7D for uw video rig

[hughmoore 0]

I've had a 7D literally on all day and never had a problem with the warning alert coming on while it was in a housing. I have had a problem topside though when shooting for prolonged periods in very warm conditions and my 7D has been sent back to Canon twice since I bought it with sensor problems. Personally I think I was just unlucky but both times the guy in the shop said it was sensor burn..... Having said that there are other issues higher up on the ladder that would effect my decision on using a 7D underwater. Hope this helps

 

Cheers, Simon

 

Hi Simon, Ive started underwater vidoe again and Im looking to upgrade my Sony Tr 950 3ccd to DSLR, from what I have read, the 7D looks like the way to go, especially with the Tokina 10-17 lens. I cant see a better value alternative, but interested in your comments as to why you wouldnt use the 7D underwater?

 

Thanks

 

 

Hugh

[SimonSpear 65]

Hi Simon, Ive started underwater vidoe again and Im looking to upgrade my Sony Tr 950 3ccd to DSLR, from what I have read, the 7D looks like the way to go, especially with the Tokina 10-17 lens. I cant see a better value alternative, but interested in your comments as to why you wouldnt use the 7D underwater?

 

Thanks

 

 

Hugh

 

Hiya Hugh

 

Well the reasons are long and complicated I'm afraid! I'm not anti DSLR's for video at all - in fact I'm using the 7D a lot right now for topside shooting. I've also used it underwater over the summer and I was really looking forward to using it in the Red Sea this autumn until a broken foot ended my diving for this year (but that's another story!).

 

I think the main issue is that despite the fact that you can get some great results from the current crop of DSLR's, they are NOT camcorders and as such they have many flaws. I often feel like I'm fighting against the 7D to get the results I need, rather than it helping me and making things easier for me as a good set up should.

 

I guess I'm guilty of looking for champagne quality at beer money! If someone asked me if I'd rather be shooting underwater with an EX1R or one of those new Canon XF cameras then I'd be a fool to say that I wouldn't, but an EX1R underwater will cost probably three times the price and use up all your luggage allowance if you travel. You then have to compare that to a 7D with housing which you can probably smuggle on as hand luggage and get somewhat comparable results if you get it just right (IF being the main word there!).

 

I did a fairly detailed review of a Hugyfot housing awhile back that is posted on here. Have a look for that and you'll be able to maybe get a better understanding of where I'm coming from. Although I was fairly critical of the Hugyfot I think most of the general comments are valid for any DSLR housing.

 

Hope this helps

 

Cheers, Simon

[hughmoore 0]

Hiya Hugh

 

Well the reasons are long and complicated I'm afraid! I'm not anti DSLR's for video at all - in fact I'm using the 7D a lot right now for topside shooting. I've also used it underwater over the summer and I was really looking forward to using it in the Red Sea this autumn until a broken foot ended my diving for this year (but that's another story!).

 

I think the main issue is that despite the fact that you can get some great results from the current crop of DSLR's, they are NOT camcorders and as such they have many flaws. I often feel like I'm fighting against the 7D to get the results I need, rather than it helping me and making things easier for me as a good set up should.

 

I guess I'm guilty of looking for champagne quality at beer money! If someone asked me if I'd rather be shooting underwater with an EX1R or one of those new Canon XF cameras then I'd be a fool to say that I wouldn't, but an EX1R underwater will cost probably three times the price and use up all your luggage allowance if you travel. You then have to compare that to a 7D with housing which you can probably smuggle on as hand luggage and get somewhat comparable results if you get it just right (IF being the main word there!).

 

I did a fairly detailed review of a Hugyfot housing awhile back that is posted on here. Have a look for that and you'll be able to maybe get a better understanding of where I'm coming from. Although I was fairly critical of the Hugyfot I think most of the general comments are valid for any DSLR housing.

 

Hope this helps

 

Cheers, Simon

 

Broken foot is nothing, I broke my leg in four places two years ago when my BMW 1150 kicked me off. Hope it your foot heals soon, mine is all good now and am back in the caves, which has got me interested in video again.

 

Generally, how long does the battery last? Reading your report, seems like only last one dive?

 

Thanks for the info.

Edited October 11, 2010 by hughmoore

[SimonSpear 65]

Haha yeah broken foot is nothing! I did ask the consultant if he could strap it up and send me out again but he looked kind of strangely at me then sent me down to the plaster room It's pretty good now - 5 weeks on and I'm getting around without crutches at least.

 

I found the 7D battery life really depends on how long you shoot for and how long therefore that the liveview is on. If you were somewhere like Lembeh I could maybe see the battery only lasting a single dive, but for normal shooting you should be able to get a couple of dives out of it.

 

Cheers, Simon

[jonny shaw 16]

Batteries on the 7D definitely don't last as well as video cam batteries. If the camera is running the whole time on a shoot a battery will only last an hour and a half max. Also I have 4 batteries all Canon and all less then 3 months old and two of them definitely are worse than the others, so obviously varies between batts

[Nick Hope 151]

Here's a woolly question... Would it be a fair summary to say that in general you can get more useable/good shots out of an EX1R (or similar) than a 7D (or similar) during a dive, but if you really nail a shot with the 7D then the result can be more stunning?

[Drew 0]

Nick, with the EX1R or XF3xx series, you get better resolution and with the XF3xx, better color resolution as well (but no housing announced yet).

