Sea Shepherds Ady Gil collides with Japanese whaler

[ColinMunro 0]

It creates awareness... many of my friends (worldwide) are now supporters and I bet many many more friends of supporters are and will be...

 

This is NOT a 'race' issue as some people seem to think/imply its a whaling issue and if grown adults want to do whatever it takes then thats totally up to them. Generals sit back and watch while soldiers fight and thats the way its been in most countries for many years, apart from conscription its mainly a personal choice to join any fight...

 

Go Sea Shepherd !!!

 

Dive safe

 

Dean( ramming speed )B

 

 

Creates awares...hmmmm. Of what? That I'm not sure of.

 

That SS have an awful lot of money and appear happy to endanger peoples lives in an extremely hostile environment. Then certainly yes. That SS are very media savvy and know how to generate attention and create spectacles that bring in the dollars - most certainly.

 

Did this increase my understanding, or that of anyone else's for that matter, of the facts and the issues behind whaling? I'm afraid I see no evidence for that at all, anymore than spray-painting obscene graffiti on the walls investment banks would increase my understanding of the gloabal financial crisis.

 

Are the stocks of the whales hunted by the Japanese and Norwegians threatened? As far as I can see the evidence does not indicate so, equally I see no indication at all that SS is trying to put across any scientific evidence. This is a great shame considering they have such global media attention. It could lead one to suspect they are not really interested in the scientific evidence.

 

The biggest crisis facing the World's oceans are a) overfishing for cod species, tuna, and the like, and b) bottom trawling and dredging are destroying vast area of reef and other seabed habitats. This is both threatening many species with extinction and dramatically changing benthic and pelagic ecosystems at a fundamental level - possibly irriversibly in some cases. This will have, and is having, profound implications for the health and survival of a great many species and many human communities around the World. By comparison, the 'scientific' killing of a few hundred whales is an extremely trivial issue, whilst it may be emotionally upsetting to many people. Let us not forget that there is no habitat destruction with whaling and no unwanted by-catch whatsoever. Please be clear, I am not saying whaling is a good thing; I am pointing out that, in terms of the health of the environment, the survival of species and the protection of habitats, it is a complete distraction.

 

There is one other major difference being whaling and most other destructive commercial fishing. Whaling is conducted by 'others' a few Japanese and a few Norwegians mostly. Whereas unsustainable commercial fishing is largely due to all of us - Europe, the US, Russia, Asia. For example, Europe has fished out much of its own stocks to we are now plundering much of West Africa - and destroying the livlihoods of millions of artisanal fishermen and their families. I suspect Discovery would find such a message not quite so palatable to its audiences.

 

Having read some of Paul Watson's views I don't see evidence of a notable understanding of science, or conservation for that matter, in his thinking. I note that the SS website has considerably more information on PWs biography, the awards he has won, and PW 'Master and Commander' than it has on the reasons for protecting whales. I am afraid I find it depressing that someone so clearly self-obsessed should be able to distract the media from real environmental problems.

 

Colin

[scorpio_fish 5]

Creates awares...hmmmm. Of what? That I'm not sure of.

 

...Are the stocks of the whales hunted by the Japanese and Norwegians threatened? As far as I can see the evidence does not indicate so, equally I see no indication at all that SS is trying to put across any scientific evidence. This is a great shame considering they have such global media attention. It could lead one to suspect they are not really interested in the scientific evidence.

 

The biggest crisis facing the World's oceans are a) overfishing for cod species, tuna, and the like, and b) bottom trawling and dredging are destroying vast area of reef and other seabed habitats. This is both threatening many species with extinction and dramatically changing benthic and pelagic ecosystems at a fundamental level - possibly irriversibly in some cases. This will have, and is having, profound implications for the health and survival of a great many species and many human communities around the World. By comparison, the 'scientific' killing of a few hundred whales is an extremely trivial issue, whilst it may be emotionally upsetting to many people.

