Mike L 0 Posted January 4, 2010 We received the new Fix S90 housings finally. What a compact beauty!!! Pics of the set ups coming this week. Ill hopefully get out to dive with it this weekend! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThatsDeep 0 Posted January 7, 2010 I just bought mine today. It's very very sexy! I dare say it's about the same size as a G11 without housing! I also bought my first strobe, an Inon Z-240. I will be taking the setup to the wrecks in Subic on Saturday. I'm very excited! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
james 0 Posted January 7, 2010 I'd like to see some pix and hear more about the housing. What are the advantages over the $175 Canon housing? Cheers James Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CompuDude 0 Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) I'd like to see some pix and hear more about the housing. What are the advantages over the $175 Canon housing? Cheers James You can attach wet lenses, both macro and wide angle. You can use both the front command dial AND the back dial. (Canon you can only do the front dial) Smaller size (much) Deeper depth rating (40m vs 60m) Cold shoe on top for attaching focus light, etc. Google translation of Japanese product page here Edited January 7, 2010 by CompuDude Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThatsDeep 0 Posted January 7, 2010 I'd like to see some pix and hear more about the housing. What are the advantages over the $175 Canon housing? Cheers James What CompuDude said. Also, it simply oozes quality; the look, build and the fact that literally every single function is available makes you eager to use it. In fact, the rear control dial is even *better* with the housing than without! It's far too easy to accidentally turn on the camera itself, but the housing adds adequate resistance to make it more useful. The shutter button is very pleasant and responsive. I haven't tried the Canon housing, but on the Ikelite, the shutter lever was just irritating to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crawdad 0 Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) It is a very precise housing, just like the camera. The controls are all smooth and best of all the front and rear control rings allow complete access to both shutter speed and f stop at all times in manual setting with just a turn of either knob. No button pushing, menus, swapping functions etc. The housing controls are almost transparent to their function and the shutter is superb. This housing is as small at a Nikonos IV, fits the hand well, balances well, will be an excellent rig especially combined with a mini tray and S2000 strobes. A range of accessories are promised and some are already trickling into the market. This is THE camera in this sub SLR class. Comparison to A570/DC-12 rig: Compared to the toy like Canon housings with their dinky buttons and horrid shutter release, the FIX90 housing oozes confidence and quality. Edited January 8, 2010 by crawdad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crawdad 0 Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) Also review this link: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/tra...4r6vJUhxwkVYhXg and: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...90%2Findex.html Edited January 8, 2010 by crawdad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leepix 1 Posted January 11, 2010 Does the S90 provide TTL when in Manual mode? I understand the the G11 does not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crawdad 0 Posted January 11, 2010 Does the S90 provide TTL when in Manual mode? I understand the the G11 does not. The S90 does not have a hot shoe. Manual mode assumes a manual controlled flash. Most people set the internal strobe to 1/3 low power for triggering their external strobe. The Inon D2000/Z240 strobes are fully capable of controlling their own exposure when set to External Auto mode (they have a built in exposure system) and match f stop or set them to manual mode and dial in the power setting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeO 5 Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) The S90 does not have a hot shoe. Manual mode assumes a manual controlled flash. Most people set the internal strobe to 1/3 low power for triggering their external strobe. The Inon D2000/Z240 strobes are fully capable of controlling their own exposure when set to External Auto mode (they have a built in exposure system) and match f stop or set them to manual mode and dial in the power setting. Manual EXPOSURE mode does not automatically mean manual FLASH control. I set my 40D on M mode and it still does TTL flash control quite nicely, as do many other cameras, be they DSLR or P&S. What Lee is getting at is that if you have a TTL capable slave strobe (like the INONs or the S&S YS-110a), it can mimic the internal strobe's signal, letting the camera control flash exposure via TTL; that is my standard macro