NikonosV courses?

[gofigure? 0]

Hi Everyone.

 

Of recent, I've posted some quiries about lens, but for one of my traveling dive buddies, I thought I'd ask the forum of where to look for NikonosV training?

 

I'm not familiar with the NikonosV (though I've looked at getting one for my wife - but I'm ruling that out in favor of digital), so I'm not much help to her. I'm a little more patient than she and she seems a little hard on herself for not having better photo perfection in her eyes. Every trip we go on, she seems to want to absorb as much as she can from each fellow UW photographer, but each has their own opinion on bracketing, lighting, etc, etc, and she seems a little frustrated as I think she's looking for an 'all or nothing' way of trying to do it?

 

She says she has all of Jim Church's books on the Nikonos and has looked them over, though I'm not really sure how much she's studied? Some people don't learn well from a book, and need to be shown from another person to have the concept solidified. Now she is contemplating going to Cathy Church's Nikonos School on G. Cayman for developing her skills and having more immediate feedback and critique to improve upon for each dive there.

 

I'd like to share your all opinion's with her on whether that (going to C. Chruch's school) seems a worthwhile avenue of investment or why not? Or if you might offer some other options of 'schools' or formalized learning to recommend, as I think she really wants a concentrated NikonosV ONLY attention.

 

She's looking to go into the water and set up her shots, then come back, develop and adjust, then dive again and see if improvements were made. That option has always been available on all the liveaboards we do, but whenever she sees her shots (which I don't think are that bad) she always complains about something and then says she's conflicted by the differing advice she gets from each photo person on the different trips and different boats.

 

Each person's eye is different to me, do you think you can offer any help?

 

She's had the nikonosV for about 2 (maybe+) years - just starting in my opinion - but it does add up to be about 170 dives out of her 200 that she's had with it. She used/uses various strobes and does both wide angle and macro. And in general I think her shots to be pretty good.

 

I'm not sure if more patience is really the key, or better diving skills as she jumped into phtotography well before her control in the water was established and I feel everyone can always improve upon that. But no matter my advice to her in that matter, I think she's really looking for (and the only thing that will really sink in) is if an industry professional gives her a course, and comments and critiques her techniques and helps make adjustments. Somethign concentrated for a week long program type of thing.

 

Anyone you would recommend that offers a NikonosV ONLY course in addition to Cathy in Cayman?

 

Please don't say go to digital for more instant results, that's already been discussed with her and she's not willing to do that. I've already asked her to start with the basic of photography in general, but she seems to think she's beyond that and wants the NikonosV training specificly.

 

(sorry for being so winded here - bad habit I have - just trying to give a better background without you all having met her)

 

Thanks so much for anything you can offer. I, as always appreciate your help so very much!

[scubamarli 5]

I would recommend looking into a Photographic Society (underwater, if one is in your locale), as they often have critiques which are a great way to improve shots. Composition is the major thing that needsa improvement once the technical stuff is o.k. The other is shooting regularly...difficult if you don't dive locally. The more you shoot, the better you get, in my humble opinion.

 

Cheers,

Marli......still on the Nikonos V

[gofigure? 0]

Marli,

 

Would most photographic societies have underwater photography experts? Or is it simply a matter of the critique being applied to photography composition, technical savy, etc, in general, that they help with?

 

I had asked that she simply go to even something such as a major camera shop that offers classes, so as to improve her overall skills and knowledge as a photographer on the whole. I know it's a different medium, but wouldn't the benefit of learning more and developing your shots on land also be quite helpful underwater? Then it might be a matter of adjustment to the different medium/environment when transferring to underwater?

 

I'm not sure I understand her impatience? Perhaps it's the cost involved (or in her eyes - wasted) on film? I'm not sure if most active photographers feel that way? Seems to me, that you can take 100 shots of the exact same subject in the same place and each picture may be different. Not every picture is 'perfect' the way you would want. Just as when I was a chef, even after formal training, each dish (though always prepared the same way) came out with it's own signature, slightly different each and every time. I think that's part of the fun that helps make diving and photography such an exciting set of ingredients together.

 

Oh, the caffeine has kicked in yet, I'm rambling again. Thank you for the suggestion, and I'll be sure to pass it along. It's something I had not thought of.

[scubamarli 5]

Hi again,

 

I suggest the society route as it's really helpful to hear an unbiased judgement, if the judging is done with comments only, by trained judges. I often see contests judged by celebrity type judges, and frankly, have seen the same wide angle girl with cleavage and dive light shot (I know, guys, what's wrong with THAT???!!) rewarded time and again. A trained judge values focus, composition and technical considerations more than the rareness of the shot or the expense it took to get to the place it was taken.

Although pros aren't involved as much due to their incredibly busy lives, I've had to chance to brainstorm, compare notes and go diving with some incredibly accomplished photographers from whom I'm indebted for their ideas and suggestions. These photographers do it because they're passionate, and not tied to following advertiser's and publisher's needs.

As for her impatience, she's probably a perfectionist, like most artists! In the long run, that tendency may help her to persevere and get some really great shots.

She may not ever be satisfied with her shots if she is constantly comparing to the pros. I remember how devastated one of members was upon discovering she didn't win our International Photo Contest (she'd only been shooting 6 months). Some people simply place higher expectations on themselves. Give it five years if you're only shooting while on holiday.

She might want to do self-assignments on a limited topic, say, this dive I'm only going to shoot nudibranchs, or anemones. Try to pre-visualize what she wants to achieve, and try different angles, for example.

If she's frustrated with not getting fish shots....well, learn to acknowledge the system's strengths and weaknesses. You just ain't gonna get too many fish faces with a framer, but it is possible.

Hang in there!

Marli

[gofigure? 0]

marli,

 

Sounds really good, thanks for the advice and I'll pass it along. I think in those words and coming from someone with experience (unlike me) it should help quite a bit. She does seem to take multiple subject shots on each dive, though she's limited by the lens in use. Concentration on one subject (or relatively small number) style with different approaches is a good idea. I've also suggested using a slate (or similiar tool) to mark the camera/strobe/angle settings made for each shot to help in remembering later just what was done. She's said in the past that it's hard to remember what you did for each shot, so perhaps that would help? She's much better than she thinks she is, but all of us overly critique ourselves when we're trying to get something just perfect. I think her enthusiasm looks to be strong for a long time, I would just like her to see more enjoyment in her results. Thanks for such much of your time and help!

[scorpio_fish 5]

Sounds like a good candidate for Cathy Church's course. Another option is Stephen Frink's course in Florida.

 

I doubt it is a matter of equipment/lenses, etc. It is in the art of seeing. Working with a teacher one on one or in a small group can be a real leap forward.

 

I reached a real block on my wide angle work. I took a land course from a well known photo guru. It took one long field session to get over a mental hump. It was like a light bulb went off in my head. It got me pretty pumped to go underwater and apply the same thought processes.

 

Listening to too many experts can get you nowhere, like getting too much help with my golf swing. Most live aboard photo pros aren't that great. It takes another set of skills to teach it, too.

 

She should take the course.