 

...

 

Having read some of Paul Watson's views I don't see evidence of a notable understanding of science, or conservation for that matter, in his thinking. I note that the SS website has considerably more information on PWs biography, the awards he has won, and PW 'Master and Commander' than it has on the reasons for protecting whales. I am afraid I find it depressing that someone so clearly self-obsessed should be able to distract the media from real environmental problems.

 

Colin

 

Let's not let science get in the way of a good TV show or great "Cause".

[Drew 0]

Or facts or logic... that'd be distracting!

 

Let's get to the point. It is an emotional string pizzicato that is in effect.

[ErolE 3]

Creates awares...hmmmm. Of what? That I'm not sure of.

 

Are the stocks of the whales hunted by the Japanese and Norwegians threatened? As far as I can see the evidence does not indicate so, equally I see no indication at all that SS is trying to put across any scientific evidence. This is a great shame considering they have such global media attention. It could lead one to suspect they are not really interested in the scientific evidence.

 

 

 

Colin

 

It s a touch more complex than that.

 

The global population of Minke whales, which are the predominately hunted whale, are made up of discreet breeding stocks. The individuals of all the stock travel to the Antarctic during the summer months, where they inter mingle. Whilst some of these stocks could sustain a fishery other can t. Given that there is no way to identify the breeding stock of an individual prior to hunting, building up a sustainable Antarctic fishery is actually very hard.

 

In addition to this there is considerable concern that Japanese hunting is completely indiscriminate, with genetic studies of whale meat sold in Asian markets showing they originate from a wide variety of species including near extinct species such as blue whales (eg Baker et al Proc Biol Sci. 2000 June 22; 267(1449): 1191–1199.)

 

This completely unregulated aspect of the whale hunting both in breeding stock and whale species shows that the hunt that the Japanese drive, is another detrimental impact on very vulnerable species.

 

Whilst over fishing is rightly identified as a more significant impact on overall marine biodiversity, the impacts of whale hunting can t be dismissed out of hand.

 

On another note, from the camera angle of that shows both the Ady Gil and the Shoona Maru, it is clear that the Japanese vessel veered to starboard with the intention of ramming. Whilst you can question the wisdom of the decision making abroad the Ady Gil this does not detract from the fact that she was intentionally rammed and sunk.

[ColinMunro 0]

It s a touch more complex than that.

 

The global population of Minke whales, which are the predominately hunted whale, are made up of discreet breeding stocks. The individuals of all the stock travel to the Antarctic during the summer months, where they inter mingle. Whilst some of these stocks could sustain a fishery other can t. Given that there is no way to identify the breeding stock of an individual prior to hunting, building up a sustainable Antarctic fishery is actually very hard.

 

In addition to this there is considerable concern that Japanese hunting is completely indiscriminate, with genetic studies of whale meat sold in Asian markets showing they originate from a wide variety of species including near extinct species such as blue whales (eg Baker et al Proc Biol Sci. 2000 June 22; 267(1449): 1191–1199.)

 

This completely unregulated aspect of the whale hunting both in breeding stock and whale species shows that the hunt that the Japanese drive, is another detrimental impact on very vulnerable species.

 

Whilst over fishing is rightly identified as a more significant impact on overall marine biodiversity, the impacts of whale hunting can t be dismissed out of hand.

 

On another note, from the camera angle of that shows both the Ady Gil and the Shoona Maru, it is clear that the Japanese vessel veered to starboard with the intention of ramming. Whilst you can question the wisdom of the decision making abroad the Ady Gil this does not detract from the fact that she was intentionally rammed and sunk.

 

 

I agree, it is more complex. My argument is that SS show no interest in the complexities and demonstrate no understanding of the issues either. My understanding is that the World population of Minke whales has exanded very rapidly, and continues to do so and that 'scientific whaling' does not appear to have reversed, or measurably slowed this population increase.