shooting style with my 40D and two Z240s. The G-11 allows ONLY manual flash control in manual exposure mode, which is a bit odd. The question here is whether the S90 does the same. This has nothing to do with a hotshoe . . . My only concerns with the S90 after reading the reviews have to do with flash recycle time and overexposed highlights. Need to investigate those further. Mike Edited January 12, 2010 by MikeO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dhaas 27 Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) As one who's actually SHOT my Canon S90 quite a bit since early December I can tell you it DOES NOT have TTL flash in Manual mode. Just like the G11. Canon ASSUMES if you want to shoot MANUAL then you will MANUALLY adjust everything. this is present on most of Canons' P&S models that have P, Av, Tv and M modes. Canon's dSLR cameras DO allow TTL even in MANUAL MODE when a TTL capable flash is either hard wired or the pop up flash is being "mimiced" ala' a fiber optic or slave sensor (like Ikelite's AF35 sensor). Depends on the strobe, too and I am not 100% versed in INON or Sea and Sea TTL protocols. That said in Tv or Av mode if you have a TTL or "quasi'-TTL" system the S90 does a great job of starting and quenching flash to external strobes. The Canon S90 is a great little camera IMHO..... Samples below - December in Cozumel Ikelite Canon S90 Housing, Dual AF35 Strobes, W20 for wide shots. dhaas Edited January 12, 2010 by dhaas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeO 5 Posted January 12, 2010 Thanks Dave. Nice to hear from someone who has actual experience. I have to say that Canon has made an odd choice in disabling TTL for manual mode. Guess they think it is more for people who like to play with their cameras -- I like Oly's old solution of letting you choose whether to use manual or TTL flash. Tv and Av are imperfect solutions but workable, though many cameras default to a slow shutter speed with the flash enabled in Av mode and almost always end up giving you a wide open aperture underwater in Tv mode. Can one choose Av mode, then use exposure compensation to adjust shutter speed to vary background exposure? What does that do to flash exposure? I like the S90 and am thinking of getting one for my pocket camera. If I like it, I might pick up a FIX housing for it -- that makes it a pocket camera above and under water. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dhaas 27 Posted January 12, 2010 Mike, Good to hear from you! As to your Canon user observations here's a bit of my insights.... I think no TTL in M mode might have to do with type of shutter in P&S (????) Not sure though..... In Av mode I cheated dialing in almost - 1 2/3 EV for bluer darker backgrounds. With TTL flash enabled to trip my AF35 Auto sensors the shutter speed "bottomed out" at 1/60. Mostly fine but I have some slow moving fish I would have liked it to be a bit faster. I will try Tv more next time as with these little sensor cameras there is plenty of techno babble out there about shooting above f5.6 or so basically looks worse due to refraction or something else. (?????) All I know is even at f2.8 - 5.6 MAX the DOF (depth of field) from small sensor cameras is amazing. Will try some pool tests hopefully this weekend! Later, dhaas Canon S90 Window Shot Leaving Cozumel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crawdad 0 Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) Manual EXPOSURE mode does not automatically mean manual FLASH control. Mike It does on the S90. BTW, you can download the manual from the Canon site if you want, under the tab for support I think it is. Edited January 12, 2010 by crawdad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeO 5 Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) It does on the S90. Yep, got that from Dave's response. Guess I didn't understand yours. Sorry about that. Mike Edited January 12, 2010 by MikeO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leepix 1 Posted January 12, 2010 Thanks Mike for eeplaining what I did not say well ~ Mike knows I am looking hard at G11 or maybe an S90 to replace my old C5050 in Ikelite hsg. He has just about convinced me to sell my DS-51 & 125 and go over to the Inons. I find it fascinating how Dave got really good shots with the AF35 strobes? But being an old (Ikelite) dog, I have to ask this: Could I use an Ike Manual Controller to get good flash control with either Canon? and along with that would I be waiting for the internal flash to recycle even it reduced (i.e. burning my batteries and time). I am looking for more CFWA than macro and therefore more concerned about shooting aperature than slow speeds. Tangental issue, I don't see a lot of diference between the INON -Z-240 and D2000 other than the former allowing electrical connection. Am I wrong, is there a preference? