INON UFL-MR130 EFS60 Underwater Micro Semi-Fisheye Relay Lens in Action!

[cho 0]

Great stuff Cho, Love the Tokina shots. Were the camera settings the same? shutter speed, etc.

 

Cheers,

Steve

Thank you

 

I wil put the data. All those are a littlle bit different in meta data. So , it was not absolute comparision. Next week , I will try absolute compare with same stuffs and shutter speed , f stop ect...

[wackydiver 0]

OH! this is great subject. I'm want to expand my lens stock and want a wide angle or slightly fisheye type lens. Thought maybe the Tonika 11x16 and want some other suggestions. Shooting a D200 in a Sea and Sea housing with one strobe right now. I have loved my shots with 60 and 105 lenses and have added a 2X screw on the lens diopter. Now just want to be more artsy and do some more wide angle macro. Looks like your 10X17 is doing a good job. Any more hints? Marilyn

[stever 0]

these are great shots. maybe it's the focusing, but i like the 10-17 better

 

motivates me to try a 1.4x on the 11-16

[stever 0]

what, if anything did you do about a zoom gear when adding the 1.4x? or did you choose a focal length, what focal length are these shots?

 

what kind of dome with the 10-17?

[cho 0]

what, if anything did you do about a zoom gear when adding the 1.4x? or did you choose a focal length, what focal length are these shots?

 

what kind of dome with the 10-17?

 

 

Thankyou

 

I used nexus dome port , exclusive use for 10-17 plus extension ring and, also have zoom gear for this setting, and focal lenth was 17 mm, thank you

Edited January 9, 2010 by cho

[Alex_Mustard 0]

Great stuff, Cho. I think we should merge this with the other thread on the INON lens - so that all the info is in one place for future reference.

 

I imagine many people will be buying and trying this lens during 2010, so it would be good to have one authoritative thread - all the info in one place.

 

Alex

 

p.s. I will try and merge it - but I am not very good with the merge controls.

[Drew 0]

If the pinocchio works with the EFS60mm only then a full frame camera like the 5D2 can use a 12mm extension tube on the 60mm. Now the issue of it working on other ports is getting adapters made for it. I'm actually wondering why Canon was chosen . Is it because of the 1.6 crop?

[loftus 42]

If the problem with the Nikon is vignetting, can the image not be cropped? Would it work with the Nikon 35mm Macro DX?

Sharpness with this setup seems to be limited, from the images posted, particularly for large prints.

Edited January 9, 2010 by loftus

[nathanm 0]

If the pinocchio is works with the EFS60mm only then a full frame camera like the 5D2 can use a 12mm extension tube on the 60mm. Now the issue of it working on other ports is getting adapters made for it. I'm actually wondering why Canon was chosen . Is it because of the 1.6 crop?

This sort of relay lens creates an "aerial image" which is then captured on the sensor using a conventional lens on the camera body. The aerial image appears to the lens on the camera body like it was an object within the focus distance. This is similar to what happens with dome ports - the dome is a lens that creates an aerial image that the wide angle lens on the camera then images. You sometimes need close up diopters because the aerial image from the dome can be closer than the lens normally focuses.

 

Inon had to chose some host camera/lens configuration to optimize this for and pretty much make it dedicated. Since Inon only makes housings for Canon 40D/50D and Olympus, they had a pretty restricted set of choices. Between the two, Canon is probably has higher sales and the 60mm EF-S lens may be a better base than the Olympus equivalent.

 

Presumably it will work on other housings with the same Canon 60mm EF-S lens if there is a port adapter that keeps the relay lens in the exact position relative to the camera lens as on the Inon housing.

 

I doubt that it will work if you use an extention tube to mate the 60mm lens onto a full-frame Canon camera. The relay lens puts the aerial image in a particular location and with a 12mm extension tube the focusing of the 60mm lens will be shifted.

 

If there was an adapter to use small sensor Canon lenses on full frame Canon bodies, which focussed at infinity, then that could work, but it would not cover the full sensor. That would be OK with me, but I have not found such an adapter. Surprisingly, you can get adapters to mount many other lenses on Canon cameras - including Nikon, Pentax and Leica SLR. There is very little reason to do this in most cases but people have the made the adapters anyway. Unfortunately they don't have an adapter to mount a Canon EF-S lens on a EOS body.