 

Your argument about lack of regulation (and enforcement) is a very good one. It is exactly the same problem faced by commercial fishing - albeit on a very much grander scale (and practised by the same nations demonising whaling). Surely that is an argument for better monitoring and regulation, and moratoriums where the evidence supports it - not for staging stunts on the high seas.

 

Your point about certain minke stocks being unable to withstand fishing is interesting. Can you point me in the direction of any data supporting this.

 

Cheers

[Drew 0]

It's great that you bring up Scott Baker's study because it brings up the issue of the Japanese being singled out again as the only whaling nation. If I remember correctly, Scott's DNA survey was done in the 90s and the blue whale tissue sample was from Iceland but sold to Japan which is the largest market for whale products since Iceland and Norway kill more than they need because it's a subsidized industry. Basically the Icelanders broke the moratorium , NOT the Japanese (not that they are innocent I'm sure) but they also buy meat from the Koreans and whale that get caught in nets and die are often sold for meat. The Norwegians outright IGNORED the moratorium since 1993 and hunt the Atlantic minke stock... culling up to 1286 (2010 quota) out of the 100k population estimated by IWC. How many people know this vs that the crew on the Steve Irwin are vegan? I'll leave it to others to ponder why not.

On the boat crash, the other possible scenario is that the Japanese skipper was veering starboard to cut across the stern of the Ady Gil. In racing, you turn to where the wreck was and not where its going to avoid collision. Not knowing the intentions of the Ady Gil which was suppose to cut across the bow of the SM II instead of dangerously cutting engines (or suffering an engine failure...we'll never publicly know the truth on that), the skipper's view which is also obscured by its own water canons and high viewpoint and over turned. If he was really wanting to crush the boat, he wouldn't have turned port side once the collision occurred. The AG was deploying foul lines before. I can't really blame the SMII skipper for taking defensive action. Unfortunately for that crew, those hoses are on from a main pump probably so it kept on shooting and the stern cannons hit the sinking boat. Would the cannons and nets be there if SS didn't throw things at the ships or would the Japanese need to use defensive measures if they didn't have to worry about prop fouling?

Both sides are escalating with more money and risks while the real issue is being cemented by Japanese nationalism. Tell me how effective that is?

If the effort is to bring awareness to the Japanese people, does anyone really think this will convince and ingratiate the Japanese public into pressuring the new government? It worked so well on the Norwegians.

[Guest echeng]

I'd say Paul Watson's efforts are working well. Millions of people more are debating this very issue, and whether they choose one side or the other, it's on their minds. It doesn't matter that a million people think you're an idiot if 200,000 join the cause.

 

Having spent months with Paul in person, I would like to go on record as saying that he does NOT want whaling to continue, and to suggest that is ridiculous. He's got a huge list of things he wants stopped, and this is just one of them.

 

By the way, here's the PDF of the paper that Drew linked to. It took more than 2 clicks to get, so I'll make it easy for you.

isa05_proceeding_70446.PDF

[scorpio_fish 5]

I'd say Paul Watson's efforts are working well. Millions of people more are debating this very issue, and whether they choose one side or the other, it's on their minds. It doesn't matter that a million people think you're an idiot if 200,000 join the cause.

 

I have now read the article. As suspected, there isn't widespread support for whaling amongst the Japanese public, mostly no opinion. Could it be that the actions of Paul Watson actually creates resistance to the natural death of the whale market in Japan? In other words, would those who have no opinion choose to support the industry out of patriotic/nationalistic beliefs?

 

The best way to end it is the 200,000 you get to join the cause are Japanese.

[james 0]

Eric,

 

Thanks for providing the composite video - that is really helpful.

 

I am not interested in debating the pros and cons of "direct action" but I AM very interested as a captain and offshore worker in the specifics of the vessel collision.

