Have 60mm on DX do I need 105 VR

[nortoda1 13]

Hi,

I have been diving with an SLR for the last 3 years so am still learning alot. Based in Irealnd so do most diving in green water with average viz 6 metres. I originally had a D70 in an ike housing and last year have upgraded to a D300 in Sea and Sea with dual DS125's. I normally shoot widen angle mostly the excellent Tok 10-17 and sometimes the Sigma 15FE. For macro I have only ever used the Nikon 60mm D F2.8, sometimes with the 2T diopter.

Heading to the Bahamas in July on a JASA trip and was contemplating buying a Nikon 105VR, but then 2 people I've talked to reckon the 60mm is the best lense for macro even in good viz. Now I'm thinking do I really need this lense as do not have an endless cash supply. Will I actually use this lense in Irish waters? What are its benefits? One problem I do have is that the DS125's are quite bulky to position for macro and was thinking the 105 would give me a little more working distance. Any advice welcome.

 

Darragh

[PRC 2]

Short answer - No - save your money.

 

In poor vis the 105 is as much use a a chocolate teapot due to the mininum lens - subject distance.

 

Don't get me wrong it is a great lens but you won't be using it much at home.

 

Also FWIW you won't be using much in the way of a macro lens at all on that trip - it really is a WA trip.

 

Though I have had some interesting shots with the 60mm for shark portraits.

 

If for no other reason the vis is often not great with the lack of depth and sheer amount of sharks stirring the mix up.

 

See you in July ( I am on the trip also if you are meaning the Wetpixel trip with Alex - third time - just can't get enough ).

 

Feel free to email me via the site below if you need any background info.

 

Paul C

[nortoda1 13]

Cheers for the advive PRC,

I'm not on the Wetpixel trip. Doing a Shark and Dolphin trip 6-15th July with a group of 8 other Irish and an American. Mixture of shooters and fun seeking divers. Have dived the west end of Grand Bahamas before for 3 days but didn't do Tiger beach. Really looking forward to it. Was just thinking might be nice to do a bit of macro at night.

 

 

thanks again

 

Darragh

[PRC 2]

Was just thinking might be nice to do a bit of macro at night

 

Tiger Beach and Macro at night - interesting concept.

 

Suggest you start growing eyes in the back of your head - you don't want to get too involved with the small stuff when you stand a chance of being jumped by a tiger .

 

You will love it - a hell of a trip - but macro it is not - take the 60mm though, it gives a different view but even then pick a day that has good vis.

 

Paul C

[ssra30 0]

depending on how big a macro stuff you are taking picture of and how skittish they are. Personally I use 105VR 90+% of the time for macro shots. I like 60mm for fish type picture, even occasional skittish smaller reef sharks that won't get close to me (say within a meter or two). For macro stuffs, say less than 3-4cm, I prefer 105VR because it gives me better working distance and easier to position the strobes. Lots of wrasse, juvenile fish, gobies you will be really hard pressed to get close enough to them with 60mm in my opinion. I don't think you will be wasting your money on 105VR. Once you are familiar with it, you will know when you need 60mm and when to use 105VR. Both are great lenses.

Edited March 8, 2010 by ssra30

[PRC 2]

Quite agree Boi but the question included :-

 

Based in Irealnd so do most diving in green water with average viz 6 metres

 

Now that is exactly the same as I have here at home in Guernsey.

 

Yes I can use the 105 but with the bad vis it is a real pain to work with - maybe with extension tubes ?

 

But then with the all ready poor ambient light and the loss in an extension tube the autofocus will be difficult.

 

All in all I would not reach for it here at home - elsewhere with good vis and high light levels - OK yes, but not here.

 

[Added]

 

FWIW it is a real nice lens on land - opening up all sorts of macro stuff in the air, so if you do get one and are interested topside it is a great addition.

 

Paul C

Edited March 8, 2010 by PRC

[nortoda1 13]

PRC

took a look at your Bahamas album - excellent stuff. For the WA shots did you just set shutter to 200 and camera to shutter priority?

