what shoots better video, the 7d or 5d mark II

[nextwave images 0]

I was reading in the comment section of a youtube video, that the 7D will out perform the 5d mark II in shooting video. Is this true?

 

Does the 7d out perform the 5dII in any other areas?

[Drew 0]

7D has 720/50/60p and 1080/29.97p. The resolution is about the same (about the same as 17mbps AVCHD but with less artifacting but a lot more aliasing and moire.) at 1080p except the 5D2 is at 30fps instead of 29.97, so it has to be conformed to 29.97 fps for DVD etc.

Noisewise, the 5D2 is better from ISO400 onwards, but not by a lot. DoF with a f1.2-1.4 lens is awesome on the 5D2 and middling on a 7D. FF 5D2 has truly wide rectilinear lenses like the 14mm, 16-35L II and 12-24 Sigma. 7D has fisheye only with a couple of 3rd party rectilinear lenses which aren't as wide as the FF ones.

Of course, the 7D is almost $1k cheaper so it's cheaper to have a 2nd camera.

 

Here's a side by side comparison on FOV with several Canon lenses:

 

[vimeohd]8212104[/vimeohd]

[Steve Douglas 16]

She's a cutie Drew!!

[Steve Douglas 16]

Drew,

Showed your footage to a diver friend who only shoots topside and he thought the 7D looked better.

Steve

[wagsy 0]

Well done professor Drew

Have ordered my 7D.

[Steve Douglas 16]

Hey Drew,

Do you see much difference in the stills they take?

Steve

[jonny shaw 16]

I'm pretty keen too as they would make topside interviews look fantastic. Used in conjunction with a camera with XLR's you would have a great little two camera shoot. I reckon I will just hire for the next 6 months as and when I need one and see what develops.

Amazing images though for such a decent price!

[Autopsea 7]

Nice tests

 

The 3D is incoming soon...

[SimonSpear 65]

LOL finally I get a decent internet connection after a month and I end up here! Seriously, can't I think of anything better to do??

 

I've been shooting topside with the 7D since October. When you can set up a shot you really can get some amazing images, but it is not a camcorder as most people would imagine it. You shoot full manual and the slightest movement will turn your images to jello. It's a great second cam to a XLR capable high end prosumer/low end professional camera for interviews or a great stand alone if all you want to shoot are landscapes with no movement. Yes you can do more than that, but it takes a lot of work, it really does. I think I said on here before that I spent over 2 hours trying to film juvenile blacktip reef sharks from the surface while they were swimming around in a shallow lagoon. After 2 hours with the 7D I didn't have a shot, so I waded ashore, picked up my V1 and got all the shots I needed within 10 mins. That sums up perfectly what it is really bad at. How will it perform underwater? Well of course that's the really big question. From my experience topside I'd say macro shot on a tripod, or ultra wide (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) angle shots would be amazing. I doubt it would be practical for anything else though.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers, Simon

 

--- edited out the word (weitwinkel) which for some reason was randomally put into the text!!! Bizarre!

 

--- 2nd edit oh no (weitwinkel) is still there and it wont go away!!!

 

---- 3rd edit hmmmmm (weitwinkel) is multiplying!! Someone stop it now!!

Edited January 6, 2010 by SimonSpear

[MikeVeitch 0]

hahahah.. wetwinkel

[james 0]

Ultra dash wide become weitwinkel (read the Seacam manual for a good laugh about this).

 

Cheers

James

[jonny shaw 16]

great feedback Simon.

 

Has was Indo?