 

As someone who is keenly interested in protecting the lives of people at sea it makes me very angry to see something like this collision happen. People's lives are at VERY real risk (as Eric knows from being there), and putting people in a situation where they might go in the water (both the Japanese and SS) is wrong.

 

James

[ColinMunro 0]

I echo that. Very helpful Eric.

 

The paper does very eloquently summarize views expressed quite widely. Particularly pertinent are the points regarding key anti-whaling nations stating they oppose whaling irrespective of scietific stock assessment finding, for ethical reasons. This, in my opinion, reduces our approach to conservation to...this species is cute and very marketable, therefore vast amounts of money are to be spent on protecting it....whereas these species are ugly and not at all telegenic... they're vital to the ecosystem but who cares. I might find this 'whales are intelligent so they shouldn't be killed' argument more compelling if the same argument was advanced as vociferously in respect of intensive pig farming or battery chicken farming. Nor do I see the same argument - that they are too intelligent to kill - being advanced to prevent the culling of mink in the British countryside either - rightly many would argue. I have yet to see any real evidence that a minke whale is more intelligent that a pig, or a cow for that matter.

 

I'm afraid that, as far as I can see, Paul watson is not a conservationist as I understand the term. He is an animal rights campaigner for whales, throwing large amounts of money at campaigns to protect a few individuals in the same way as rich old ladies leave vast sums to stray cats or abandoned donkeys.

 

I guess if that is something you believe in then go ahead and donate. However the greatest effect of ones donations will be in preserving Sea Shepherd, not the environment. If the emotive 'we like whales' argument is removed then I doubt supporting SS would make the top 10,000 best uses of your money to save the planet. But of course that's just my view. ps - I really do like whales, and am very glad there are more around than there used to be.

 

Colin

[Drew 0]

I'd say Paul Watson's efforts are working well. Millions of people more are debating this very issue, and whether they choose one side or the other, it's on their minds. It doesn't matter that a million people think you're an idiot if 200,000 join the cause.

Yes Eric, but that's the issue. Are all the campaigns for recruiting, fundraising or trying to stop whaling? The evidence seems to prove they are mutually exclusive. These campaigns don't help the cause to stop whaling in Japan. In fact, it gives the Fisheries Agency of Japan and the political old guard ammunition to support this based on national pride. I fail to see any good coming out of the campaigns for the whales or the Japanese.

Now if these campaigns are thinly veiled fundraising, recruitment and recognition tools, then they work very well.

[DeanB 19]

Their campaign STOPS whales being killed ... Let other org's like Greenpeace continue their 'peaceful' protests and 'hearts & minds' offensives but while the SS crew or out there they are slowing the number of whales being killed... If we had to rely on talking, these sentient beings would be being slaughtered in greater numbers. If the SS crew stops one whale being killed then thats a bonus and worth the money in my humble...

 

As i said the 'heroes' on board the SS vessels are grown adults making up their own minds and are much braver than most of us here (including me) for getting out there and doing something about it ...

 

And if old spinsters want to send their money to SS or the cats protection league thats totally up to them its funding no matter how much you look down at it...

 

People can sit there, type and throw facts and figures and scientific theory about what's happening, thats their views and it looks like they know what their talking about... To them But to me the SS crews direct action is what most of us have been wanting to do for years but are to scared to be 'un PC' to do it .... Look at the Soldiers shooting poachers in Africa and India wheres the uproar about that, the poachers are human are they not and some with families to feed... The poachers know the law and they try their luck some are not so lucky...

 

I expect we've all got a priority list of 'what should come first' and 'where peoples funds should go' as someone said earlier whales are not the shepherd's only fight, just a big one of many ...

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

Edited January 8, 2010 by DeanB

[Bigeye Bubblefish 7]

I'd say Paul Watson's efforts are working well. Millions of people more are debating this very issue, and whether they choose one side or the other, it's on their minds. It doesn't matter that a million people think you're an idiot if 200,000 join the cause.

