who's never even dove one.

 

Couldn't agree more. And mostly through repetition on message board by people who never even used one or best, maybe tried it on one dive. Just about everyone in the NE dives a wing, and I've not heard anyone complain about floating face down.

 

Internet physics has nothing on real world testing by thousands of divers.

 

For those of you who have actually used one and experienced the face down thing, I think your rig needed tuning. You were either over weighted, needed your weights distributed better, tank moved, or something else. Since I've made the switch, I've dove 3 different wings, with both AL and SS plates, singles, doubles, and rebreather for a short while, and never been face down...even with my camera rig clipped to a D ring. If I inflate the wing all the way (even a 40# doubles wing, with a single AL tank) I can lean back and almost lay on it like a small raft. Yet once below the surface, I'm horizontal, and can get in just about any position I want.

[offthegrid 0]

Who said this was an argument?

 

CHILL and dive with whatever BC works best for YOU!

 

NE divers...'git outa here wid dat'!??

It's only an argument in the sense that people continue to post the same BS over and over again that simply isn't based in any fact. Otherwise, I agree 100%. Dive whatever works the best for you. I'm personally going through a transition with my own gear right now.

 

I didn't mean that as "us big tough macho NE divers" or however it was you took that. I was simply trying to make the point, that "A LOT" of divers from where I'm from dive them, and not once have I heard some one complain about the mystery face down in the water thing.

[tangler 0]

My single tank setup is:

 

SS backplate

weighted single tank adapter

30lb Oxycheq Mach V wing (love this baby)

basic hog harness

 

Before switching to above I used a Scubapro stab jacket BCD for many years following by a Zeagle Ranger. The latter was OK, but overkill: too much lift, too much bulk, too many "bits". I'd never go back now. I find the BP/wing so comfortable, secure feeling, uncluttered, and streamlined. For travel I can ditch the STA and swap out the SS plate for an ultra-lightweight one. The whole rig weights next to nothing and packs down small. I've also never had a problem with being pushed forward at the surface. I think this stems from too much air in the bladder. If you only inflate enough to raise the head out of the water there's no issue. I also don't miss BC pockets at all. I always found them in an awkward place and a bit of a fumble to use. Thigh pockets at the right level are the only way to go.

 

My 2¢

 

~Dave

[wizbowes 0]

Never really understood this argument from either point of view. I dive in a BCD but never put any air in it unless I have a wait on the surface. If I'm putting air in my bcd whilst diving then I'm overweighted (single tank set-up). Therefore my position in the water is determined only by the position of my trim weights. Am I missing something?

[tdpriest 115]

Am I missing something?

 

Yes. Cold-water diving in a wetsuit!

 

Tim

 

[eyu 27]

Never really understood this argument from either point of view. I dive in a BCD but never put any air in it unless I have a wait on the surface. If I'm putting air in my bcd whilst diving then I'm overweighted (single tank set-up). Therefore my position in the water is determined only by the position of my trim weights. Am I missing something?

 

The discussion digressed, but it was about vest vs wing BC preference and how you float on the surface.

 

I switched over from a wing to a vest because the vest would allow me to get my head and shoulders higher out of the water in swells so I could see and be seen by the panga boatman. I could be vertical in a back wing BC, but if I added air to try to raise my head higher I got pitched forward. In calm seas both types of BCs work well, but in 3 to 5 foot chop I feel it is an advantage to be higher out of the water.

 

Elmer

Edited January 4, 2011 by eyu

[wizbowes 0]

Yes. Cold-water diving in a wetsuit!

 

Rumbled. Warm water only thanks

 

[ileiman 2]

hi guys. looking to buy a new bcd. never dived with a wing design before and am thinking about purchasing one.

what bcd are you using?

how would you rate its durability?

is it a wing design?

how do you like it?

how could it be better?

I have and use both a jacket style BCD and a wing.

A jacket-BCD I use on diving trips to tropical warm waters, where usually only a single tank is provided, and diving is in wetsuit. On tropical waters I prefer diving coral reefs and photographing marine life.

At home in Finland I dive in a drysuit, double tanks, and a wing-style BCD attached to a webbing harness and backplate. In Finland I dive the Baltic Sea, and there mostly diving is on wrecks. The water is cold and visibility poor. All of the wreck diving needs to be done from boats and using lines marking or attached to the wrecks.

 

I recently changed my BCD to a lighter Aqualung Zuma, that weighs only 2 kg, my previous Suunto BCD was well over 4 kg. The Suunto was really durable and still in excellent condition despite of heavy use when I sold it. I prefer to use a jacket style BCD with integrated weight pockets on trips to tropical waters as I feel it is simple, easy and comfortable to use overall in those conditions and is familiar type of equipment there. Like somebody already noted, when you have just the right amount of lead on you, the BCD hardly ever gets inflated during the dive. It gets inflated only when you need to float or swim on surface, which is something I try to avoid in general - after all diving is about being under the surface. I hate weight belts, so the integrated weight pockets are a must. Typically I need 3 to 5 kg depending on tank. I also like to keep a spare mask with me in a pocket. And other useful stuff like SMB - and a camera of course.

 

As a wing I have an Agir with 56 lbs lift, with aluminium backplate, 2x10/200 steel tanks on back. As I hate weight belts, I have weight pockets attached to the harness waist straps, but otherwise the harness is very basic "DIR"-style. The amount of lead depends on how cold the water is and thus how much clothing you need under the drysuit and can vary between 8 to 12 kg. With a drysuit, some part, or all, of your buoyancy control is done with the drysuit, and if weighting is otherwise well balanced, then the wing doesn't get inflated much while diving, but is rather used at surface. Due to the procedure how wrecks are dived on the Baltic Sea, there is generally a lot of swimming on the surface. My configuration - and all other similar ones I have seen so far - keeps me floating very comfortably on my back on the surface, and there is no risk of drowning face down as some have suggested. The most comfortable way to swim on surface is on your back. On many rescue drills done with this type of configuration, I have experienced no problems lifting an unconscious diver to the surface, and keeping him/her in a safe position on surface while giving artificial respiration and towing towards safety. Getting yourself into and out of DIR harness in a drysuit quickly does require a lot practice, but you can learn it.

With double tanks and drysuit this type of configuration is comfortable, stable, secure and keeps you in a good trim. I wouldn't trust a jacket-style BCD to hold heavy double tanks that typically are 40 kg or more. And even less for holding possible sidemounted deco/stage bottles.

 

On tropical waters I feel this type of configuration on the other hand is a total overkill, and I truly enjoy the lightness and easy feeling of diving in a shorty wetsuit, no hood, no gloves, closed heel fins, single tank, easy BCD to get on and off - not to mention the warm and clear water...