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeO 5 Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) Lee, I was never very successful with Ikelite manual controllers and pre-flash cameras but that was a while back so it may work well now -- it may be an option if you want to try it with your existing Ikes to see if you can control them manually that way. Dave may be able to verify with existing stock . If you stick with Av or Tv on the camera, the INONs should be able to mimic the TTL and offer manual when you want it. I think they're slicker in implementation than the Auto35, but to each his own. The Z-240 has a higher guide number (24) than the D2000 (20). So, it is a bit more powerful as well as having the electrical port. The S2000 specs compare favorably to the D2000 so you might check that as well. It is certainly is smaller and less expensive -- it doesn't have all the modes of the D2000 but that may not matter to you (it does S-TTL and manual and that may be all anyone needs). Also, it has a single horizontal flash tube so the coverage w/o a diffuser is a bit wider than tall. Mike Edited January 12, 2010 by MikeO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dhaas 27 Posted January 12, 2010 Leepix, You CAN use your EV controller with either the DS51 or 125 and the Canon S90. BUT you will be setting flash power all manually in the 10 steps of the Ikelite EV controller. You would need to set the EV controller switch inside to "No pre-flash" if you will be shooting in "M" manual mode and tripping it with the S90 flash. Setting the camera's MANUAL flash output in that mode would be fine at 1/3 power since all you want to do is trip your EV controller and thus the DS flash unit. If you use a Canon G11 in the Ikelite housing you would NOT want to plug in the hot shoe. Same deal, "M" mode and set flash output to 1/3. The Ikelite housing comes with a deflector that pops on the port should you choose to go this away... The Canon G11 Ikelite housing with TTL circuitry linked to a #4301.51 TTL synch cord and use EITHER the DS51 or DS125 and have TTL control just like you would have with a Canon hot shoe surface flash. Plus you can control the flash manually through the Canon G11 menus if you desire (which I have no idea why anyone would want to since TTL is great for those who learn to use it Mike, I think you went through very early phases of the old GRAY Auto sensors and then EV controllers (yes???) Things have radically changed even in the lowly P&S market and flash control since then...... The Ikelite AF35 Auto Sensor is so good I wish Ikelite made it with a detachable cord touse with DS51 and DS125 / 160/ 161. Also, this latest development of lower mega-pixel Canon G11 and S90 better at ISO 400 and even 800 means MORE flash power isn't necessarily required. Plus the fact I mentioned previously about anything smaller than maybe f6.3 f-stop on little sensors gaining you nothing and maybe hurting detail in your pics. Somehow when I post here using what some think is a less capable solution (Ikelite AF35 being one) I sense people think I'm privvy to "special" settings or whatever. Nothing could be further from the truth..... I am a lazy UW photographer looking for the fastest, simplest ways to control light from my flash units. I DO shoot a lot to learn how any new camera will react. Plus I know how TTL works and I use that technology to make my images a little lighter, darker, etc. Using 2 Ikelite AF35 to shoot the pics posted gave me more than enough lighting power and capability in a very small light package. (Photo of me below with the system and the shot I took in photo #3)) Happy to answer any questions for anyone using these two new wonders. The Canon G11 and S90! dhaas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leepix 1 Posted January 13, 2010 Mike and Dave thanks for the explainations. Dave I may have misled you, I have been using the Ike TTL hsg for my old C5050 for some time. I use the Ike sync cord with either DS-125 or 51 and occasionally have tried both with the Ike dual sync cord. Based on what you are saying about the Ike TTL for Canon G11, I should adopt the KISS principle (and cheapest solution BTW)? Maybe I am just over-thinking this decision? The only other issue I have with Ike is how to do CFWA. The Ike hsg only gets me to 28mm EFL with a WD-4 port, while the FIX hsgs have other solutions either super wide port (G11) or 67mm adaptor ring for my Inon 100 WAL. Cost is an independent variable ~~~ LOL Tks again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crawdad 0 Posted January 13, 2010 (edited) On the S90 like many Canon P&S cameras, if you select Manual mode or in the menu go to flash and select "manual flash" then in Av/Tv modes there is no preflash. In Manual there is never a preflash and the "manual flash" setting is over ridden in Auto or Program modes. In "manual flash" you can then go to Func. Set button and select 1/3, 2/3 or 3/3 power settings, all with no preflash. I believe that is how it works for what it is worth. I wish Ikelite would offer an optional upgrade, optical