 

Having spent months with Paul in person, I would like to go on record as saying that he does NOT want whaling to continue, and to suggest that is ridiculous. He's got a huge list of things he wants stopped, and this is just one of them.

 

By the way, here's the PDF of the paper that Drew linked to. It took more than 2 clicks to get, so I'll make it easy for you.

 

I've been through the document.

REason n°1 why the Japanese keep whaling seem to be very simple. Sea food, pelagics and fishes in general is part of a huge business.

Their biggest fear in an effort to stop whaling, is to face an unsustainable situation where they could be limited by transnational organisation in their ability to fish or trade other species such as tuna.

 

Can you imagine a world where we would condamn Japan for trading Tuna?

This is not an option for them. For this reason, Whaling and enforcing a moratorium in the antartic sanctuary prevents them to be limited on other part of a HUGE business.

[Drew 0]

I've been through the document.

REason n°1 why the Japanese keep whaling seem to be very simple. Sea food, pelagics and fishes in general is part of a huge business.

Their biggest fear in an effort to stop whaling, is to face an unsustainable situation where they could be limited by transnational organisation in their ability to fish or trade other species such as tuna.

 

Can you imagine a world where we would condamn Japan for trading Tuna?

This is not an option for them. For this reason, Whaling and enforcing a moratorium in the antartic sanctuary prevents them to be limited on other part of a HUGE business.

 

That correlation is a bit of a stretch. Japan was ready to dump whaling in the 80s to maintain fishing rights in US waters. They feared sanctions. Since then, they lost out on the quotas anyways and the US government under Bush and Clinton backed off sanctions against the Japanese for whaling, because they realized the Japanese were not going to back down now that the fishing rights were no longer on the table. Hence you see a big grab for fishing rights elsewhere in the world.

Sund does remind us of a very important point. The IWC was conceived as a conservation and sustainability organization, not a preservation organization. There is no economic sense for Japan to continue whaling for 500 people.This is national pride stemmed from the 85 deal with the US. Norway, as a member of the EU, is unilaterally ignoring the moratorium and hunting on a smaller population of minkes. How is it no one is seiging Sandefjord, Norway for its planned 1286 quota this year? Is it because the Norwegians have the support of the EU? Even at the highest point of the protests against the Norwegians, where SS sank ships, there was not as much financial or popular support for SS tactics. Perhaps it is the sign of the times whereby satellite transmission of video clips has an almost immediate effect vs in the 90s where beta and VHS tape were still king. Or is it something else? Why is it the UK which always protests the Japanese whaling says almost nothing about their North Sea neighbor's hunting of minkes, which is often closer to the UK than Norway?

Furthermore, it is amazing how there is lack of focus on the Japanese trial of the Tokyo Two, Junichi Sato and Tori Suzuki, members of Greenpeace, who have been arrested for trying to expose to the Japanese the misuse of tax money in support of whaling. In typical Japanese manner, the trial is stacked against them and they face 10 years in prison for doing what they believe in... without risk of injury to anyone but themselves. That is truly fighting for the cause, not this hollywoodized heroics that does nothing but give the FAJ the public sympathy it needs to use tax payer money to support a dead industry. Yushin, the one whale restaurant that is owned by ICR closed in 2008 due to lack of business. If logic is to prevail in these matters, then the questions should be why the Japanese government insists on continuing a failed business with no real value?

[davelew 4]

the questions should be why the Japanese government insists on continuing a failed business with no real value?

 

People have been asking that question for 20 years, but mostly for reasons that have nothing to do with whaling or conservation.

[ColinMunro 0]

People have been asking that question for 20 years, but mostly for reasons that have nothing to do with whaling or conservation.