[Drew 0]

I've been shooting topside with the 7D since October. When you can set up a shot you really can get some amazing images, but it is not a camcorder as most people would imagine it. You shoot full manual and the slightest movement will turn your images to jello. It's a great second cam to a XLR capable high end prosumer/low end professional camera for interviews or a great stand alone if all you want to shoot are landscapes with no movement. Yes you can do more than that, but it takes a lot of work, it really does. I think I said on here before that I spent over 2 hours trying to film juvenile blacktip reef sharks from the surface while they were swimming around in a shallow lagoon. After 2 hours with the 7D I didn't have a shot, so I waded ashore, picked up my V1 and got all the shots I needed within 10 mins. That sums up perfectly what it is really bad at. How will it perform underwater? Well of course that's the really big question. From my experience topside I'd say macro shot on a tripod, or ultra wide (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) angle shots would be amazing. I doubt it would be practical for anything else though.

 

Simon, I've shot a bit with the 5D2, 7D and 1D4 as well and maybe it was the lens but the CMOS jello wasn't so bad even handheld, especially on the 1D4. It's definitely there and if you have really abrupt movement, it's ugly. But I'd like to clarify what your complaints are? Did you have difficulty focusing the camera shooting the sharks? Was there too much motion causing CMOS jello? I'm interested in what lens you were using too.

[SimonSpear 65]

Indo was AMAZING Johnny, especially Lembeh. They had to drag me away kicking and screaming and now I know why everyone loves it so much! Filming Flamboyant's hatching and then hunting within seconds of being born when they are not much bigger than a grain of rice was definitely the highlight, but there were SO many amazing moments that it's hard to pick any others out from the crowd.

 

Drew. Ok here goes. Don't cross examine me and pick me apart with techno babble though please!

 

I've used a combination of lenses. Canon EF-S 10-22mm, Canon EF-S 15-85mm (new lens) & Canon EF 100mm Macro are the main ones. I've seen significant Jello on all of those lenses and I've not been happy with anything I've shot hand held. In my opinion for hand held work it has been unusable. Now if I'd had some of the viewfinder attachments and other gadgets I may have been able to get something usable, but as it is out of the box I just couldn't do it.

 

Talking specifically regarding the example I gave above of the juvenile Blacktips I mainly tried using the 15-85mm. Due to the form factor of the camera I found it impossible to follow focus or to zoom in or out and manage to film at the same time. Again with add on gadgets this may be possible, but I'd guess you'd need a hell of a lot of practise before you could do it. That was my main gripe in that particular example. The establishing shots I got from a tripod on the beach were awesome, but when it came to picking the camera up and actually using it like a camcorder in my experience I found it lacking in this example and many others.

 

Hey I love the 7D. For what it is good at it is well worth the money. Luckily Zoe bought it for still photos and I get to use it too for video as a bonus so it wasn't a buying decision that I needed to make. However I think lots of people will be deceived into thinking that it can be used like a camcorder - which in my opinion it cant. It's great at what it is good at, but it just doesn't have the flexibility that a similar priced camcorder would have.

 

Hope this helps to see where I'm coming from.

 

Cheers, Simon

[Mike L 0]

Simon,

 

Ive spent time underwater with the 5d2, and have played quite a bit with my 7d above water. I agree quite a bit with what you are saying. As a dedicated video camera, this is not quite the way to go. As a still camera to shoot video on occasion, it works great.

 

Ive worked on a few productions recently where they are using the 5d2 and 7d as cameras for interviews, and they work great, For action cameras, they are much more difficult to shoot with When I initially tested the 5d2 in Mexico chasing whale sharks, it was VERY difficult to get a nice steady image bouncing around on the surface. Shooting the HF S10, 5d2, EX1 and Red on that trip, I really had the opportunity to compare them side by side for ease of use, etc.

 

Berkely White shot a great 5d2 video that is across the net, but it was shot on a scooter which is a MUCH more stable platform over a diver bobbing around and hand holding the rig. I think ergonomics are the biggest problem that need to be overcome.

 

I absolutely love my 7D and cannot wait to get my Nauticam housing...but I doubt its going to be the camera I pick up to shoot for productions.

[Guamrider 0]

I have been looking at the 7D as a replacement for my 450D, which I use for still overlays while traveling for a video production. Having a 2nd topside camera with both stills and video capability to couple with my wider lenses, telephotos, etc. certainly peaked my interest.