cable connection to the flash controller for the AF35 set. It would be a nice upgrade and the AF35 set is so compact, has those nice arms and built in tray set, it would be, if I may, more awesomer. Edited January 13, 2010 by crawdad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dhaas 27 Posted January 13, 2010 leepix, YES, hard wired TTL cord with Ikelite circuitry equipped housing and DS strobe is the way to go IMHO with Canon G11. As crawdad says you CAN go into MENU in Av or Tv mode and switch your flash control to MANUAL which gives you the same 1/3 , 2/3 or FULL power adjustments under FUNC choices like in M shooting mode. I shoot TTL flash with sensors that duplicate it so I would never do that. But you can.... As far as adding an optical cord to sensors? I wish for a "light pipe" flexible white "tube" I can slip on the sensor front and direct right to the top of my housing where the flash bounces out of. I sure don't want a cord getting in the way of me being able to constantly adjust my strobe angles. Currently the reflected flash works fine as long as I'm away from other photogs who might set off my flashes. Before a dive I tell them to motion for me to turn mine off when they want to take a pic of me. Not a big problem at least for me as I'm usually shooting alone anyway With a bit of luck you can take pics of another photographer shooting as below. YMMV dhaas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeO 5 Posted January 13, 2010 As far as adding an optical cord to sensors? I wish for a "light pipe" flexible white "tube" I can slip on the sensor front and direct right to the top of my housing where the flash bounces out of. I sure don't want a cord getting in the way of me being able to constantly adjust my strobe angles. Currently the reflected flash works fine as long as I'm away from other photogs who might set off my flashes. Before a dive I tell them to motion for me to turn mine off when they want to take a pic of me. Not a big problem at least for me as I'm usually shooting alone anyway Dave, I did this way back when, when I was having trouble with those old gray slave sensors. I used the rubber caps that came with them (and others I got as free samples from niagara plastics) as the pieces that mounted on the slave sensors, poked a small hole in them and ran a small fiber optic line to the front of the "strobe blocker" on the housing to the rubber caps on the slave sensors. Cheap, easy, and very effective. Just make sure you polish the ends of the fiber after you cut it! Can provide more details later if you're interested. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dhaas 27 Posted January 13, 2010 Mike, I DO remember your set up for isolating the flash. Although I thought you just had white Shrink tubing and didn't realize you also ran a fiber optic cord down the middle. My hillbilly engineering idea would be to have something super simple to slip over the sensor front. Ikelite's AF35 is kind of a rectangle so maybe I'd have to secure it with a tie wrap or something. Then simply "point it" at where my flash area on the housing is bouncing out. Running cords, tubes, etc. to me is like having lanyards in my way when I'm trying to set up or take a shot.....Ugghhhhhhh......More hassle than they are worth. I'm just sayin' Will have to see what I have I my shop to accomplish my "Light Tube" idea My Canon S90 is a fun picture making machine! dhaas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leepix 1 Posted January 15, 2010 "My Canon S90 is a fun picture making machine!" I started my search looking for a small rig with a largish sensor that could shoot very w/a. It seems to me that the S90 in a FIX hsg is that? Three questions remain. Can the FIX hsg take my old Inon WAL 100 -how does one tell a Type One which does not work from a Type Two? Should I stick with my Ike DS strobes and add a Manual Controller (~$150)? OR should I stay with the smaller theme and get the better Inon D2000 (~$550)? I am close to the end -yeah! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crawdad 0 Posted January 15, 2010 (edited) When I said an optional upgrade to the AF35, I meant a cap and optical cables to the existing AF sensor, not to the strobe head. Ikelite could either make the sensor with optical cable plugs and a switch, cable or open, or perhaps a cap with plugs. The Type II and Type one should be written on the lens body, it is on mine. The FIX web page indicates they are making several adapters included a 67mm threaded adapter for the 100WAL Type II. Yes, the 100WAL Type II will work with the FIX housing and S90 if there is a suitable adapter. S90 in FIX at 28mm: S90 in FIX at 35mm: S90 in FIX with Inon 100WAL (with dome), camera at 35mm: S90 in FIX with Inon 165AD FE, camera at 35mm: Shooting distance to fish, 18 inches, auxiliary lenses positioned 1/32 inch forward of FIX port. Edited January 15, 2010 by crawdad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
