Selective lighting

[greedo5678 1]

A great article. I hope they're paying you a lot to give away all your trade secrets though Keri!

 

Ryan.

 

I think he can give away his trade secrets, because i think so few of us have the time, dedication and skill to get anything like his shots!

 

So thanks again Keri (and Alex) for sharing your wealth of knowledge to us mere mortals.

 

When my strobes get back from the warranty warehouse i will be giving it a go, but dont hold ur breath for the results!

 

My questions tho is this, if i used a small tripod, say a gorillapod, to hold my strobe and snoot in place (placed nicely on sand or dead rock i will add) do companies make remote uw slave sensors? or would i still need my FO cable connected?

Was thinking this would help aim my snoot at the subject and me to move the camera to frame the subject, or inspect my handy work without moving the now precisely aimed strobe and snoot? would save inaccurate hand holding or trying to move arms tiny millimetres for exact lighting ?

 

Olly

[SlipperyDick 2]

Sorry for the delay in my response... I just returned home this morning from Costa Rica where I didn't have internet access.

 

if i used a small tripod, say a gorillapod, to hold my strobe and snoot in place (placed nicely on sand or dead rock i will add) do companies make remote uw slave sensors? or would i still need my FO cable connected?

 

The two slave sensors that I know of (Ikelite's EV controller and Heinrichs Weikamp's remote slave unit) both need to be connected directly (electrically) to the strobe it is meant to control. The strobe/slave sensor are free from the housing, so once the snooted strobe is pointed at the subject, you can frame the image or shoot at any angle you'd like without disturbing the precision lighting. I only have experience with Ikelite's slave sensor, and it has always worked very reliably for me. In case you missed it, there's actually a photo of one of my snooted slave strobes near the end of the snoot article on DPG.

 

 

Keri

[Alex_Mustard 0]

My questions tho is this, if i used a small tripod, say a gorillapod, to hold my strobe and snoot in place do companies make remote uw slave sensors? or would i still need my FO cable connected?

 

 

The two slave sensors that I know of (Ikelite's EV controller and Heinrichs Weikamp's remote slave unit) both need to be connected directly (electrically) to the strobe it is meant to control. The strobe/slave sensor are free from the housing, so once the snooted strobe is pointed at the subject, you can frame the image or shoot at any angle you'd like without disturbing the precision lighting. I only have experience with Ikelite's slave sensor, and it has always worked very reliably for me. In case you missed it, there's actually a photo of one of my snooted slave strobes near the end of the snoot article on DPG.

 

Couple of quick points.

 

Be aware that underwater plastic gorillapods are buoyant and are not stable underwater with a heavy strobe on top. I hang dive weights under mine to give them stability:

 

 

AFAIK, Ikelite's EV controller only works with Ikelite cables and strobes? And although the Heinrichs RSU can be made to work, it is too sensitive to ambient light for typical day-time conditions. Fine at night. Also be aware that the RSU will not work with all strobes (it does not with my Subtronics - something to do with the strobes not providing enough power down the cable to power the RSU.

 

In many ways, fibre optic triggering can be easier. Several friends of mine have had plenty of success with either a long fibre optic connected directly to the camera or using a fibre optic light collector (which basically acts like a slave sensor) at the end of a short cable (such as the one Inon have for fibre optic cable less external flash with compacts).

 

One final point on triggering remote strobes is to be aware of digital pre-flashes. Many strobes can cope with these - but make sure that the system is working before you go in. I feel it is better to do everything in manual - so there is just one flash for everything to trigger with.

 

Alex

[DuncanS 0]

Couple of quick points.

 

Be aware that underwater plastic gorillapods are buoyant and are not stable underwater with a heavy strobe on top. I hang dive weights under mine to give them stability:

 

 

AFAIK, Ikelite's EV controller only works with Ikelite cables and strobes? And although the Heinrichs RSU can be made to work, it is too sensitive to ambient light for typical day-time conditions. Fine at night. Also be aware that the RSU will not work with all strobes (it does not with my Subtronics - something to do with the strobes not providing enough power down the cable to power the RSU.

 

In many ways, fibre optic triggering can be easier. Several friends of mine have had plenty of success with either a long fibre optic connected directly to the camera or using a fibre optic light collector (which basically acts like a slave sensor) at the end of a short cable (such as the one Inon have for fibre optic cable less external flash with compacts).

