Purchase Decision

[rrweather 0]

Hi,

 

I posted a similar post on SB a while back. I thought I'd post it here as well, along with what I've found. I also spoke with Mike at H2OPhotopros and gotten his input. I am in the market for a video camera...

 

My fiance and I are getting married in a few months. Instead of hiring a wedding videographer, we are going to have a video camera passed around the reception by the guests. This will let us see the reception through our guests' eyes. As I look into cameras for the wedding, I naturally start looking into housings for the potential camera we end up buying. We are heading to Belize in April, so I would like to pick up the camera and housing by then for the trip. I already own a Canon SX1 and the ikelite housing for it. While I love the camera and I am satisfied with the video quality, the lack of wide angle has me yearning for more. One of my potential plans is to get a strobe for this setup and use it for stills. My brother is a photo-geek and will be diving with me in Belize so having two cameras will be beneficial. My budget for a camera and housing is $3000-ish.

 

I will end up purchasing lights at a later time (few months) for use when I dive locally (NorCal). For the trip to Belize, I want to get the camera, housing, and filter, with an emphasis on wide angle. My main goal is to get the best video quality I can for my money. I am not a professional, nor do I desire to be. That being said, I don't want to drop $4000 on a camera and housing, only to be disappointed by the quality I get when all is said and done. If $4,000 will only buy me marginal quality, then I would rather not buy anything until something better comes along. I'm not looking for cinema quality but I do want the HD quality to be good when I watch videos on my TV. I guess the best way to describe what I want is I don't want the housing and/or lens to take away from the quality of the camera. I realize the limitation of these cameras. I want to use a housing that allows the camera to operate to its fullest potential.

 

I am in the Air Force and I travel 2-3 weeks per month. Occasionally, I travel to a location that includes diving. Additionally, I go on at least one trip every year where diving and photography are included so I want to make sure that I get something that packs well.

 

I've always owned Canon cameras and had good experience with them. These are some potential setups I've come up with:

 

Canon HF S10/100/11

Gates Housing

GP32 Port

This setup is at the upper end of my budget. The housing seems great but is obviously not future proof since it is made for one of the 3 cameras mentioned. The GP32 port is not cheap, especially since it is not glass. I have reservations about the image quality since the GP25 port for Sony is not known for image quality.

 

Canon HFS10/100/11

Bluefin housing

This setup blows my budget to pieces.

 

Sony XR500/520V

Gates housing

GP25 port <---leaves a lot to be desired from what I've read. Mike has posted elsewhere that the WP25 port is necessary to get the best quality out of this setup. Adding the WP25 port pushes this setup to the upper limit of my budget. Housing is likely to not fit any future cameras.

 

Sony XR500/520V

Stingray+ Housing

80-degree lens or,

90-degree fathom lens

This seems like a nice setup. I have read about some issues others are having with the screen on the L&M housings. Also, adding the 90-degree lens puts the setup at my upper limit of the budget. At least the housing is somewhat future-proof with other Sony cameras.

 

Sony XR500/520V

Aquatica Housing

This seems like a nice housing. The price includes the wide angle and macro lenses. The downside is I can not find a single review of the housing, nor can I find any videos taken with the housing to look at quality. I e-mailed Aquatica asking for a video and they do not have any. I would think the limitation with this setup would be the lenses included. Again, would love to see some video. I don't know that I am comfortable dropping $2400 on a housing that no one has commented on or posted video using.

 

Sony XR500/520V

Ikelite Housing

Fathom Lens

The ikelite has the least desirable housing design. The mirror setup would not be my first choice. That being said, the housing is $1200-ish and the fathom lens is $850-ish. For +/- $2000, I would have a housing and fathom lens. Obviously the housing fits only these two cameras so I am not future-proofing myself. At least the housing is only $1200 for something that will one day be obsolete. The audio is disabled with the image reversing circuitry--not a big deal since I don't need to hear myself breathing underwater. Others have posted fogging issues with ikelite housings.

 

My fiance and I are going to purchase a new computer next month as well. It will be setup to process the video so that will not be a limiting factor. I would just like to make sure I am not missing something. I know with the XR500/520V, people either love them or hate them. Mike @ H2O has recommended the camera in other posts. On the other hand, people using them have complained about the white balance. Seems like everyone likes the HF S10/11/100 but the list of affordable housings and wide angle ports is few and far between. This camera and a housing might just be out of my price range for now.

 

I appreciate the help and information anyone can add. Thanks.

 

Randy

Edited February 12, 2010 by rrweather

[petsin 0]

Hi Randy,

 

It was funny to see your post since just yesterday I began uploading to Youtube my first videos taken with one of the setups you are considering, from which you say you would love to see some sample videos... Well, I come to the rescue... But, please consider that I am a beginner in underwater videography. This was my first dive trip with my new Sony HDR-XR500V and the Aquatica Wave HD, plus a set of twins Nocturnal Lights SLX-800i. Previously I have taken thousands of photos though...

 

I have used the standard setup of the HD Wave, i.e. with the macro adapter on. I still need to try the 90 deg. coverage when this is removed, so I can not comment yet about that. But the 70deg coverage of the standard setup gives a very natural perspective so I am not in a hurry to go wider. Still, the zoom may be of help sometimes if you are too far when either you use the zoom or just forget about the shot.