 

 

The most likely reasons - as clearly explained in the paper linked by Eric - are a mix of different value systems and national pride. Japan's approach to whale conservation is purely scientific - they have little time for the touchy-feely 'whales are special' approach. So if the stock assessment says whales can be exploited then, as far as they are concerned, that's the end of story. I have to say - whatever your views on whether some whales stocks are suficiently robust or not at the moment (and some of the findings appear to be far from cut and dried) - many of the NGOs lobbying on the IOC do rather shoot theirselves in the foot when they say fairly explicity ' Yes the scientific finding are important - but only if they support our case.. If they don't then scientific stock assessment doesn't matter 'cos whales are special.' You can't really cherry-pick the data you like and expect your interpretation of the data to be views as a fair and accurate representation.

 

The second point seems to be national pride - no country likes to be told to mend their ways by other countries purporting to hold the moral high ground. If it appears they are being bullied into it, they are likely to dig their heels in. So to respond to Dean's point - Sea Shepherd's campaign doesn't stop whales being killed, all the evidence indicates it has exactly the opposite effect. Whatever Mr Watson's motives, the end result of his campaign is to deepen Japanese resistance to allowing whaling to end for purely economic reasons and to prolong the campaign and fill the coffers of Sea Shepherd So if you are pro-whaling, best option is to donate to Sea Shepherd.

[DeanB 19]

The most likely reasons - as clearly explained in the paper linked by Eric - are a mix of different value systems and national pride. Japan's approach to whale conservation is purely scientific - they have little time for the touchy-feely 'whales are special' approach. So if the stock assessment says whales can be exploited then, as far as they are concerned, that's the end of story. I have to say - whatever your views on whether some whales stocks are suficiently robust or not at the moment (and some of the findings appear to be far from cut and dried) - many of the NGOs lobbying on the IOC do rather shoot theirselves in the foot when they say fairly explicity ' Yes the scientific finding are important - but only if they support our case.. If they don't then scientific stock assessment doesn't matter 'cos whales are special.' You can't really cherry-pick the data you like and expect your interpretation of the data to be views as a fair and accurate representation.

 

The second point seems to be national pride - no country likes to be told to mend their ways by other countries purporting to hold the moral high ground. If it appears they are being bullied into it, they are likely to dig their heels in. So to respond to Dean's point - Sea Shepherd's campaign doesn't stop whales being killed, all the evidence indicates it has exactly the opposite effect. Whatever Mr Watson's motives, the end result of his campaign is to deepen Japanese resistance to allowing whaling to end for purely economic reasons and to prolong the campaign and fill the coffers of Sea Shepherd So if you are pro-whaling, best option is to donate to Sea Shepherd.

 

Sorry i left the 'nah nah ne nah nah' school ground years ago, however if you insist, from what I've seen their presence is raising and re-igniting lots of awareness ... What evidence have you got that it causes a reverse affect to their cause apart from in Japan itself and maybe other whaling nations... Some Industries fade and die thats life, sad but true ... And whales ARE special, special to anyone with an ounce of humanity and to be honest science doesn't always get it right ... I didn't say it stops whales being killed, full stop, it stops a few being killed and thats a worthy cause in itself ...

 

And because some people actually DO believe Japans propaganda that they are there for 'research' speaks volumes ... As for nations not liking to be 'bullied' that obvious, still doesn't make what their doing right ...

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

[ColinMunro 0]

Sorry i left the 'nah nah ne nah nah' school ground years ago, however if you insist, from what I've seen their presence is raising and re-igniting lots of awareness ... What evidence have you got that it causes a reverse affect to their cause apart from in Japan itself and maybe other whaling nations...

 

 

Surely that's the point. What is the benefit of convincing nations that don't hunt whales and don't want to hunt whales that they shouldn't hunt whales?

 

Surely the point is to convince the whaling nations. If you agree it causes a reverse effect in Japan and maybe other whaling nations.....isn't that the opposite of what someone opposed to whaling would want a campaign to acheive?

[Guest echeng]

Here is a leaked video showing the final moments of the Ady Gil -- from the Ady Gil's perspective. She was idling.