 

One final point on triggering remote strobes is to be aware of digital pre-flashes. Many strobes can cope with these - but make sure that the system is working before you go in. I feel it is better to do everything in manual - so there is just one flash for everything to trigger with.

 

Alex

Alex,

 

What is the slave trigger you have shown in the picture?

[Alex_Mustard 0]

What is the slave trigger you have shown in the picture?

 

Custom-made. Not commercially available, I am afraid. I'll certainly bring them with me to Sharm in June.

 

Alex

[yahsemtough 0]

How are you guys mounting the strobes to the gorilla pods? They sure would eliminate the frustration of shooting the snoot on camera. I let out a few choice words when working with snoots in December.

 

Would the Inons not trigger remotely with the cap off? Obviously needing to fire one mounted to the camera as the main strobe? I am guessing some of the issue may be with pointing the main flash to hit both the snooted strobes without lighting the composition.

 

And which Gorillapod seems to be the best to handle the strobe weight. I would assume you do not need much more than the compact or slr version.

 

Todd

[greedo5678 1]

Alex, Keri,

 

Thanks for the info guys, and thanks for the headsup on bouyancy of gorillapods! I will prob start out trying this with a long FO cable to see how i get on and if i like the techinque invest in the slave sensor. I was just really wondering if they made them but it seems again, non-industry standards make it difficult.

 

Olly

[SlipperyDick 2]

Todd - The Gorillapods use a standard 1/4-20 screw which would normally mount directly into your camera body. ULCS makes ball adapters with holes of various thread specs, including one with a 1/4-20 thread... so you simply mate the Gorillapod with the ball adapter, and then the strobe can be clamped to it like normal. The Inons can be triggered remotely with either of the two slave sensors built into them, but, as you mentioned, triggering them without any stray light hitting the subject can be very difficult (or impossible), especially for macro/super macro shots.

 

On my last trip, I used one Gorillpod Focus and one Gorillapod SLR-Zoom. The Focus was more rigid, had longer arms, and was negatively buoyant, so was easier to use than the SLR-Zoom - but I didn't have any problems using either of them at all... likely because my slave sensor and extra arm acted as a counter-balance for the strobe.

 

 

 

Keri

[Edward Lai 36]

Alex, Keri,

 

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. I am really inspired and can't wait to try. Here is my first trial with a home-made snoot:

 

 

 

 

And this one was without the snoot:

 

 

 

I look forward to further improve it for better pin-pointing on the object.

 

Edward Lai

Edited April 5, 2010 by Edward Lai

[Mike L 0]

Great tips Keri. We just got our first shipment of Joby tripods in so I will be constructing my set up now to test with the 7d. Guess I need a trip to Lembeh to really test the waters!

[Alex_Mustard 0]

Nice work, Edward.

 

I think your pictures make the point that the simplest form (and often most effective form of selective lighting) is simply just using one strobe. Once people have bought two, they rarely turn one off! Quite often, less is more.

 

Alex

[yahsemtough 0]

I concur with Alex. I shot single strobe more last trip and much preferred the lighting on a number of situations. Something worth more effort for sure. You can still carry two of course, just shut one off.

 

Cheers

 

Todd

[Edward Lai 36]

Hello Alex,

 

We are so thankful to you and other experts in wetpixel for generously sharing your broad range of knowledge in u/w photography. I have been just used to connect 2 strobes, put them in rather 'standard' positions, and rely everything on TTL for all of my shots. And until quite recently I am starting to become more conscious about better use of light.

 

The picture below would not be successful without using the technique you described in the D700 housing review. By setting the camera pop-up flash to manual and mininum power, setting the Inon strobes to 1/4 power, I had been able to fire 4-5 shots within the short moment the Madarin fishes ascended from the bottom and finished mating.

 

 

 

 

Look forward to hopefully meeting you in the next Dema.

 

Edward

[danielstassen 1]

Hi all,

 

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us Keri. I had a go and made my first snoot. I took some pictures last week of these two frogfish using a snoot. They have been sitting underneath a jetty for a while and couldn't wait to get a picture of them.

 

The yellow one was standing close to the green one both preciously guarding the eggs. Interesting the way the green one was ventilating the eggs with its tail every now and then. They hatched a few days ago. Unfortunately I missed the moment.