 

But.......after reading everyone's replies it looks like unless I have a good tripod for the 7D --AND-- use it only for interviews, no panning, long shots, etc., I'm better off sticking with my hv30/Raynox wide angle lens for field use. I've got no complaints with the 450D images but thought upgrading to the 7D would give me more usable (key word) options.

 

Considering the cost of the 7D, is this a fair assumption?

[Newmediasoup2 0]

I was reading in the comment section of a youtube video, that the 7D will out perform the 5d mark II in shooting video. Is this true?

 

Does the 7d out perform the 5dII in any other areas?

 

Berkley White, owner of Backscatter Underwater Video & Photo in Monterey, CA just published this article on the Canon 7D, with comparisons to the Canon 5D Mark II. You can read the article here: Backscatter Canon 7D Article

 

Jen

[shaggybull 0]

Hello I just scanned through this post, and wanted to just say that the Canon 5D Mark ll is 21.1 Megapixel Full-Frame Sensor, and the 7D is a 18.0 Megapixel Cropped Sensor. If you really want a full frame camera where you mm lens is true to what it say on your lens it will be and the Canon 5D Mark ll. This camera is amazing and shoots great both video and still! You get the 1Ds Mark lll Sensor in you 5D Mark ll what else could ya ask for right!? Not really to what the person was asking about "what video is better" but I believe is a very big part of the camera being full frame or not

 

Thanks

[ronscuba 4]

I've read about some people who have and use both a 5d and 7d. They like the 5d for the extra wide angle coverage and the 7d for the extra reach.

[gbrandon 0]

Hello I just scanned through this post, and wanted to just say that the Canon 5D Mark ll is 21.1 Megapixel Full-Frame Sensor, and the 7D is a 18.0 Megapixel Cropped Sensor. If you really want a full frame camera where you mm lens is true to what it say on your lens it will be and the Canon 5D Mark ll. This camera is amazing and shoots great both video and still! You get the 1Ds Mark lll Sensor in you 5D Mark ll what else could ya ask for right!? Not really to what the person was asking about "what video is better" but I believe is a very big part of the camera being full frame or not

 

Thanks

 

Just to clarify your post, megapixel's and sensor size have nothing to do with each other. Nikon's D3S is a full frame sensor with 12 megapixels. Canons 7D is a 1.6 crop sensor and the 5dII is a FF sensor. The simple thing to remember is that bigger sensor=more light in, = better low light performance. Yes, the 5d2 is a great camera for underwater and topside, unfortunately, its crippled with a autofocus system and a burst mode thats nothing short of the dinosaur age.

 

I own both the 7D and the 5D2 and can tell you that for those of you saying the 7d has the "jello" effect so bad, my guess is your shooting in 24p. Try 30p at 1080p and if it still is there, drop to 720p. Another problem may be you have IS turned ON. When panning, make sure IS is off! Also be aware of your shutter speed!

24p was never meant to be shot by "panning" the camera like people do with consumer video cameras. Go watch any movie that was shot on film (24p) and tell me how often you see panning. Not very often, and when you do its slow and not for very long.

I think people think since film looks so good, they set their camera to 24p and think that will be better than 30p. not true at all.....

 

For underwater use, I would take the 5dII everytime over the 7d as well as the 1dMark IV.

 

The 1dmarkIV is about as useful as tits on a boar. Its a 1.3 crop sensor camera, so basically it does nothing great, but everything ok. Any serious shooter would tell you that for wide angle shots and portraits, FF is the way to go, while telephoto stuff (wildlife, etc) is best with a cropped sensor like the 7d's 1.6 crop.

So why canon ever came out with the 1dmarkIV with its 1.3 crop sensor is beyond me (as well as alot of other people). The way canon is headed lately is not a good direction. They seem to still be on the megapixel race while Nikon continues to increase market share by making stuff that is actually useful.