 

[loftus 42]

That sure changes the perspective; thanks Eric. Why did this have to be leaked? Should really be the first video shown as it puts the others in context.

[Drew 0]

Sure does look like the SM2 skipper made a bee line for the AG. Dangerous games being played in deadly conditions. The escalation roadmap is pretty clear.

1. Greenpeace started with skiffs to block the whaling ships and video cameras to shame them so they would stop whaling when the cameras were around. An annoyance but their annual quota of 4xx(sorry I can't remember the exact number) stayed. Water hoses were used to deter skiffs. Also finds $150 million to build the Nisshin Maru, from a dying industry?

2. International pressure from NGO and political lobbies like HSUS in Washington, puts pressure on Tokyo which reacts by upping their catch limit to 8xx minkes in 2005

3. SS and Japanese whaling fleet clash with ship contact, use of butyric acid bottles and gel powders. Japanese get more powerful hoses.

4. Japanese upgrade defenses with flash bang grenades and armed men in riot gear (great PR idea!).

5. SS responds with faked hostage crisis and purported shooting (which was never proven either way).

6. Japanese upgrade to LRADs (ostensibly because flash bang grenades were a bad choice... DUH!) and nets to stop the butyric acid bottles and gel packs. Both sides still collide playing chicken in the most remote area of the world. Japanese hunt whale in front of cameras in defiance.

7. SS upgrades to 3 boats, green laser pointers to blind Japanese crew (brilliant! let's singe the whaler's retinas because they are so pacifist they won't react badly to being blinded!) and propelled object launchers to beat the nets.

8. SM2, seemingly drives straight at Ady Gil, sinks ship and puts lives at risk.

9. Next escalation?

 

Rhetoric aside, the escalation on both sides is fueling this conflict. SS's strategy to get the Japanese whalers to blink first may have worked. By continually frustrating the Japanese , using butyric acid, gel, ship to ship physical contact and now lasers, the SS MAY HAVE gotten a reaction that they probably wanted for PR purposes. To them, a few broken ribs is worth it. Does it do anything to stop or even reduce whaling? Seeing how Norway has actually increased its quota, I think the opposite is true.

In an effort to negotiate, the Japanese offered to keep the cap at 650 minkes, 26 fewer than they killed in 2009 season. The preservationists said no.

 

The ultimate issue is whether whaling will stop ever. Whale meat is a dying market, but I do think that the other reason Japan and other whaling nations continue to push this is because of competition for other fish. It was stated in the ICR that the culling is also about removing the whales which eat the same food source as humans, a sort of marine management (same thing as the seal hunt in Canada etc etc). Realistically, whaling will not stop so long as there are humans around.

[harrym 0]

Yep.... looks like they were stopped in the water and they turned and went for them....

That is exactly my conclusion after viewing vidos from different perspectives.

 

I watched the video and from the angle/camera that I saw the Sea Shepard vessel pulled right in front of the Japanese vessel which then struck the Sea Shepard vessel amidships. Cheers

James

If you view only the video shot from the ramming vessel, you would naturally draw this conclusion. However, if you view other videos, you will see that the Japanese ship made a radical turn to starboard to attack the Ady Gil.

 

Looking at the video again and again, from the Sea Shepherd perspective, one could even think or argue that the whaler was veering to port, and if he had not, would have sheared the Ady Gill in half further aft with far more severe consequences.

Yes, I noticed this too. Actually, the Ady Gil was idling just before the collision (see below). When it became clear to the Ady Gil that they were going to get rammed, the Ady Gil accelerated and moved towards the port side of the approaching Japanese ship (perhaps to dash across the bow of the Japanese ship?). Yes, then the Japanese ship would have rammed the Ady Gil further aft. But the Japanese ship made a last-second dodge to port and sliced off the bow of the Ady Gil. One could also argue that this last-second dodge to port was to line up better on the fleeing Ady Gil.