 

There are two reasons for this. The first is that an EF-S lens will vignettte on a full frame sensor. The second is that the rear part of the lens might hit the mirror. The EF-S lenses assume a smaller mirror, and there could be a physical collision. A crazy approach is to modify the 60mm EF-S lens. There are people who do this, as a sort of camera hacking - here is a thread thos shows somebody doing it. Whether this works with the 60mm is unclear, and trying it could well damage both the lens and the camera.

 

Using it with a different lens than the Canon 60mm EF-S is likely to mess things up. It probably will work to some degree with a different macro lenses but image quality is likely to suffer. Presumably some enterprising wetpixelers will do some experiments.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that a "60mm" lens from Canon or Nikon does not necessarily have a true 60mm focal length - they round the number up or down for marketing purposes. A "60mm" lens might be anywhere from 57mm to 63mm in terms of the actual focal length. This does not matter for most purposes but even small differences may cause problems with using a similar Nikon macro lens that has a different focal length and different field of view because the sensor size is also likely be slightly different. Vignetting is one risk, but that is not the end of the world. Inon may well have adapted the design to match the 60mm EF-S lens quite closely, and if so then you might see more abberations. The only way to find out will be to try it.

 

The quality of the Inon lens is not outstanding to begin with - although to be fair, most wide angle lenses have poor corner sharpness when used in a dome port. The dome itself is a kind of a relay lens too. Anytime we take pictures underwater we are compromising the quality compared to topside. When you start doing things like adding a teleconverter to a wide angle fisheye in a dome port (one alternative to the Inon) you're doing a lot of violence to the optical train, and you can't expect perfect quality there either, especially at the edge of the frame.

 

Depth of field is always an issue with macro, but when you have a narrow angle of view it doesn't come up so much. With this lens DOF will be an issue, and most of the photos seem to be taken at f/16 to f/22. At those apertures the main thing limiting the quality will be diffraction. Your fancy N megapixel sensor will actually be resolving more like a 1.5 megapixel sensor at f/22, 3 megapixels at f/16 and 6 megapixels at f/11. That is just the physics of light, and it is equally true for the the Inon, or any other lens. When we stop way to down to get maximum depth of field it hurts the resolution. That's usually the right thing to do if you need the whole subject sharp.

 

Anyway, I have just ordered the Inon lens, to pair with Canon 7D in Nauticam housing. Which means I need to get a 7D just for using this lens, since I normally use 1Ds Mark III and 1D Mark III. Reef is putting it together for me, and they say they have a port adapter. If this works, it should be a great set up. I'll post about it once I get it, but I am told that won't be until some point in february,

[serge 2]

hi nathanm,

 

you say Reef has an adapter to use the INON port with Nauticam? Because i asked nauticam and could not get an answer.

Because i am getting the INON UFL MR130 for my INON Housing ... but i also want to get a 7D ... and i am worried about not being able anymore to use the INON Fisheye and all my MRS Ports properly?

 

Are you sure about that Port Adaptor?

 

Greets, Serge

[Drew 0]

I doubt that it will work if you use an extention tube to mate the 60mm lens onto a full-frame Canon camera. The relay lens puts the aerial image in a particular location and with a 12mm extension tube the focusing of the 60mm lens will be shifted.

I guess we can bug Ryan to try it on 60mm with extension tube for FF so some of us don't have to go out and buy a new rig just to fit this lens. The aerial or virtual image if it is within the focus range of the 60 with extension tube (on a FF it's about 2.5ft max focus distance) may work.

[cho 0]

Great stuff, Cho. I think we should merge this with the other thread on the INON lens - so that all the info is in one place for future reference.

 

I imagine many people will be buying and trying this lens during 2010, so it would be good to have one authoritative thread - all the info in one place.

 

Alex

 

p.s. I will try and merge it - but I am not very good with the merge controls.

 

 

Hi , Alex,

Absolutely I gree it,.Next week I have plan to go to anilao again, and will try to compare more by same meta data, stuffs.

[nathanm 0]

hi nathanm,

 

you say Reef has an adapter to use the INON port with Nauticam? Because i asked nauticam and could not get an answer.

Because i am getting the INON UFL MR130 for my INON Housing ... but i also want to get a 7D ... and i am worried about not being able anymore to use the INON Fisheye and all my MRS Ports properly?

 

Are you sure about that Port Adaptor?

 

Greets, Serge

I have an order in with Reef that is based on the existence of this port. Ryans says they will have it.

[nathanm 0]

I guess we can bug Ryan to try it on 60mm with extension tube for FF so some of us don't have to go out and buy a new rig just to fit this lens. The aerial or virtual image if it is within the focus range of the 60 with extension tube (on a FF it's about 2.5ft max focus distance) may work.

