CDesperado 0 Posted November 8, 2003 Just curious about something.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CDesperado 0 Posted November 8, 2003 And... one more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art 0 Posted November 8, 2003 Hi there beautiful shots ! where are they from ? I try to compare the colour patterns of Thor amboinensis from different localities (Caribbeanm E Atlantic, IWP, Galapgos etc.), I have a feeling these pantropical species may be cryptic species complexes, other examples are Gnathophyllum americanum and Brachycarpus biunguiculatus cheers Art Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CDesperado 0 Posted November 8, 2003 These are shots from islands around Sulawesei Indonesia, I will post the actual locations later... but hopefully that will help for now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alex_Mustard 0 Posted November 10, 2003 It is an interesting idea that T. amb. might be a species complex. It seems unlikely that there is enough gene flow between the populations of a small, cryptic, site attached shrimp to prevent speciation. However, I think pictures will always be inconclusive (even when they are as clear as this one - I guess this is a big female - males are smaller) because any morphological differences will not necessarily tell you anything about phylogeny. Furthermore their may be as much morphological variation at one location as between oceans? Alex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art 0 Posted November 10, 2003 Alex I agree pictures are inconclusive, otherwise we would describe new species on the basis of pictures alone, without leaving a specimen behind the good thing here is that we wouldn't have to "sacrify" the animals for science on the other side, colour patterns (hence colour pictures) are the first indication that a species, or at least what we believe to be a species, is either more than just one species, or at least that it is polymorphic in colour (and possibly morphology) Thor amboinensis is a bad example, the variations in colour are rather slight, same for morphology, that's why I'll try to get more material and more photos from different parts of its huge distribution range to say more about its status, however, some other species are complexes for sure, e.g., Gnathophyllum americanum, which is also quite variable morphologically, and many "pantropical" Alpheus species the well-known anemone-associated Alpheus armatus was such a "species" in the Caribbean region, before 3 other, closely related cryptic species were described in the 80-ies, all occur in the Caribbean, and 2 or 3 may occur syntopically the differences beetween Lysmata grabhami and L. amboinensis are few, even in colour, but they are clearly distinct species, the well known L. debelius is a complex, with 3 species (2 described: L. splendida and L. debelius s. str. and 1 undescribed with completely red legs) Lysmata wurdemanni, the popular and well-known peppermint shrimp is a species complex, it seems that not many people identified this species correctly, I have a colleague working on this right now, he has 6 or 7 new species in the W Atlantic, mostly from W Caribbean, Florida to Brazil by the way if somebody has photos of Caribbean Lysmata (other than L. grabhami) we would greatly appreciate them life is much more complex than we think ! and this is what makes it wonderful ! Art B) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yahsemtough 0 Posted November 10, 2003 What's that program that translates languages again. This is harder to understand than Sink Boy on a trip in Indonesia. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art 0 Posted November 10, 2003 OK, OK, I know ... I will try to be less technical next time ! Art Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