 

For a even better laugh about canon (and yes, all I shoot is canon, so im not some hidden nikon fanboy) go check out the website http://fakechuckwestfall.wordpress.com/

 

its a hoot, (at least in my opinion)

Edited February 2, 2010 by gbrandon

[Paul Kay 65]

The Welsh TV program I was working on all last summer was screened last week. A 1 hour program (less titles and adverts) of which about about 3/4 was shot underwater - ALL on the 5D2. I cannot compare the 5D2 to the 7D but what I can say is that with the 15mm fisheye lens the camera did an extremely good job. In fact comments received from viewers ('general public') have been very positive in as much as the program gave them a real overview and this went down very well with people who had no idea about what the Welsh undersea looked like. However, whilst the system worked well with the fisheye, I would echo the comments that generally it is not a simple set-up and does require careful use. Using the pre-focus and shoot was ok on a fisheye (even shooting moving subjects or chasing after our presenter) but very difficult on anything else (I tried). I didn't really come across any severe technical deficiencies (minor banding in a 360 twirl as we shot into the sun - fortunately a strong enough sequence to accept it) however one thing that I did notice was that if the program was recorded, then the extra compression in recording is very noticeable. I'd recommend the 5D2/15mm combination to anyone shooting 'overview' material, but not so sure how I'd feel using other lenses.

[DrMark 0]

I've used a combination of lenses. Canon EF-S 10-22mm, Canon EF-S 15-85mm (new lens) & Canon EF 100mm Macro are the main ones. I've seen significant Jello on all of those lenses and I've not been happy with anything I've shot hand held.

Cheers, Simon

 

Can somebody please describe what is meant by "Jello" with this camera?

 

Thanks,

 

--Mark

[wagsy 0]

Jello is the skewing effect of the video image when paining the camera left and right quickly.

Worse if you are zoomed in on a subject, but if you move and stay with the subject you are fine or with a wide angle and pan slowly.

 

The difference in time from the top of the image being scanned on the sensor to the bottom is not instant so there is a nano delay in information being processed.... so you get a skewed looking image.

You don't get this with CCD cameras, just one of the limitations of CMOS cameras.

 

Yes everyone is stuck in the 24p Hollywood world...in the real world its a stupid speed.

 

Got some examples on my computer here but have gone over my bandwidth so cannot load up.

Google it.... lots of example out there.

 

I plan to shoot a house with a 7D, moving through it on a steady cam in the next couple days, be interested to see how it comes out.

[DrMark 0]

Jello is the skewing effect of the video image when paining the camera left and right quickly.

Worse if you are zoomed in on a subject, but if you move and stay with the subject you are fine or with a wide angle and pan slowly.

 

The difference in time from the top of the image being scanned on the sensor to the bottom is not instant so there is a nano delay in information being processed.... so you get a skewed looking image.

You don't get this with CCD cameras, just one of the limitations of CMOS cameras.

 

Yes everyone is stuck in the 24p Hollywood world...in the real world its a stupid speed.

 

Got some examples on my computer here but have gone over my bandwidth so cannot load up.

Google it.... lots of example out there.

 

I plan to shoot a house with a 7D, moving through it on a steady cam in the next couple days, be interested to see how it comes out.

 

Thanks for the explanation Wagsy. The original poster made this sound like a problem with the 7D, but you suggest that he is just talking about CMOS rolling shutter (I've never heard it described as "Jello" before), right? If so, then the effect should be no different from what I see with my Sony A1U, right?

 

I'm really looking forward to your report.

 

--Mark

[betti154 5]

I can't comment on the 5Dmk2, though my first efforts with the 7D on a deep wreck can be see at:

 

http://damiensiviero.com/Video.aspx

 

The video is a short snippet from a dive on the SS Birchgrove Park, which is in about 50m of northern Sydney. I was shooting with a Tokina 10-17mm, Fisheye HDGX20 Fix light, AWB, ISO800 at f/4.5, shutter at 1/30th and 24fps.