I think it is quite likely that something like this can work. It will take some experimentation to find the right combination of lens and distance from the lens. The issue will be how big can you make the aerial image, and can you focus on it. I would bet that means making a custom port.

 

It is certainly worth trying (first in air) to see. I have Canon and Nikon FF cameras and lense so I will certainly give it a shot myself when the lens comes.

[Tom_Kline 137]

This sort of relay lens creates an "aerial image" which is then captured on the sensor using a conventional lens on the camera body. The aerial image appears to the lens on the camera body like it was an object within the focus distance.

 

 

If this is so it should be possible to do other adaptations. The main issue might be that the Inon lens needs to be closer to the host lens than what is physically possible due to the space used up by the port and adapter. One should not give up just based on what is current; also attempt adapting with discontinued lenses should the new ones not be feasible. There is a host of older lenses, Nikkors as well as after-market models.

[davichin 18]

Since it is a manual focus lens, Inon could have made the lens for a nikon lens and everybody could have used it (since Canon users can use nikon lenses in manual focus with an adapter but Nikon cameras cannot use Canon lenses I am afraid)

[Drew 0]

Seeing how it attaches to the dedicated port for the 60, there must be a fixed distance for optimal performance. It's just a matter of getting the right extension port width to accomodate the 12mm extension tube while maintaining that distance. Shouldn't be too hard.

I'd be interested to see 100% crops of the corners from Eric's pics. I'll bug him on it.

[Ryan 48]

I don't have any Canon extension tubes, but if someone wants to send me one I'll try it.

 

We have tested most Nikon options, and haven't found a good fit yet. On some of the options that work, there is a reduction in fov.

 

I contend that this lens is most usable focused at infinite, where the fov is the widest and the fisheye effect is most apparent. This is not the way that many here are shooting the lens, which is interesting. Focused manually the fov decreases, and the images flatten out, which left me feeling like the same result could have been accomplished with a 100 macro.

[jordi 3]

Hi all,

 

After doing many tests I've got the solution of using the inon Lens with a Nikon camera. The solution was easier that I though but sometimes we use to start looking for in the most difficult side instead of try the easy way.

 

The Inon lens works awfully with Nikon 60 mm AFS, or 105mm VR but to my surprise it works pretty well with the old 60 mm AF macro. There's some corner softness but it is very sharp in the center.

Thanks to Jose Sanchez (www.sagadive.com) I have adapated the lens to a D300 housing. The port needs to be very well machined to align both lenses and avoid vignetting.

 

I attach a couple of samples that I took last week:

Edited January 13, 2010 by jordi

[Drew 0]

Jordi, at what focus distance do you see the best performance on the older 60mm micro? Is it possible for you to show some 100% crops of corners vs center as you did before? Thanks.

[jordi 3]

Hi Drew,

 

Sorry for the delay answering you.

The lens is sharpest at very close distances (1-3 cm). And that's more evident with Nikon. The background is completely out of focus with the Nikon. I have done pictures at f/25 with both systems at the same distances (Canon+60mm EF-S and Nikon+60mm AF), and the background is more out of focus with the Nikon combo.

 

I attach some crops of one of the images (the focus is on the fish mouth):

 

(To Eric: I was really shock when I saw my name on the front page this morning!! )

 

lower left corner

Edited January 14, 2010 by jordi

[aboshoff 1]

Is this Inon lens a housed Koheisha bug eye lens ?

[nathanm 0]

Is this Inon lens a housed Koheisha bug eye lens ?

Wow, I had never heard of the Koheisha lens, but just looked it up. It looks very cool - may need one of those too, for topside use.

 

I don't think that it is the same because the Koheisha lens does not seem to work with existing lenses. The Koheisha lens for Canon has a direct EOS mount, it does not use the 60mm Canon macro as an intermediate lens. Here is the detail page for it. So it must be a different optical design.

 

Also, the Koheisha lens displays an inverted image in the viewfinder ("A finder confirmation image is handstand"), unless you order the 45 degree ones that have an erecting prism.

 

Koheisha has an underwater version of their lens for Canon G10 build on Seatool housing. This looks a bit similar

[Drew 0]

This is the Koheisha in action. Looks great with the almost 3D look of the foreground objects.

 

[aboshoff 1]

This is the Koheisha in action. Looks great with the almost 3D look of the foreground objects.

 

 

 

We would love to see the pic Drew !