The ViDSLR phenomenon has grown at such a fast pace that people fail to differentiate the pros and cons. For underwater wide and super wide shots, the resolution (or lack thereof) may affect sharpness and clarity. It doesn't really matter if you shoot in 5m viz and everything is closer, because close up, even Hi8 looks nice. It is precisely because of the lower resolution, "non-video" and "soft" look that cinematographers want. And it may not be what you want. For my personal taste, the softness can be nice and also a pain because you can't get good resolution on detail and everything looks like it's gone through a soft filter. If it's wide angle detail the shooter is after, the ViDSLR aren't the best choice for the money.

[SimonSpear 65]

Here's a woolly question... Would it be a fair summary to say that in general you can get more useable/good shots out of an EX1R (or similar) than a 7D (or similar) during a dive, but if you really nail a shot with the 7D then the result can be more stunning?

 

I think that summary is pretty good Nick, although I wouldn't necessarily say that the 7D can be more 'stunning', just different and very nice in its own unique way.

[Steve Douglas 16]

That's the problem that many housing manufacturers don't understand. Topside shooters pick and choose whatever the latest cam is that they want. Therefore, the popularity of the cam means more profits to the cam manufactur. However, IMHO, for underwater videographers it is just the opposite. UW folk have to wait a year or more before, and if, a housing is made for the cam of their choice. Often, by the time a housing is made, several models of cams have come and gone. If the housing makers would identify a good cam that they think uw shooters would want when the cam came out, people would buy both the housing and cam. For UW, it is the housing that pushes cam sales...the opposite of topside shooters. For the underwater shooter it is the housing availability that creates the legs for camcorder purchase and not whether the Sony EX1 is or isn't better than the Canon equivalent. While I am not a great fan of JVC and have never owned one, the HM100 produces great footage but neither L & M, Gates or Amphibico make housings for it, otherwise uw shooters would have bought it. The same goes for the Panasonic AG -HMC40.

 

Oh well,

Steve

Edited October 14, 2010 by steve

[jonny shaw 16]

I know your pain Steve, I actually worked with a guy recently and he has a custom housing which fitted his Song HDCAM camera, now fits his RED and will also fit Epic when released.... It is a cylindrical design with servos that control gears etc.... He reckons it can be customised to fit any camera.... It wasn't cheap by any means but what a feeling having one housing that will accommodate pretty much any camera.

[Drew 0]

I know your pain Steve, I actually worked with a guy recently and he has a custom housing which fitted his Song HDCAM camera, now fits his RED and will also fit Epic when released.... It is a cylindrical design with servos that control gears etc.... He reckons it can be customised to fit any camera.... It wasn't cheap by any means but what a feeling having one housing that will accommodate pretty much any camera.

 

Having a custom big tube that can be refitted to fit any camera is nice. But custom parts can cause for some miserable failures on location. I know a custom housing for a F900R which had controls that snapped from breaking twice, using up the spare, and there were no spares from the manufacturer because it was a custom part.

 

Housing manufacturers decide on cameras based on projected sales and competition. I'm pretty sure that if 50 people wrote any one manufacturer asking for a housing, they'd make one for it.

[Steve Douglas 16]

Drew, I remember going up to the Gates offices when the HM100 came out and asked whether they would make a housing for it and "nope" not in their plans. But if they had, I bet there would have been a ton of people buying the cam. I also contacted L & M and they just don't seem to be interested in making a housing for anything other than entry level cams. At least Gates does make housings for hi end cams as well as entry level but not much for the middle level lke the aforementioned Panasonic and JVC. While you may be right that if people actually called these manufacturers about a housing for a cam, perhaps they would make one but most people don't call which doesn't mean that they don't wish one were available.

Personally, my very first housing was a cylindrical housing from Aqua Video for an 8mm Minolta camcorder. This was sometime in the 80's. I had no problems with it but I knew nothing in those days. What? I need video lights? Does anyone even make video lights? At that time only UK made a ultra heavy, square battery light called the Aqua Sun with a burn time of 20 minutes. It wasn't even rechargeable.

Things have evolved a great deal since then but not everyone can afford the big EX3 and Reds and many don't want to waste time with the tiny Sony and Canon 1 CMOS chipped AVCHD cams like the HFS11 and stuff like that. If I was wanting to go that route I could just buy a GoPRO HERO HD cam and an Eye of Mine housing.

It would be nice to have some kind of middle ground availability with housings and ports at a reasonable price. Maybe I am just crying in my soup since I have retired and am not pulling in the money I used to.

Steve

[ronscuba 4]

The Sony FX1 had a pretty good run. I know many are still using it.

 

What's a realistic lifespan for an UW video rig. ? How long do we want our systems to last to be satisfied with our investment ? I guess the answer is different for each us, especially the pro vs. hobbyist.

Edited October 18, 2010 by ronscuba

[Drew 0]

The Sony FX1 had a pretty good run. I know many are still using it.

 

What's a realistic lifespan for an UW video rig. ? How long do we want our systems to last to be satisfied with our investment ? I guess the answer is different for each us, especially the pro vs. hobbyist.

Well, most electronics manufacturers stop supporting their products after 7 years. And electronics will break down due to heat etc. So by the manufacturers definition, a lifespan of any product should be about 7 years.

For Pros it's about ROI. Someone splashing 50k on a Red One is anticipating being able to make it back with additional due to the camera. That's why you see many pro shooters holding on to their F900Rs. It's still an accepted standard for all broadcast work and even some feature work. I doubt that'll change for a while.

There's nothing inherently wrong with any camera for shooting professionally or for hobbyists. The lifespan should be as long as it continues to work. This is especially true for non-pros because there's no need to sell the content. It's partially marketing to the human avarice, using upgrade fever to push the obsolescence of older equipment. Of course another issue is standard changes, like SD to HD. Kinda hard to shoot with an SD camera when HD brings out so much more.