 

I used a single YS110 alpha and found that I was limited with the power of the strobe using a snoot. I practically was a few cm away to both frogfish, and still could not use a smaller depth of field than f8, unless I wanted to crank up the ISO to the detriment of the quality. Maybe that is a reason why Keri uses a powerful Ikelite 160 strobe?

 

Well, if it means that I need to buy a new strobe, my snoot will have to rest in a drawer for a while...

 

Cheers

 

Daniel

[SlipperyDick 2]

I couldn't agree with Alex more... the sooner you think outside of the "10-and-2" strobe position box, the sooner you'll come home from dive trips with unique results.

 

Edward - The shots you posted are great! They clearly show how a snoot can be used to illuminate the main subject, while eliminating stray background light. The background in the snooted image is notably darker, making the cuttlefish stand out more.

 

Daniel - Great froggy shots! The shot with eggs is a stunner to me - that's been on my wishlist for YEARS now. Great find, and excellently captured. As for why I use the DS160 for snooting - I use them because I have them! They're my go-to strobes for both wide angle and macro photography, so it follows that I use them for snoot shots as well. It certainly does help that they're quick and very powerful (I was able to properly expose images shot at up to around f25 @ISO200), but with the appropriate snoot design (highly reflective internal surfaces, concentrating the strobe's output), you should be able to get away with a FAR less powerful strobe. So, rather than retiring your snoot to a drawer to gather dust, you might want to try tinkering with your snoot a bit before giving up.

 

Here's a similar froggy image, shot with a single snooted DS160 strobe:

 

Nikon D90, Nauticam housing, Nikon 105mm lens

1/200s, F18, ISO200

 

 

 

 

Keri

[Alex_Mustard 0]

Daniel - Great froggy shots! The shot with eggs is a stunner to me - that's been on my wishlist for YEARS now. Great find, and excellently captured.

 

I am afraid I disagree with Keri here. What a wasted opportunity the green frogfish is. Such great subject matter and the chance was missed by playing around with a snoot and half cutting off the mouth. I am only so honest (because since you knew when the eggs hatched) I am sure you have lots of photos of this fish and its eggs.

 

The key to good lighting is not just to learn a fancy technique and apply it to the next subject you find. But is to choose the technique to match the what you as a photographer want to "say" about the subject - the concept of your image. Subject, camera angle, composition, depth of field, lighting, all working in synergy with the important message of that image. To quote mister adams "there is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept" or something like that.

 

Your two images are a great example of this. The concept behind the lower image is a portrait. Directional light is well suited to a portrait, particularly with a frogfish, accentuating their texture and creating mood. This image the lighting works in synergy with the concept. The other shot is about a behaviour and here the most important part of the concept is what is going on. And here I want to see all that in the frame, not squeezed in at either end. And with lighting that shows it off best. I would expect that your non-snoot images of this frogfish with eggs are much stronger images.

 

Alex

[SlipperyDick 2]

I am afraid I disagree with Keri here.

 

Don't be afraid................. (j/k)

 

I was commenting more on the rare subject matter, than the technical perfection of the image. Although, I do still think it's a good shot (well-exposed, interesting subject, crisp focus on the eye and eggs), but I would've framed and lit it differently, and I agree that a snoot was not necessary.

 

 

The key to good lighting is not just to learn a fancy technique and apply it to the next subject you find. But is to choose the technique to match the what you as a photographer want to "say" about the subject - the concept of your image. Subject, camera angle, composition, depth of field, lighting, all working in synergy with the important message of that image. To quote mister adams "there is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept" or something like that.

 

Well said!

 

 

Keri

[DuncanS 0]

The key to good lighting is not just to learn a fancy technique and apply it to the next subject you find.

 

I think it is a trap we can easily fall into whilst learning a new technique. We spend the whole dive so focused on the nuances of the particular technique that we can easily miss the bigger picture.

Your two images are a great example of this. The concept behind the lower image is a portrait. Directional light is well suited to a portrait, particularly with a frogfish, accentuating their texture and creating mood. This image the lighting works in synergy with the concept. The other shot is about a behaviour and here the most important part of the concept is what is going on. And here I want to see all that in the frame, not squeezed in at either end. And with lighting that shows it off best. I would expect that your non-snoot images of this frogfish with eggs are much stronger images.

And part of learning a new technique is when to use it.

 

It is nice to have discusion on the creative side of capturing photo's rather than just the technical bits.