 

 

SSRA30

like the sound of the 105 for strobe positioning , but what is putting me off is how much I would actually use the lense at home in Ireland. If money was not an issue I would for sure bite the bullet as it is supposed to be a cracking lense, just don't do much topside shooting at the moment.

[PRC 2]

For the WA shots did you just set shutter to 200 and camera to shutter priority?

 

They were all shot manual but essentially any shutter speed slower than 1/180 will risk motion blur, while the sharks may look slow they are anything but.

 

So if blur is not part of your 'artistic intent' then jack the ISO as required or wait until a bit later in the day, I will cheerfully jack the ISO on a D300 to say 400 after that it can be seen (for me anyhow).

 

On the JASA trips I have been on you will pretty much get all of the time in the water that you want or can handle - six hours or more is not at all uncommon.

 

FWIW - I try and stay away from the 17 end of the 10-17, it is easy to be seduced by this lens but unless the vis is gin clear the shots for me lack the bite and impact that you get with the (10mm) wider end.

 

Ask Jim when to go in - he knows the tides, and it does make a difference - alternatively if you are not feeling brave enough to ask then just watch Jim and jump right on in when he does.

 

OH, and the vis is generally the worst right about where Jim is - this area is also the place to be if you want the most 'action' but the trade off is more sand and stuff in the water.

 

_NEVER_ look at Jim's photos - they are generally so good that you will get depressed - he has however done the trip a number of times....

 

Paul C

Edited March 8, 2010 by PRC

[ssra30 0]

Paul, 6m viz does not neccessarily exclude 105VR, I think. The main question will be how big a macro subject you are going to take the picture of. On tiny object, 60mm lens, you may need to be right on top of it where as 105VR may give you a few more inches to work with. We are not talking about differences of 1-2M in working distance here. I dove in some very nasty water in Gulf of Thailand here and 105 definitely has its use in not so great water condition as well. Using 105 with wet diopter also will let you get right on top of the subject with a bit more magnification as well so it can be handy. However, if you dive in 6M viz where most objects are 6 inches or bigger, 105VR probably is pretty useless there. I only wish that 105 can AF as fast as 60mm.

[wyzeguy 0]

I own both the 60mm and the 105mm for my Nikon, and honestly I use each about 50% of the time. If I'm shooting small stuff (nudibranchs, shrimp, hermit crabs, christmas tree anenomes), I MUCH prefer the 105mm because I have a bit more working distance and my strobe placement has some flexibility. If I'm unfamiliar with a site or viz is crap, I take the 60mm.

 

The 60 is far too limiting if you're shooting on substrate that has dramatic topography. For example, if I'm shooting cloud sponges in Canada, the 60mm sucks because I just can't compose correctly and still light the subject. On the other hand, the 105mm takes more skill/practice. Bottom line -- you'll find a use for both

 

Disclosure -- I shoot in cold murky waters of Seattle, so my opinion is biased

[scubacat1 0]

"Have dived the west end of Grand Bahamas before for 3 days but didn't do Tiger beach. Really looking forward to it. Was just thinking might be nice to do a bit of macro at night."

 

 

Darragh, I think I met you on a trip to West End on the Gulfstream Eagle several years ago. ?

 

I use a 105 macro on the D300 a lot. For doing a night dive on say the Sugar Wreck, a 60 macro would be fine if that's all you've got, but I think I rather have the 105, if only for the range and for the really teeny stuff. For limited use, I'm not sure if its worth it to spring for a brand new 105, but if you could pick up a used 105 for a decent price, then I'd definitely go for a 105. You would most likely also need a port extension (there goes more $).

 

just my 2 cents, and most of all enjoy your trip.

 

Kathy

Edited March 13, 2010 by kitty

[davephdv 0]

I have both. I use the 60 about 2/3rds the time. The 105 will get some shots you can't get with the 60. As mentioned the 60 is better when you have bad viz.