 

Here is a leaked video showing the final moments of the Ady Gil -- from the Ady Gil's perspective. She was idling.

The video shot from the Japanese vessel is useful because it shows clearly that the Ady Gil was idling in the water as the Japanese ship approached. As the collision became more apparent, the Ady Gil started accelerating seconds before impact.

 

Sure does look like the SM2 skipper made a bee line for the AG.

This is very clear if you watch the telephoto video shot from dead ahead of the Japanese vessel. If the video camera weaves from side to side across the bow of the Japanese ship, it would create an optical illusion that the Japanese ship is veering from side to side even if it were driving forward in a straight line. But that's not what happened.

 

If you study the waves in the foreground of the video you will see that the perspective of the video camera does not change. What changes is the Japanese ship makes a radical turn to starboard to attack the Ady Gil, and a last-second dodge to port to better line up for the kill.

Edited January 9, 2010 by harrym

[DeanB 19]

Referring to what was mentioned in the actual programmes SS have made an impact on whaling in the Southern oceans over the years they have been campaigning by preventing whaling ... Good enough for me. Thats probably more whales saved than a paper protest sat in the bin ... If the Japanese are so proud/stubborn (well mainly just their government from what's been said) then any protest will go ignored so the direct action approach seems the best option.

 

And as Drew has pointed out that no one seems to be concerned about the other whaling nations I will look into it as I do admit I haven't recently... Do these other nations hunt in protected waters like the Japanese though ... I know its still wrong but thats what Sea shepherd (in this series) are arguing about ...

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

[ColinMunro 0]

I've looked at all three videos from available, including some slightly longer versions uploaded on youtube. My tuppence worth.

 

1. There is no indication the that the Bob Barker was stationary, or if it was travelling what its speed and course were, so you can't draw any conclusions about changes in course of the Shonan Maru or the Ady gil from that video.

 

2. The video shot from the perspective of the Shonan Maru: this clearly shows that the Ady Gil is on the stb side of the SM right up until the collision. The AG does not appear to be moving, or moving only slowly. Both vessels are very close but no not appear to be on a collision course.

 

At 6-7 seconds before the collision there is some prop wash from the AG, suggesting she is gently cruising to stay just level with the bows of the SM.

 

At around three seconds before the collision, whilst still on the starboard side of the SM (but v close) the AG can be seen to accelerate sharply (look at the wash) in a direction that will take them straight across the bows of the SM.

 

Did the SM turn to starboard earlier to take it into the path of the AG? Maybe, maybe not - only the ship's log in the investigation will show this. Though it has to be said, the AG was so much faster and more agile its hard to see any whaling skipper considering there any point in changing direction to ram the AG. It would be like a carthorse trying to catch a squirrel.

 

Would the SM have hit the AG if she had not accelerated across her bows? Maybe. I think the video suggests probably not - though both were playing a dangerous game. Give that only the front quarter of the AG was hit, and that she had clearly started accelerating towards the the SM just before the crash then logic would suggest that at worst the AG would have been bumped if she had not accelerated.

 

The Shona Maru is a 500 tonne vessel with a maximum speed of 12kts. Changes in speed and direction don't happen suddenly in a vessel that size. The Ady Gil weighed 13 tonnes, yet its engines generated the same power as those of the 500 tonne Shona Maru. It had a maximum speed of 45kts. Put at its simplest the AG could cruise at nearly four times the speed, change direction faster, stop faster and accelerate far faster than the SM.

 

Does this mean I think the Japanese skipper was not at fault. No, I think the jury is still very much out on that. Does it suggest the skipper of the Ady Gil was at fault? i think its hard to avoid that conclusion.

 

Extended video from Shona Maru http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7gZd0ihZCE

[Andy Morrison 1]

Eric, I'm not sure why that video had to be leaked either. I would've released that right away. It suer makes the crew of the Ady Gil look pretty innocent in the collision.