[danielstassen 1]

Nice shot Keri!

 

I tried to stick sheets of aluminum foil inside, but without success. I thought that aluminum would be reflective, but it doesn't seem to increase the power of the strobe. What do you use inside you snoot?

 

Cheers

 

Daniel

 

PS: Do you sometimes go to Raja Ampat? If yes, then you probably stopped at the pearl farm in Waigeo, in Alyui Bay, and dived on the jetty. I have been working in this farm since January 10, and all the liveboards passing by told us that they find quite often spotfin froggies w/ eggs under the jetty. Well I only found one in 4 months.

[danielstassen 1]

I am afraid I disagree with Keri here. What a wasted opportunity the green frogfish is. Such great subject matter and the chance was missed by playing around with a snoot and half cutting off the mouth. I am only so honest (because since you knew when the eggs hatched) I am sure you have lots of photos of this fish and its eggs.

 

Alex,

 

It might have been a wasted opportunity, but I believe that one must experience to understand. One does not excel without practice. I only took shot of the frogfish w/ a snoot, and I would not have tried without because I wanted to practice the snoot to understand how it works and what kind of results one can get.

 

Your two images are a great example of this. The concept behind the lower image is a portrait. Directional light is well suited to a portrait, particularly with a frogfish, accentuating their texture and creating mood. This image the lighting works in synergy with the concept. The other shot is about a behaviour and here the most important part of the concept is what is going on. And here I want to see all that in the frame, not squeezed in at either end. And with lighting that shows it off best. I would expect that your non-snoot images of this frogfish with eggs are much stronger images.

 

Next time when the frogfish has eggs again, I will try to follow your advice and post the photo.

 

 

Cheers

 

Daniel

[Mike L 0]

Excellent pics all. Edward, I really like the Mandarin fish. Those little buggers are a pain to catch sometimes. Keep up the excellent work on the housings, Im loving my 7d!!

[yahsemtough 0]

Nice shot Keri!

 

I tried to stick sheets of aluminum foil inside, but without success. I thought that aluminum would be reflective, but it doesn't seem to increase the power of the strobe. What do you use inside you snoot?

 

Cheers

 

Daniel

 

PS: Do you sometimes go to Raja Ampat? If yes, then you probably stopped at the pearl farm in Waigeo, in Alyui Bay, and dived on the jetty. I have been working in this farm since January 10, and all the liveboards passing by told us that they find quite often spotfin froggies w/ eggs under the jetty. Well I only found one in 4 months.

 

 

I have been by there myself. A few years back with Larry SMith. The guys came over to the boat with a bag full of pearls and I have shots of them on the table. Truly special to see. Dove the jetty too but did not find frogfish but a great dive none the less. Fire urchin across the bay. Nice place for some dives.

 

Cheers

 

Todd

[greedo5678 1]

Alex, Keri

 

Great comments and i agree with how a technique can be so ingrained in the mind during a dive that you forget what your really looking at and how a different technique may be better suited, but having said that, you have to try these things to get it right!

 

Alex, i remember a shot of yours of a mimic octopus or wonderpus with a disctinct lighting from above? was this a snoot shot? I ask because we have recently discovered a dive site here (s. leyte, Phils) where mimics are common and my shots just have no impact and your image is in my head. The little guys move so fast and erratically i cant believe this was with a well aimed snoot?

 

Olly

[DuncanS 0]

Alex, Keri

 

Great comments and i agree with how a technique can be so ingrained in the mind during a dive that you forget what your really looking at and how a different technique may be better suited, but having said that, you have to try these things to get it right!

 

Alex, i remember a shot of yours of a mimic octopus or wonderpus with a disctinct lighting from above? was this a snoot shot? I ask because we have recently discovered a dive site here (s. leyte, Phils) where mimics are common and my shots just have no impact and your image is in my head. The little guys move so fast and erratically i cant believe this was with a well aimed snoot?

 

Olly

Olly,

 

I seem to recall that it was shot using a torch and high iso...

 

Duncan

[Edward Lai 36]

Excellent pics all. Edward, I really like the Mandarin fish. Those little buggers are a pain to catch sometimes. Keep up the excellent work on the housings, Im loving my 7d!!

 

Hi Mike,

 

Our pleasure that you like our housing. Thank every one of you wetpixel members for the support. Still working hard.....

 

Best regards,

 

Edward