 

About the camera, it must be true what you heard that people love it or hate it... I do love it! I have owned 3 Sony camcorders before, going from Hi8 to Digital8 to MiniDV, and must say that each one was a good step ahead from the previous. But this one was like frog leap compared to the others. I considered seriuosly the Canons for their praised video quality and manual controls (I love Canon still cameras!) but being all things very similar, what tilted the scale heavily was the viewfinder. I think Canon made a big mistake by removing it on most of their best prosumer cameras. Trying to shoot under bright light with the LCD is a pain, not to mention that I need my reading glasses.. while a viewfinder is adjustable to your eyesight. Finally, something I thought was merely sales pitch: the back-illuminated sensor. This makes a huge difference from the other cameras. The low light sensitivity figures don't tell all the truth, this camera is not much more "sensitive" than the others, but the images in low light are so much cleaner than any I have seen. So, instead of stretching the low light gain, Sony has made an almost noiseless moderate low light sensitivity. You get real black in the dark parts, not a dance of noise speckles... I thought this would be great for UW video where you don't have a lot of light.

 

Now, about the Aquatica Wave HD: I feel I made the right choice. I also considered the electronic ones like the LM Stingray of similar price, especially for the posibility of upgrading the camera later. But then, the posibility of having more controls like manual WB and focus, and the lack of electronic controls that can fail, made me decide on the HD Wave. And I really liked it, though I still need to practice a lot and experiment with all the manual controls. I am not worried about the upgradability... I am so pleased with the XR500 that if it ever fails I would buy it again. Also, to have the chance to look directly to the big and high resolution camera LCD is great... and if you bring the IR remote, you can check all your videos at high quality on the boat without removing the camera from the housing.

 

Finally, about the Nocturnal Lights, quite compact and bright for a just below $800 for the pair. I can definitively recommend them, as the rest of the gear.

 

Now, what you wanted: You can find my 5 video clips here http://www.youtube.com/user/petsinag

and here you can see a picture of myself using the gear: http://www.flickr.com/photos/petsin/4366313087/

The setup costed: $900 camera + $2200 housing + $900 lights and arms = $4000 for the whole thing... and I can tell you that the lights are a must!

 

Well, I hope this helps you decide.

 

Peter

[Diverking 0]

Here you have another video taken with the Sony XR500 and the Aquatica:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZHXM3-8tYw

 

I myself have been trying to make a decision for a couple months now. Really tough. The Aquatica is the cheapest of the three, it has the most features and is built to last, but I have no reference as to optics quality. The 2010 L&M Stingray, with the new handles is probably the best all-round option, except peice-wise, that is.

 

Peter: how did the manual white balance work for you? What was the deepest you got a lock? It's hard to judge by your footage.

 

Any input deeply appreciated!

[petsin 0]

Many thanks for your post Juan, the video you edited was very teaching about the effects of the manual white balance. Unfortunately I could not practice much with the manual WB as I had no white screen to point at. In a couple of ocassions I tried manual WB using the white sand in the bottom at around 20m deep, but did not produce good results and obtained images tinted purple... So, without a good white screen, I kept the camera in Auto mode and using always the red filter from the housing (except in the night dive). The 3 clips with turtles were taken between 15 to 25 m. In very shallow waters I removed the red filter. I will make sure I have a white screen for my next dive trip.

 

One important thing if you consider the LM Stingray: the current electronic manual focus from this housing does not work with the XR500/520 from all the info. I could gather. This was a strong no-no for me... May be they have solved it by now (Sony changed the command protocols in this model) but you better make sure you have it if you decide on the LM Stingray.

 

Saludos,

Peter

[rrweather 0]

Peter,

 

Thank you very much for your videos. It's nice to see someone out using the housing and posting videos for us all to see. I am also glad to hear that you like the camera itself. How was the visibility in Cozumel? I will keep an eye out for more of your videos. Thanks again for sharing!

 

Randy

[petsin 0]

How was the visibility in Cozumel?

 

Well, for being January, no too bad. It was windy and one day we could not dive due to bad weather. In deep places visibility was average (around 25m) but in some shallow dives it could drop to 15m due to the choppy conditions. Best times there are May and October... you can get up to 40m...

 

Peter

[BC-SeaDragon 0]

Many thanks for your post Juan, the video you edited was very teaching about the effects of the manual white balance. Unfortunately I could not practice much with the manual WB as I had no white screen to point at. In a couple of ocassions I tried manual WB using the white sand in the bottom at around 20m deep, but did not produce good results and obtained images tinted purple... So, without a good white screen, I kept the camera in Auto mode and using always the red filter from the housing (except in the night dive). The 3 clips with turtles were taken between 15 to 25 m. In very shallow waters I removed the red filter. I will make sure I have a white screen for my next dive trip.

 

One important thing if you consider the LM Stingray: the current electronic manual focus from this housing does not work with the XR500/520 from all the info. I could gather. This was a strong no-no for me... May be they have solved it by now (Sony changed the command protocols in this model) but you better make sure you have it if you decide on the LM Stingray.

 

Saludos,

Peter

 

Peter,

 

Great to walk into this topic seeing as I just posted one in regard to the new L and M housings! I am glad to hear you like the cam I have just purchased the same one and now trying to find a housing to go with it. I think I jumped the gun on buying the camera because I was fairly set on a L and M housing which I have used in the past and loved. Im a rookie though so maybe the electronic controls is what apealed to me but in saying that we did run into problems and had to replace some components over the 4 months I used it. I did hear back from a friend I worked with and one of his students had the 2010 L and M G2 and said that there was problems with the pushbutton white balance and also scrolling through the menu as well, which crushed me to hear! Im looking to spend around the same as what you have and will have a look the housing you selected..

 

Cheers

[Mike L 0]

Here is a link to a video John Ellerbrock of Gates Underwater Products posted this past week, shot with the HF S11 in a Gates Housing, Gp32 and FP32 ports, and Niterider HID lights.

 

Just click on HF S11 Sample Video and Play. HF S11 Sample Video